Buffalo Bills 2018-2019

[Wyldnwoody44]

So, yeah...that may have been the worst bills game I've ever seen, no first downs until the 3rd quarter?!? having to put your rookie QB in halfway through game 1, just wow. The level of ineptitude at 1 Bills Drive is staggering. We are loyal fans, but if that Sh1tshow repeats itself, there are gonna be a lot of available tickets. 

[That Aud Smell]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Well, you don't get much more "faith-based" or "try-hard" than Taylor, so I think they would have kept him if those were the criteria.

And so too is Peterman. I wonder if there are/were any other criteria.

 

[Hoss]

There’s still so much to digest. One thing that’s as jarring as anything else is that the loss came to a Baltimore team that, very likely, isn’t very good overall. Always feisty and well coached. Flacco was going through the motions on some of those chunk plays. Zero push back.

I’m certainly not feeling good about where this team is and where it is going. I had been saying for most of the offseason they’d be atrocious but that was below even those expectations.

The big draw right now is the youth in Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre White and not much else. The safeties both struggled mightily yesterday but could bounce back and are still cheap/young. The offensive line has Dion Dawkins and then a bunch of garbage so hopefully this doesn’t ruin him. Beyond those names idk where the exciting youth comes from right now. Harrison Phillips seems destined for depth duty.

The other draw is the cap space. That’s huge. But there’s several teams (Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Washington) that spent YEARS at the top of the heap of teams with cap space and couldn’t manage to get out of the hole. The Jags did finally when the signings all lined up and worked out and Oakland has a blip where they did, too. Can you get guys to sign in Buffalo? Will they bust out after getting overpaid even if slightly? Are the right guys available?

This feels like they’re already looking at wasting several years of Allen’s rookie deal. Every move from here to next year has to be pinpoint perfect. Not even the Corey Coleman meaningless “misstep.” Benjamin appears to be  bust already. Lotulelei played less than 50% of snaps. Murphy doesn’t seem near healthy (at least I hope not). So it’s not looking good as far as what’s been coming out of the front office in the last year.

Allen is still the possible trump card if he quickly becomes elite but we’ll see. Edmunds looked very good, so he could be a difference maker on defense.

[Eleven]

25 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

And so too is Peterman. I wonder if there are/were any other criteria.

The ability to throw five picks in a half, maybe.  Taylor never was very good at that.

But I know where you were headed and I just hope against hope that you're wrong.  We'll never know, of course.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Eleven

[That Aud Smell]

13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The ability to throw five picks in a half, maybe.  Taylor never was very good at that.

But I know where you were headed and I just hope against hope that you're wrong.  We'll never know, of course.

I didn't mean to be too on the nose with that. I don't think it's quite that straightforward. I do think there are some unacknowledged (and maybe acknowledged) biases that are unduly influencing this regime's decision making processes with regard to personnel. 

Not for nothing: It struck me yesterday how much Trent Murphy looks like McDermott - generally speaking.

[inkman]

29 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I didn't mean to be too on the nose with that. I don't think it's quite that straightforward. I do think there are some unacknowledged (and maybe acknowledged) biases that are unduly influencing this regime's decision making processes with regard to personnel. 

Not for nothing: It struck me yesterday how much Trent Murphy looks like McDermott - generally speaking.

 

[TrueBlueGED]

"Peterman's five completions on Sunday traveled an average of minus-0.4 yards in the air." From Bill Barnwell's morning column: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24630537/week-1-2018-nfl-replacements-change-season-comes-next

[inkman]

Is that bad? ?

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

There’s still so much to digest. One thing that’s as jarring as anything else is that the loss came to a Baltimore team that, very likely, isn’t very good overall. Always feisty and well coached. Flacco was going through the motions on some of those chunk plays. Zero push back.

I think Baltimore can win/will win that division

[...]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

The ability to throw five picks in a half, maybe.  Taylor never was very good at that.

But I know where you were headed and I just hope against hope that you're wrong.  We'll never know, of course.

 

51 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I didn't mean to be too on the nose with that. I don't think it's quite that straightforward. I do think there are some unacknowledged (and maybe acknowledged) biases that are unduly influencing this regime's decision making processes with regard to personnel. 

Not for nothing: It struck me yesterday how much Trent Murphy looks like McDermott - generally speaking.

 

Maybe I'm naive, but what where IS he headed?  I don't follow the thinking here.

 

[Randall Flagg]

4 minutes ago, ... said:

 

 

Maybe I'm naive, but what where IS he headed?  I don't follow the thinking here.

 

I think you do 

[That Aud Smell]

5 minutes ago, ... said:

Maybe I'm naive, but what where IS he headed?  I don't follow the thinking here.

If I understand your question, I think Eleven was inferring that I'd implied there could be a racial preference at play in choosing between two try-hard, faith-based QBs. 

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, although I wouldn't rule it out as having been in play on some level when it came to going with Peterman over Taylor. (I also think lots of other things were in play, too, including Taylor's value to Cleveland (and the value of that pick to the Bills), the idea that McCarron might be the bridge QB, maybe the savings in moving on from Taylor as a veteran bridge QB (?).)

More broadly, I am concerned about the presence of a feedback loop (not sure that's the term I want) with regard to Beane's and McDermott's preferences with personnel.

Did Harrison Phillips do anything noticeable yesterday? Let us not forget: He's got that prominent football/cross tattoo on his arm.

I'm not reaching any conclusions. But my radar's been turned back on in this regard.

[...]

You'd think McDermott would have figured out long ago that the NFL is probably not a wise career choice if the skin color of a person were going to affect his decision making.  Are we not to give McDermott credit for that, or are we to believe he's that stupid?  

[Randall Flagg]

FTR, when Taylor was traded, pretty much every notable QB to move hadn't moved yet, and from what I've read the Bills were zoned in on Darnold - the Jets moving up a week later probably destroyed that plan. I doubt McCarron was on the radar when the TT move was made - it felt like QB opportunities for this season were endless at the time. 

Which, again, is why the TT half of this makes no difference to me. All I care about is failing in every aspect after the fact. They got beat to the punch for a guy who's starting right away, a guy they likely had above Allen, in Darnold, and they lost out on every QB from Cousins and Smith to Keenum (understandable avoidance) to Bridgewater to Bradford etc. and settled on the worst case scenario. THIS is where the failure lies IMO. 

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

FTR, when Taylor was traded, pretty much every notable QB to move hadn't moved yet, and from what I've read the Bills were zoned in on Darnold - the Jets moving up a week later probably destroyed that plan. I doubt McCarron was on the radar when the TT move was made - it felt like QB opportunities for this season were endless at the time. 

Which, again, is why the TT half of this makes no difference to me. All I care about is failing in every aspect after the fact. They got beat to the punch for a guy who's starting right away, a guy they likely had above Allen, in Darnold, and they lost out on every QB from Cousins and Smith to Keenum (understandable avoidance) to Bridgewater to Bradford etc. and settled on the worst case scenario. THIS is where the failure lies IMO. 

Good stuff.

3 minutes ago, ... said:

You'd think McDermott would have figured out long ago that the NFL is probably not a wise career choice if the skin color of a person were going to affect his decision making.  Are we not to give McDermott credit for that, or are we to believe he's that stupid?  

I do not mean to suggest that McDermott consciously thinks this way or is that stupid.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, ... said:

You'd think McDermott would have figured out long ago that the NFL is probably not a wise career choice if the skin color of a person were going to affect his decision making.  Are we not to give McDermott credit for that, or are we to believe he's that stupid?  

More than half the roster is black. Our DC is black. McDermott is not making any decisions based on race. This is ridiculous 

[Randall Flagg]

I understand where TAS is coming from, and it's not from the position that McDermott is a flippant and flamboyant racist or anything within a mile of that. 

But the performance of tests which purport to indicate subconscious biases are just dreadful, or really, the popular one cited most often, that I had to learn about for 8 hours a day for half a week when I first got to my new skewl. And it's a pretty large character assassination for something with such bad metrics, as that is one of the worst things a human can be, if not the worst. 

And so I understand completely when half of a nation gets rankled when it continually is a focal point of discussions like this when they're just trying to enjoy some footbaw

Even if I appreciate the thoughtful/empathetic nature through which the discussion is trying to be had

[Hoss]

43 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I think Baltimore can win/will win that division

Maybe. But they’re certainly not among the lesgue’s elite. They’re not even as talented as the LA Chargers team that did it to us last year.

[That Aud Smell]

11 minutes ago, WildCard said:

More than half the roster is black. Our DC is black. McDermott is not making any decisions based on race. This is ridiculous 

That's not the point that I, or anyone as far as I know, is making.

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I understand where TAS is coming from, and it's not from the position that McDermott is a flippant and flamboyant racist or anything within a mile of that. 

But the performance of tests which purport to indicate subconscious biases are just dreadful, or really, the popular one cited most often, that I had to learn about for 8 hours a day for half a week when I first got to my new skewl. And it's a pretty large character assassination for something with such bad metrics, as that is one of the worst things a human can be, if not the worst. 

And so I understand completely when half of a nation gets rankled when it continually is a focal point of discussions like this when they're just trying to enjoy some footbaw

Even if I appreciate the thoughtful/empathetic nature through which the discussion is trying to be had

I appreciate that.

My antenna are back up for Beane/McDermott trying to find, draft, recruit players based on certain ... call it non-football criteria. And I'm not saying that a player's race or ethnicity plays a role in those criteria. It could, subconsciously I guess, but I don't think that would have to be the case for the hypothesis to have some validity.

The Trent Murphy situation was the one that really got me thinking about it.  

[Eleven]

I'd like to make sure that everyone understands that I was not accusing, implying, or otherwise stating that Aud Smell's post was an accusation of racism on McBeane's part, but rather that he may have been noting some of the subconscious biases discussed elsewhere in this thread.  I don't think Aud Smell would outright accuse McBeane of racism at all.

And I don't know what went into their thinking, but it was a bad decision.

That said, I know plenty of Bills *fans* who loved Flutie but somehow wanted the team to get rid of the more athletic version of Flutie that we saw in the last few years, and in at least some of those instances, I know it was race and nothing else.  This does not refer to anyone on this board.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Eleven

[Randall Flagg]

People who are up to date: Is Matt Moore still above a line where you'd consider signing him to avoid ever seeing Peterman again, and to keep Allen on the bench? Or has his play deteriorated so that we might just have to play Allen and hope this is his Goff/Trubisky rookie year? Not good, but not damaging long term?

I know a few years ago the answer would clearly be to go sign Matt Moore. 

 

And it's not out of the realm of possibility for the Bills to be able to leverage a lot of the cap space and picks they're going to get into a lot of solid to good starters. Baltimore completely rebuilt their receiving corps this year, the Bears loaded up, and the Rams before last year had a crazy offseason, even if their initial talent base was much higher than ours. 

But then I look at the WR free agent list, and the OL one, and I get worried. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[That Aud Smell]

16 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I'd like to make sure that everyone understands that I was not accusing, implying, or otherwise stating that Aud Smell's post was an accusation of racism on McBeane's part, but rather that he may have been noting some of the subconscious biases discussed elsewhere in this thread.  I don't think Aud Smell would outright accuse McBeane of racism at all.

And I don't know what went into their thinking, but it was a bad decision.

That said, I know plenty of Bills *fans* who loved Flutie but somehow wanted the team to get rid of the more athletic version of Flutie that we saw in the last few years, and in at least some of those instances, I know it was race and nothing else.  This does not refer to anyone on this board.

Appreciate that.

My thoughts are really half-baked at this point. Lotulelei and Tolbert are other examples. Obviously, they fit into an obvious "those are their guys" assessment. But I think there's maybe something else, or maybe something specific, with what Beane/McDermott value and prize in those guys. I have no idea what those things might be.

This may be a roundabout way of simply saying they have poor, flawed criteria for personnel selection. It's the specific manner in which the criteria are poor or flawed that interests me, though. Because I think they could be going about their fukkery in a uniquely bad way. Could be. I'm not sure.

[erickompositör72]

Remember, it was McDermott who specifically cited his "faith in the Lord" as an asset to his professional succes. I do not have a problem with that, so long as it does not lead to problematic biases on the part of the coach. Going to go out on a limb:

<begin pure speculation>

I have known individuals of a particular brand of christianity that are skeptical of the "faithfulness" of others who claim to be christian. If one doesn't have the same cadence when they pray, or quote the correct verses, etc, their faith is suspect.

It could be that Peterman passed this test with coach, and maybe they even pray together. Maybe they even pray together about Peterman having the strength to succeed as an NFL starter.

</end speculation>

After all this "process" BS, "playoff caliber" in big writing projected in the background during team meetings... McD is in danger of quickly becoming a walking parody.

Edited September 10, 2018 by erickompositör72

[That Aud Smell]

4 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

Remember, it was McDermott who specifically cited his "faith in the Lord" as an asset to his professional succes. I do not have a problem with that, so long as it does not lead to problematic biases on the part of the coach. Going to go out on a limb:

<begin pure speculation>

I have known individuals of a particular brand of christianity that are skeptical of the "faithfulness" of others who claim to be christian. If one doesn't have the same cadence when they pray, or quote the correct verses, etc, their faith is suspect.

It could be that Peterman passed this test with coach, and maybe they even pray together. Maybe they even pray together about Peterman having the strength to succeed as an NFL starter.

</end speculation>

After all this "process" BS, "playoff caliber" in big writing projected in the background during team meetings... McD is in danger of quickly becoming a walking parody.

That's another part of what I was getting at with Taylor, and I appreciate your identifying it (where I failed). Taylor seemed to check every box with this FO, and yet ...  something didn't fit or click. Was it his penchant for high-fashion outfits that did it?

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

That's another part of what I was getting at with Taylor, and I appreciate your identifying it (where I failed). Taylor seemed to check every box with this FO, and yet ...  something didn't fit or click. Was it his penchant for high-fashion outfits that did it?

He threw for 56 yards in 3 quarters last season against the Saints while being demolished 47-10 at home

He threw under 100 yards in a full game one or two other times

His playoff performance left everything to be desired 

That's probably what they were thinking come discussions of the roster last Jan/Feb

Also, continuing to play zone coverage with a line that can't pressure is going to sink our defense