Buffalo Bills 2018-2019

[ubkev]

For the record, I haven't been optimistic about the sabres since we signed Christian Ehrhoff. I was soooo pumped going into that season. Feels like it's been all downhill since then. I think lasted 1 extra season of paying to watch the sabres than I did the bills. I haven't been pumped about the bills since Drew Bledsoe. I've at least seen a sabres win in person. The bills have me at 0-13. Wait! I was pumped about the Sammy Watkins pick...fml

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

 

This doesn't make any sense considering the vast majority of sporting events to happen in any of our recent memories, going back as far as 7 or 8 years.

8 years

Sabres have played 1312 games

Bills have played 128

You tell me which games you're going to remember more

Edited September 6, 2018 by WildCard

[Randall Flagg]

Another way to phrase it, since the Sabres decided to start tanking in spring 2013, the Sabres have 18 fewer wins than the next-worst team. Their win percentage is .334. They are in dead last by more wins than double the number that separates any other two consecutive NHL teams in that span. They are the Browns of the NHL.

In that same stretch, which includes that 6-10 season for the Bills, they rank 17th in the NFL in wins. They are one win behind Baltimore over those five years, and tied with Atlanta. They don't have as much variance as other teams which makes it feel a little worse, but wins are wins. If you take the last four seasons of the Bills, they have more wins than the last FIVE seasons of 10 other NFL franchises. And in the last 4 seasons, they're 15th in total wins. 

There is an order of magnitude of difference in how relevant and good these franchises have been, and the Sabres have a long way to go to even approach the ability to win games the Bills have had in the last five years.

You'd think it were the opposite if you read any Buffalo sports message board at any single point during that 5 year span.

25 minutes ago, WildCard said:

8 years

Sabres have played 1312 games

Bills have played 128

You tell me which games you're going to remember more

The magnitude of importance of an NFL game means I remember it far, far more than when the Sabres host Philly on Tuesday November 16th. If you showed me every touchdown scored in the 2013 season, I would recognize/remember every play. If you showed me every goal scored in February, there'd be at least 5 I have no recollection of ever seeing

Edited September 6, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The magnitude of importance of an NFL game means I remember it far, far more than when the Sabres host Philly on Tuesday November 16th. If you showed me every touchdown scored in the 2013 season, I would recognize/remember every play. If you showed me every goal scored in February, there'd be at least 5 I have no recollection of ever seeing

The Bills games stand out in your mind more, just like the Bills sucking stands out in people's heads more. 

Also, the Sabres for two of those seasons didn't even let us down. They did EXACTLY what we wanted them to. We were happy, they met expectations. The Sabres also haven't been making highly touted controversial 1st round draft picks, they haven't been completely neglecting the top position of need. They hired a championship winning coach (I hated Dan but still I can see why he brought optimism)

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

You'd think it were the opposite if you read any Buffalo sports message board.

Well if everyone but you feels that way than maybe there's justification behind it

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

The Bills games stand out in your mind more, just like the Bills sucking stands out in people's heads more. 

Also, the Sabres for two of those seasons didn't even let us down. They did EXACTLY what we wanted them to. We were happy, they met expectations. The Sabres also haven't been making highly touted controversial 1st round draft picks, they haven't been completely neglecting the top position of need. They hired a championship winning coach (I hated Dan but still I can see why he brought optimism)

But this reflects your lack of watching the actual games in the last few years too - I could make all kinds of "here's what the Bills did in the offseason" moments, but those have literally zero influence on how I've felt the vast majority of the last decade. I care about sports seasons, not April in the NFL and July in the NHL. I assumed other fans felt the same way. Maybe that's why the ones that probably agree with me are the ones that hated the Sabres "succeeding" in 14-15, and those that don't would do 2014-15 again in a second

[WildCard]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

But this reflects your lack of watching the actual games in the last few years too - I could make all kinds of "here's what the Bills did in the offseason" moments, but those have literally zero influence on how I've felt the vast majority of the last decade. I care about sports seasons, not April in the NFL and July in the NHL. I assumed other fans felt the same way. Maybe that's why the ones that probably agree with me are the ones that hated the Sabres "succeeding" in 14-15, and those that don't would do 2014-15 again in a second

Flagg you're not the only 'true fan'. I'm not the only guy that voted the Sabres as more optimistic, and just because I didn't watch one season and you put hours into film doesn't mean I'm ignorant of the numbers, or am not emotionally invested in the Sabres

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, WildCard said:

Flagg you're not the only 'true fan'. I'm not the only guy that voted the Sabres as more optimistic, and just because I didn't watch one season and you put hours into film doesn't mean I'm ignorant of the numbers, or am not emotionally invested in the Sabres

I'm not saying what I do is "true" or "right", but I think I've found the difference between the two mindsets we have, that I originally posted about as being strange. 

[WildCard]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I'm not saying what I do is "true" or "right", but I think I've found the difference between the two mindsets we have, that I originally posted about as being strange. 

Which is?

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, WildCard said:

Which is?

It's also reflected in our posts about Dahlin - I've been far less over-the-moon than plenty of other people, because I just care about wins come October, and have tempered expectations for what a bunch of kiddos can do, at least until I see them doing it. I wasn't excited about Housley because I needed to see what happened when we hit the ice, but if you read the Housley talk in the offseason, at least half the board was beyond pumped up, and I'm almost positive more than half the board had put is in playoff spots in preseason predictions, just like some would do this offseason, while some of us continually come off as negative/pessimistic in our alarm that anyone could feel that way given recent track records.

I'm saying "I," but in general what I mean is that there are two broad segments of fans, and I'm in the one and you're in the other, and that neither is right or wrong but they both experience things quite differently. 

I'd call myself "pessimistic" but what's really happening is that I haven't had fun watching the Sabres, and have had fun watching the Bills, and have had fun in the Bills thread in the past, whereas the other fans come to the bills thread and talk about how bad and awful we are while planning a cup parade for 2024 when Tage Thompson, Cliff Pu Rasmus Asplund and Casey Mittelstadt are a killer second line

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

It's also reflected in our posts about Dahlin - I've been far less over-the-moon than plenty of other people, because I just care about wins come October, and have tempered expectations for what a bunch of kiddos can do, at least until I see them doing it. I wasn't excited about Housley because I needed to see what happened when we hit the ice, but if you read the Housley talk in the offseason, at least half the board was beyond pumped up, and I'm almost positive more than half the board had put is in playoff spots in preseason predictions, just like some would do this offseason, while some of us continually come off as negative/pessimistic in our alarm that anyone could feel that way given recent track records.

I'm saying "I," but in general what I mean is that there are two broad segments of fans, and I'm in the one and you're in the other, and that neither is right or wrong but they both experience things quite differently. 

But by this way of thinking, throwing out all of their history and everything, you have more faith that a team with a rookie QB that was a laughing stock by many, a sophomore QB that threw 5 picks in one game, and the worst OL in the league have a better shot at a better season than a team with a top Center, that just drafted a generational defenseman, has the 1-2 ranked prospects entering the league, and completely overhauled their entire roster?

Historically and in the present, I don't see why the Bills would ever garner more faith to have a better season

[Randall Flagg]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

But by this way of thinking, throwing out all of their history and everything, you have more faith that a team with a rookie QB that was a laughing stock by many, a sophomore QB that threw 5 picks in one game, and the worst OL in the league have a better shot at a better season than a team with a top Center, that just drafted a generational defenseman, has the 1-2 ranked prospects entering the league, and completely overhauled their entire roster?

Historically and in the present, I don't see why the Bills would ever garner more faith to have a better season

I'm not sure what's going to happen this year, but the key part of this is that I've  mentioned that this is universal - it isn't a phenomenon from this year. The same thing happened last year. And the year before. And the year before. People put the Sabres in the playoffs in September 2014. It happened un-ironically. 

And I do have legitimate concerns about the Bills OL, but it's tough for me to see the passing game fall steeply from 31st, and the rest of the roster appears to be the same, whereas the "top ranked prospects in the league" simply have to do so much work just to get Buffalo up to the rest of the mediocre teams first, with their NHLe that gives them what, 35 and 25 points? Sure, this stat is bad, but attempting to quantify this year's Sabres team does not make them look substantially better than last year, and it's all we have besides baseless speculation of could-bes as of now before games start. I won't guarantee a better season from the Bills, but I absolutely have a general attitude that's more positive about the Bills over the past five years than the Sabres, to where your last sentence there, I cannot see it as anything other than shocking. 

The BIlls are not the Browns of the NFL. Over the last 30% of my entire life the Sabres are literally the Browns of the NHL, worse than the next worst team by twice as much as any two consecutive teams are separated. This is not a negligible amount of time. Super Bowl teams get built and dismantled in this stretch of time. So do cup winners. A crappy Bills team in 2002, or 2006, does not change this fact. I can understand feeling good about the Sabres, and relatively bad about the Bills, but that last sentence is where I lose all ability to put myself in someone else's shoes. 

[nfreeman]

I had zero fun watching the Bills until last season.  They were effectively not part of the NFL for well over a decade until TP bought the team.  They weren't trying.

The Sabres were trying until they fired Lindy.  Since then, they've been even more awful, and IMHO less fun, than the Bills.

The good news is that I think there is a good chance that both franchises finally have the right guys running things -- and I completely agree with Neo that once that is in place, everything flows from there.

I think both teams will have moments of stink this season, both will have plenty of fun moments too.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

I had zero fun watching the Bills until last season.  They were effectively not part of the NFL for well over a decade until TP bought the team.  They weren't trying.

The Sabres were trying until they fired Lindy.  Since then, they've been even more awful, and IMHO less fun, than the Bills.

The good news is that I think there is a good chance that both franchises finally have the right guys running things -- and I completely agree with Neo that once that is in place, everything flows from there.

I think both teams will have moments of stink this season, both will have plenty of fun moments too.

Middle man dan over here ?

[TrueBlueGED]

58 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The magnitude of importance of an NFL game means I remember it far, far more than when the Sabres host Philly on Tuesday November 16th. If you showed me every touchdown scored in the 2013 season, I would recognize/remember every play. If you showed me every goal scored in February, there'd be at least 5 I have no recollection of ever seeing

Are you even sure the Sabres scored 5 goals in February?

[dudacek]

I don’t think there is any question the Sabres have been worse than the Bills for the past six years.

I think the difference for some of us older folks is that our frame of reference goes back a lot longer than that.

I’ve been a dedicated fan for more than 40 years. I’m used to ups and downs of fandom.

Pegula bought some grace by convincing many of us to accept 14 and 15 as bad because there would be a payoff worth the suffering and 16 wasn’t hard to take because We could look at it as if it was the start of a rebound.

So it’s really only been the past two years of Sabres hockey that have gnawed at my soul.

It took me 15 years of wasted Sundays before I stopped dedicating them to the Bills.

So I wouldn’t say my outlook is lower for the Bills, it’s just that my love for them never was as strong to begin with and the emergency reservoir of hope has been tapped for far longer.

Edited September 6, 2018 by dudacek

[inkman]

Not one person I consider a peer gives a rat's ass about kneeling or anthems or any of that . 

My boss, who is fox news brainwashed, has to make some jackass comment about kneeling today. 

I hadn't thought about any of that at all. Even after the Nike Kaepernick ad. 

I don't understand certain individuals insistence on having to let everyone know how patriotic they are and how kneeling during the anthem is the worst thing a human being can do. 

I don't care if Julio Jones takes a big dump on the flag tonight at the 50 yard line. 

I don't understand the insistence on playing the anthem before sporting events or the need to televise it. 

What is the purpose of it? To ensure everyone knows they are playing in America? 

[Sabel79]

Leftover preformative Cold-War jingoism, which we keep doing because we think we’ve always done it.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Not one person I consider a peer gives a rat's ass about kneeling or anthems or any of that . 

My boss, who is fox news brainwashed, has to make some jackass comment about kneeling today. 

I hadn't thought about any of that at all. Even after the Nike Kaepernick ad. 

I don't understand certain individuals insistence on having to let everyone know how patriotic they are and how kneeling during the anthem is the worst thing a human being can do. 

I don't care if Julio Jones takes a big dump on the flag tonight at the 50 yard line. 

I don't understand the insistence on playing the anthem before sporting events or the need to televise it. 

What is the purpose of it? To ensure everyone knows they are playing in America? 

Fake patriots, wrapped in the flag, condemning Americans, for exercising their rights as Americans.

God bless America.

[Randall Flagg]

I understand the catch rule even less than I get the catch rule most years

 

[Hoss]

29 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I understand the catch rule even less than I get the catch rule most years

 

I think the new one is clear and good. Everyone constantly got pissed that the tiny movement going of the ball and “going to the ground” were parts of the rule. They no longer are.

That Hooper play was and should be a catch. He caught it with both hands, secured it then as he was sliding/moving on the ground the ball moved slightly in his arm. Seems... simple?

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I think the new one is clear and good. Everyone constantly got pissed that the tiny movement going of the ball and “going to the ground” were parts of the rule. They no longer are.

That Hooper play was and should be a catch. He caught it with both hands, secured it then as he was sliding/moving on the ground the ball moved slightly in his arm. Seems... simple?

I forgot the rule was changed. 

I like that.

I was still operating under last year's uneasy/uncertain view I had of catching.

[Hoss]

13 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I forgot the rule was changed. 

I like that.

I was still operating under last year's uneasy/uncertain view I had of catching.

I’m more interesting in the number of overall flags being thrown. That “roughing the passer?” That was garbage.

[Samson's Flow]

10 hours ago, Hoss said:

I’m more interesting in the number of overall flags being thrown. That “roughing the passer?” That was garbage.

Not saying you're wrong about the flags, but the overall quality of play last night from two seemingly good teams was atrocious. Thursday football should not be a thing, especially week 1 thursday football.

[Randall Flagg]

If Edmunds starts on Sunday, he'll be the youngest linebacker to ever start a game since the Super Bowl era began.

[Samson's Flow]

14 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

If Edmunds starts on Sunday, he'll be the youngest linebacker to ever start a game since the Super Bowl era began.

Hopefully that is positive history and something broadcasters can point out as a fun fact after he has a long, successful career.