Buffalo Bills 2018-2019

[Gramps]

Here is my issue. Allen looks inaccurate and the stats show that. Jackson looks more accurate. The stats kinda show that. I want a guy who has thrown more. I want that experience. 

 

Jackson: 839 passes in the last 2 years (attempted)

Allen: 643 passes in the last 2 years (attempted)

 

Odd that the "running QB" has thrown 24% more passes than the pocket guy. 

More stats. Allen only threw 16td passes to 6 interceptions last year, a difference of 10.  Jackson throw 27 TD passes with 10 interceptions (4 in his bowl game) for a difference of 17. 

Passing yards a game:

Allen - 228.8 was his most in college (2016)

Jackson - 281.5 was his most (2017)

 

Completion percentage:

Allen -

2016: 56%

2017: 56.3%

 

Jackson - 

2016: 56.2%

2017: 59.1%

 

Yards a season:

Allen - 

2016: 3203

2017: 1812

 

Jackson - 

2016: 3543

2017: 3660

 

Longest pass:

Allen - 

2016: 54

2017: 47

 

Jackson - 

2016: 74

2017: 78

 

Games played:

Allen - 25 games (I am not counting his sophomore year where he threw 6 passes in 2 games)

Jackson - 38 games

 

Highlights: Allen

 

Jackson

 

I just want to add that we could have done this with Rudolph too. I just was lazy and didn't add his stats. Rudolph has potential too. 

 

Thanks for taking the time for the breakout, but none of those stats is a predictor for how Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, or anyone else will do at the pro level. I hear folks saying Daboll wants a "pure passer".  What does that mean exactly ? Does it mean someone with a great arm that can make any throw or does it mean the QB with the highest college completion %. 

 

I stand by the law of precedent in Super Bowl champions. In the last 20 years, all pocket passers with the exception of Russell Wilson.

 

Brady, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Elway, Warner, Brees, and most recently Foles all pocket passers.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Gramps

[WildCard]

Thanks for taking the time for the breakout, but none of those stats is a predictor for how Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, or anyone else will do at the pro level. I hear folks saying Daboll wants a "pure passer".  What does that mean exactly ? Does it mean someone with a great arm that can make any throw or does it mean the QB with the highest college completion %. 

 

I stand by the law of precedent in Super Bowl champions. In the last 20 years, all pocket passers with the exception of Russell Wilson. Brady, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Elway, Warner, Brees, and most recently Foles. 

What?

[SwampD]

Thanks for taking the time for the breakout, but none of those stats is a predictor for how Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, or anyone else will do at the pro level. I hear folks saying Daboll wants a "pure passer". What does that mean exactly ? Does it mean someone with a great arm that can make any throw or does it mean the QB with the highest college completion %.

 

I stand by the law of precedent in Super Bowl champions. In the last 20 years, all pocket passers with the exception of Russell Wilson. Brady, Roethlisberger, both Mannings, Elway, Warner, Brees, and most recently Foles.

If Wilson isn't a pocket passer then neither is Roethlesberger. They both extend plays with their feet the same way.

 

I don't know nothin from nothing when it come to college football, but from what I've seen I'd take Jackson over Allen.

[LGR4GM]

I changed highlights videos because the 2nd Jackson one I found actually shows him throwing more which he did. He throws more than runs. 

 

Allen isn't a pocket passer. Not purely. He rolls out a lot. Allen also never seems to set his feet. He is always doing something else and then throws it. Jackson even when he rolls out or is flushed, head is up and he sets and throws.  There are just more things fundamentally sound with Lamar.  Allen is all potential that frankly I am not sure he will ever even approach. Canon arm. Prototypical size. Accuracy and mechanics questions. 

Here is just Jackson throwing. It just looks right. Allen doesn't to me and idk what I am seeing but something just seems off when I watch Allen throw and it doesn't when I watch Jackson. 

I just want to add, I personally think we should take Mayfield and if he isn't there, probably trade back in the first and take Rudolph. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[WildCard]

I just want to add, I personally think we should take Mayfield and if he isn't there, probably trade back in the first and take Rudolph. 

My man

 

WGR keeps reporting from other sources that the Bills really want Rosen

[Gramps]

Big time Lamar threw 4 interceptions in the Taxslayer Bowl. 

 

Allen will go higher in the draft than Jackson - no doubt in my mind. 

If Wilson isn't a pocket passer then neither is Roethlesberger. They both extend plays with their feet the same way.

I don't know nothin from nothing when it come to college football, but from what I've seen I'd take Jackson over Allen.

 

No comparison - the Seahawks designed plays around Wilson's mobility. Not the case for the Steelers.

[LGR4GM]

Big time Lamar threw 4 interceptions in the Taxslayer Bowl. 

 

Allen will go higher in the draft than Jackson - no doubt in my mind. 

 

No comparison - the Seahawks designed plays around Wilson's mobility. Not the case for the Steelers.

Okay and? I already said that. He threw 10 interceptions all year. 4 came in 1 game. Allen threw 6 total. SO if you remove the Bowl Game they threw the exact same number of interceptions but one of them threw 11 more TDS. 

 

 

 

 

Mason Rudolph, 6'5" 230lbs

Comp %

2015 - 62.3%

2016 - 63.4%

2017 - 65%

 

Completions

2015 - 264

2016 - 284

2017 - 318

 

Yards

2015 - 3770

2016 - 4091

2017 - 4904

 

Longest

2015 - 82

2016 - 91

2017 - 86

 

Yrds per Game

2015 - 290

2016 - 314.7

2017 - 377.2

 

Tds to interceptions

2015 - 21/9

2016 - 28/4

2017 - 37/9

 

Highlights

Edited February 15, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[WildCard]

Big time Lamar threw 4 interceptions in the Taxslayer Bowl. 

 

Allen will go higher in the draft than Jackson - no doubt in my mind. 

 

No comparison - the Seahawks designed plays around Wilson's mobility. Not the case for the Steelers.

That doesn't make them right though

 

So the Seahawks are insanely successful and have a mobile QB. Why is that a bad thing

[Gramps]

As proven by Dan Marino and I'm sure others, college stats for the most part can be tossed as evidence of future NFL success. How many sure hit QBs have failed and never made it in the NFL ? None of us know as amateur scouts what Daboll / Beane / McDermott are thinking and none of us know which QBs will be available when the Bills draft. 

 

All I'm saying is that I'd rather have a pocket passer - not saying it has to be Allen as I think Allen will be gone by the time the Bills pick. 

[LGR4GM]

As proven by Dan Marino and I'm sure others, college stats for the most part can be tossed as evidence of future NFL success. How many sure hit QBs have failed and never made it in the NFL ? None of us know as amateur scouts what Daboll / Beane / McDermott are thinking and none of us know which QBs will be available when the Bills draft. 

 

All I'm saying is that I'd rather have a pocket passer - not saying it has to be Allen as I think Allen will be gone by the time the Bills pick. 

If I had the choice between Allen and Rudolph at 21, I am taking Rudolph because he is more of pocket passer than Allen. 

[Gramps]

That doesn't make them right though

 

So the Seahawks are insanely successful and have a mobile QB. Why is that a bad thing

 

How many rings do they have ? And Brady ? Roethlisberger ? Both Mannings ? 

[LGR4GM]

How many rings do they have ? And Brady ? Roethlisberger ? Both Mannings ? 

You can't include Brady in comparison for anything. He has 5 rings and has been MVP 4 times. The guy is the best maybe ever. 

[Gramps]

You can't include Brady in comparison for anything. He has 5 rings and has been MVP 4 times. The guy is the best maybe ever. 

 

And he is a pocket passer ...

[LGR4GM]

And he is a pocket passer ...

Your trying to argue Lamar Jackson isn't a pocket passer and it isn't true. He can run and does but when he passes, it is from the pocket. How many of Allen's passes are roll outs on play action? Most of them. That said if you really want a pocket passer at 21, take Rudolph. He has the potential to be a good starter. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[WildCard]

How many rings do they have ? And Brady ? Roethlisberger ? Both Mannings ? 

You put one stat about how all of these guys are the best, and then when I say he's one of the best, you say yeah, but he's not the best of the best.

 

Yeah, so he's not one of two of the best QBs ever in Manning and Brady, and he didn't have the defenses Ben and Eli had. How many rings does Rodgers have btw? Or pocket-passing Matt Ryan? How about pocket-passing Kyle Orton, or pocket-passing Rex Grossman?

[Gramps]

You put one stat about how all of these guys are the best, and then when I say he's one of the best, you say yeah, but he's not the best of the best.

 

Yeah, so he's not one of two of the best QBs ever in Manning and Brady, and he didn't have the defenses Ben and Eli had. How many rings does Rodgers have btw? Or pocket-passing Matt Ryan? How about pocket-passing Kyle Orton, or pocket-passing Rex Grossman?

 

Who cares about Ryan, Orton, Grossman ? All pocket passers are not created equally either. 

 

Isn't the goal to win Super Bowls ? 

 

Rodgers has one - one more than we do. 

[WildCard]

Who cares about Ryan, Orton, Grossman ? All pocket passers are not created equally either. 

 

Isn't the goal to win Super Bowls ? 

 

Rodgers has one - one more than we do. 

Rodgers has one, the same as Wilson

 

And who cares about running quarter backs? Not all running quarterbacks are created equally

 

Who cares about shorter quarterbacks? Not all shorter quarterbacks are created equally 

[Gramps]

Rodgers has one, the same as Wilson

 

And who cares about running quarter backs? Not all running quarterbacks are created equally

 

Who cares about shorter quarterbacks? Not all shorter quarterbacks are created equally 

 

Then why waste a pick on a QB at all ? Let's keep Taylor and shore up the o-line, get him some great targets to throw to, and build an impenetrable defense. 

[WildCard]

Then why waste a pick on a QB at all ? Let's keep Taylor and shore up the o-line, get him some great targets to throw to, and build an impenetrable defense. 

Because Tyrod is just a bad QB, regardless of whichever category you want to fit him in.

 

I think what your post proved was, their are 5 QBs, and then everyone else. Unless you get pretty lucky and get a defense like the Broncos, Ravens, or Bucs, or you just have a complete team like the Eagles, odds are you aren't winning anything. Even dominate defenses like the Jags and complete teams like the Vikings routinely miss out.

 

Those top 5 QBs though, they will always make the playoffs (well, 99% of the time). And once you make the playoffs, you have a shot. Dominate defenses and complete teams will not make the playoffs that often

[Gramps]

Because Tyrod is just a bad QB, regardless of whichever category you want to fit him in.

 

I think what your post proved was, their are 5 QBs, and then everyone else. Unless you get pretty lucky and get a defense like the Broncos, Ravens, or Bucs, or you just have a complete team like the Eagles, odds are you aren't winning anything. Even dominate defenses like the Jags and complete teams like the Vikings routinely miss out.

 

Those top 5 QBs though, they will always make the playoffs (well, 99% of the time). And once you make the playoffs, you have a shot. Dominate defenses and complete teams will not make the playoffs that often

 

If Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl with a great defense, so can TT. 

[LGR4GM]

If Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl with a great defense, so can TT.

Then why not upgrade tyrod Taylor with Lamar Jackson?

[Gramps]

Then why not upgrade tyrod Taylor with Lamar Jackson?

 

Why not just upgrade the defense and save the pick ? And are you sure Jackson is an upgrade ? 

[LGR4GM]

Why not just upgrade the defense and save the pick ? And are you sure Jackson is an upgrade ?

You're really gonna sit there and tell me that a qb who threw for 14td in an entire season is good enough to win a Superbowl? Riiiiigggghhhht.

[WildCard]

If Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl with a great defense, so can TT. 

Can and probably will are entirely different, that was the entire point of my post

Why not just upgrade the defense and save the pick ? And are you sure Jackson is an upgrade ? 

Known failure vs unknown success, not exactly a tough decision 

[LGR4GM]

I'd rather draft Jackson or Rudolph then have another year of winning games 10-7

 

Further more, the bills should use first round picks on a qb until they get one right. You have 2 this year, use 1 on qb.