Buffalo Bills 2018-2019

[Hoss]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Who ***** cares about draft position?! When has it ever mattered?

Every year.

[SwampD]

Just now, Hoss said:

Every year.

never

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

No but many people are still doubting his abilities when those things are in place 

Right?  I don't see a lot of people dumping on the kid.

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

Does anyone here spend any time at Two Bills Drive?

 

 

 

I actively avoid it.  It's toxic and full of people who don't know anything.

[...]

2 hours ago, FuhrUrsinne said:

Was anyone really expecting to feel this way about Josh Allen after playing in 8 NFL games with one of the worst supporting casts of OL, WR, TE, and RB we've ever seen? 

I can't see how Allen is even on the radar of the critics of this team.  

2 hours ago, inkman said:

No but many people are still doubting his abilities when those things are in place 

If the OL was real and even just a middling NFL one, maybe I could see how a person can imagine what Allen would be like with a complete middling offense to work with.  But right now it's like trying to perceive Millet-like realism in a Jackson Pollock piece.  

Sorry, there isn't any sexual innuendo in this post.  

Here, let me add this...

 

[Kruppstahl]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Right?  I don't see a lot of people dumping on the kid.

I actively avoid it.  It's toxic and full of people who don't know anything.

That is a good way to describe it: toxic.  It really is, and the IQ of the forum in general is pretty darned low.  

I always feel like I need a shower after spending some time there.

 

 

[North Buffalo]

7 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Does anyone here spend any time at Two Bills Drive?

The Kool Aid drinkers that predominate that forum make it pretty tough to take for me.  The conventional wisdom today seems to be that Josh Allen had some type of statement game.

IMO he showed very little of the skills he will need if he is going to remain in the league long term.

He simply doesn't read defenses and tends to throw when he sees someone who is wide open.  Tyrod did the same thing.

He has major accuracy issues and is very quick to forget about passing entirely and start running. 

Defenses will take that away from him eventually, and it's not game winning QB play even if they don't.

I think he a natural competitor and has a lot of intangibles in his favor, but he needs to do a lot of things he is not currently doing if he is going to survive.  

 

 

Yeh can't spend much time over there because folks tend to be so absolutist and critical of a point of view.  Generally like your take though I don't totally agree with Allen not having the skills he needs... imo he just that he needs to be more consistent with them and then develop additional ones you describe.  Right now, just can't stand McSlappy, don't think he has a clue on offense and while Diabol may be effective he needs some tools... and maybe Allen isn't that answer..., but crap the offense minus an aging Shady is a crap show.

Edited December 3, 2018 by North Buffalo

[North Buffalo]

12 hours ago, Samson's Flow said:

He didn't look like a typical pocket assassin like Brady or Manning, but he was the only reason why the offense did anything today. Yes he missed some throws, but it was a do everything, carry the offense in your back type of game

He did get held all game, including a blatant one on the last Miami TD. I was really surprised that one wasn't called to take away the stills catch.

Could be things escalated from asking about the not calls

Thinking the Refs needs to be roundly booed every chance they speak next home game... getting stupid the one sideness... can't watch all the holding on oline when it is called so one sided or not called... combined with all the useless timeouts and annoying ads, I hardly watch football anymore. Mostly highlights...

[nfreeman]

I thought Allen looked pretty good yesterday.  He made quite a few great plays -- both passing and running.  If he hadn't overthrown one of the WRs on the deep post with about 7 min left, or if Clay had been able to make the catch on the last play (admittedly a tough catch but one that a highly-paid TE probably should make), it would've been a great win for him and the team. 

[shrader]

7 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

That is a good way to describe it: toxic.  It really is, and the IQ of the forum in general is pretty darned low.  

I always feel like I need a shower after spending some time there.

There are plenty of good posters, you just have to be able to weed through a lot of garbage to find it.  I haven't actually clicked on the Bills forum in probably about a year at this point, so those weeds must be as tall as a house.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Beane told Allen to hang in there they are going to get him some help.

How about a new GM? How about a new O Line, aTE who can catch, real WRs and a real RB.

[Samson's Flow]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Beane told Allen to hang in there they are going to get him some help.

How about a new GM? How about a new O Line, aTE who can catch, real WRs and a real RB.

I mean what else is he supposed to say? Any reasonable football person could have told you the offense would be a ***** show before the season started given the personnel losses.

[Hoss]

Having gone back and watched some more of the game I do think yesterday was full of some positives from Allen. Still WAY too many brutal moments that have nothing to do with the lack of talent around him for me to get really excited but definitely good to see.

 

 

[TrueBlueGED]

18 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I kinda liked Allen's game. I don't think it was "wow that is some good NFL quarterbacking." But I had fun. He made plenty of throws I was really happy to see him make. Impressive throws. He missed plenty of throws he can't miss. But he's better than he was against San Diego by a fair margin and I'm at least excited to try and get some weapons around him. If the unforgivable stuff isn't gone by the end of next season, then we'll try again. 

I think this is where I landed. His game as fun, which shouldn't be confused with good. But it's not nothin'. 

[Samson's Flow]

I do think that some of the "bad" throws were a result of Allen feeling like he had to run for his life on every play, and making throws on the run without his feet set. That certainly wasn't all of the bad throws, but it was a factor - especially on the game ending throw to Clay. Resolving the O line issues would go a long way to correcting that need to escape immediately.

[TrueBlueGED]

32 minutes ago, Samson's Flow said:

I mean what else is he supposed to say? Any reasonable football person could have told you the offense would be a ***** show before the season started given the personnel losses.

If only there was some sort of way to compensate for personnel losses. Some sort of "draft" or "free agency" if you will. 

[Samson's Flow]

Just now, TrueBlueGED said:

If only there was some sort of way to compensate for personnel losses. Some sort of "draft" or "free agency" if you will. 

Oh no doubt. My post was by no means an exoneration of Beane. He made big talent mistakes this offseason.

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, Samson's Flow said:

Oh no doubt. My post was by no means an exoneration of Beane. He made big talent mistakes this offseason.

Ah, gotcha. Carry on. 

[TrueBlueGED]

11 minutes ago, Samson's Flow said:

I do think that some of the "bad" throws were a result of Allen feeling like he had to run for his life on every play, and making throws on the run without his feet set. That certainly wasn't all of the bad throws, but it was a factor - especially on the game ending throw to Clay. Resolving the O line issues would go a long way to correcting that need to escape immediately.

I really don't think he was running for his life at all. A lot of the plays he breaks the pocket on he does so of his own volition, not because he's facing any pressure. It's sort of like how Tyrod used to run himself into sacks because he wasn't good enough at manipulating the pocket. Allen is a rookie, so obviously you hope he gets better at it, but it's definitely not all on the line. 

[Samson's Flow]

5 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I really don't think he was running for his life at all. A lot of the plays he breaks the pocket on he does so of his own volition, not because he's facing any pressure. It's sort of like how Tyrod used to run himself into sacks because he wasn't good enough at manipulating the pocket. Allen is a rookie, so obviously you hope he gets better at it, but it's definitely not all on the line. 

Fair point. It is one of the things that really concerns me, as he is playing exactly the way he did in Wyoming - trying to do everything himself. I don't think yesterday's game is sustainable in the NFL.

[JJFIVEOH]

19 hours ago, Eleven said:

Yep.  Playing behind that "line" and with Robert Foster as his best receiver?  He's ok.  The team is a mess.  And I fear that It won''t get better for him.

They went from Eric Wood to hey, who can snap a ball?  2 other OL are gone.  The receivers are either garbage (KB) or learning (ZJ, RF).

The defense is going to lose a major contributor in January, because Williams, who can block three men at once (!) will retire.

I didn't want Taylor to leave, and I wanted the Bills to draft Rosen, not Allen, but this bad season is hardly on Allen's shoulders.

I agree 100%. And it pains me to see others criticize him for what he's done. He's a rookie with no talent around him. QB's don't just come into the league and dominate off the bat. Every great current aging QB spent time either on the bench, or a couple of years losing and learning from their mistakes. Guys like Mahomes are exceptions to the rule. 

[pi2000]

Allen showed a high compete level, his desire to win is obvious.    Haven't seen that from a Bill's QB since Kelly.     He almost singlehandedly willed his team to a win, that's a great sign, and gives me faith that he'll improve his weaknesses as he develops.   

All he talked about in the post-game presser was about the plays he wanted back, he took ownership, and he looked really upset about the loss... he's a gamer.     I'd be concerned if he blew it off and gave canned boilerplate answers, but he didn't.      

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don’t know if Allen is going to be a great QB or even a good one long term, but he has something that is great longterm and that is a competitive spirit that motivates him and the players around him.  That type of leadership is critical if they are going to turn this around.

i also think that getting him a real O Line will go a long way toward helping him settle in to being a pocket passer and a more accurate thrower.

He reminds me of Jim Kelly and Brett Farve in a lot of ways, but this guy is a much much better runner.

[Weave]

I watched a bit less than half of the game.  My take away during the portions I watched was, Allen is not timid like Tyrod, and seems to have some success at making things happen.  And after thinking about it while catching up on this thread it occurred to me that he probably most reminds me of Doug Flutie.

[That Aud Smell]

32 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don’t know if Allen is going to be a great QB or even a good one long term, but he has something that is great longterm and that is a competitive spirit that motivates him and the players around him.  That type of leadership is critical if they are going to turn this around.

Do agree with this. It's pretty remarkable. McCoy says it all the time, and I credit: The guy is just a baller.

I'm still very much unsure whether he can be a good NFL quarterback over time. If it does not come together for him, it will not be for lack of effort.

30 minutes ago, Weave said:

And after thinking about it while catching up on this thread it occurred to me that he probably most reminds me of Doug Flutie.

Interesting. He's certainly absurdly competitive and inherently self-confident like Flutie.

[Hoss]

One of the huge differences that seems to be more and more evident over the last few years in QB success is coaching.

The three most obvious situations are with the LA Rams, Philadelphia Eagles and Indianapolis Colts.

Jared Goff looked bad as a rookie. The team fires Jeff Fisher and brings in Sean McVay who was credited with making something out of Washington's QBs for a few years. Goff has turned into a star under McVay.

With Indy and Philly it's intertwined. Doug Pederson got a ton of credit for Carson Wentz and his MVP season last year (he would've won had he not got hurt). Eventually they went on to win the Super Bowl getting stellar play from Nick Foles. In Indy Andrew Luck had battled injuries and some not-so-impressive play for several years. Frank Reich leaves Philly to lead Luck and Indy. Now Luck is playing at a near-MVP level and Wentz & Foles both took steps back along with the Eagles as a team.

This is all kind of obvious, but I think it's a bigger emphasis than we think. Everyone gives Andy Reid credit with Mahomes.

So do we believe McDermott and Daboll are the right fit for Allen? I'm not confident in McDermott. I've been indifferent with some positive vibes with Daboll. I've seen his play calling put the team in position to win and execution simply fail. At some point if you're consistently failing to execute a gameplan than the gameplan isn't right for that squad, but that's hard to judge with such a talentless group.

Allen's development will be more on the coaching staff than anything else once at least a decent level of talent is around him.