Hoss Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 1:06 PM, Eleven said: Whoever starts under center that week is gonna be dead. Also it's 11/4 not week 4. I can see the Bears making a SB run in the relatively near future. Expand My reading comprehension is off this morning. Quote
Hoss Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 Rapoport says it’s two firsts and a player. Depending on the player it’s still worth it. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) On 9/1/2018 at 1:06 PM, Eleven said: Whoever starts under center that week is gonna be dead. Also it's 11/4 not week 4. I can see the Bears making a SB run in the relatively near future. Expand You have a whole heck of a lot more faith in Trubisky than I do. Every time I watch him I come away pretty unimpressed. Edited September 1, 2018 by TrueBlueGED 1 Quote
Eleven Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 1:37 PM, TrueBlueGED said: You have a whole heck of a lot more faith in Trubisky than I do. Every time I watch him I come away pretty unimpressed. Expand I do think he's going to be a solid starter for a long time. Not elite, but the level just below elite. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 1:39 PM, Eleven said: I do think he's going to be a solid starter for a long time. Not elite, but the level just below elite. Expand I think he's probably going to be around Andy Dalton (when Dalton is at his best) level. Certainly not bad, but you really want better Quote
Eleven Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 I don't care that it's a 7th round pick in 2020; what is the point of trading for Coleman only to cut him? Did they not do their homework on him before the trade? Honestly, I think McBeane are in over their heads. They took Whaley's team to the playoffs (where it would have gone in previous years with better coaching) and now they are just a mess. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) On 9/1/2018 at 2:52 PM, Eleven said: I don't care that it's a 7th round pick in 2020; what is the point of trading for Coleman only to cut him? Did they not do their homework on him before the trade? Honestly, I think McBeane are in over their heads. They took Whaley's team to the playoffs (where it would have gone in previous years with better coaching) and now they are just a mess. Expand This is a pretty odd way of looking at it, though I'm not questioning the idea of being critical of McBeane. The whole story of last year was they cut so much of Whaley's team off clean that they were supposed to only win 4 games, as predicted by anyone here and anyone in the media, and they more than doubled that to end the playoff drought. Remember how much talent they traded away? Watkins, Darby, Dareus, letting Gilmore go. The narrative was that they were literally changing how trading in the NFL was happening, they were doing it so often to dump Whaley guys. They rebuilt that secondary from the ground up by adding the two best safeties I've seen in Bills uniforms. Now, I'm a little skeptical of what's going on this year, but also can't put Woods/Incognito on them. But the lines on both side are a big problem and doing things like giving Star a fat contract and continually playing Ducasse, STILL, are not going to cut it. Edited September 1, 2018 by Randall Flagg Quote
Hoss Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 2:52 PM, Eleven said: I don't care that it's a 7th round pick in 2020; what is the point of trading for Coleman only to cut him? Did they not do their homework on him before the trade? Honestly, I think McBeane are in over their heads. They took Whaley's team to the playoffs (where it would have gone in previous years with better coaching) and now they are just a mess. Expand They took a chance. Cutting him moves his cap hit up to this year instead of next. I think overall it was a dumb move in the end but the hit is small. Quote
darksabre Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 Does trading McCoy for O-Line make sense if this season is going to be a dumpster fire anyway? Like, at least give our quarterbacks some help and draft a RB in the 1st next year? Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 3:22 PM, Hoss said: They took a chance. Cutting him moves his cap hit up to this year instead of next. I think overall it was a dumb move in the end but the hit is small. Expand Trading a 7th round pick, by definition, cannot be considered a dumb move. Quote
Hoss Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 3:26 PM, darksabre said: Does trading McCoy for O-Line make sense if this season is going to be a dumpster fire anyway? Like, at least give our quarterbacks some help and draft a RB in the 1st next year? Expand I’ve been on the trade McCoy train for a few months. Don’t see a point to having him around if you can get future value for him. I know RBs are seeing a revival but I’m still not drafting one in the first if they’re not elite. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 3:26 PM, darksabre said: Does trading McCoy for O-Line make sense if this season is going to be a dumpster fire anyway? Like, at least give our quarterbacks some help and draft a RB in the 1st next year? Expand With the O-line and the D-line the mess that they are, and with the prevalence of good RBs all over draft boards, I don't think the last part would be a good idea, but I wouldn't be mad at committing to the rebuild many expected last season for this fall. Not sure if Shady could get us anything of value at OL though. Quote
WildCard Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 3:37 PM, Hoss said: I’ve been on the trade McCoy train for a few months. Don’t see a point to having him around if you can get future value for him. I know RBs are seeing a revival but I’m still not drafting one in the first if they’re not elite. Expand It depends. Running backs have such a short shelf life, and drafting one in the first does give you an extra year and leverage on their contract; theory is to draft them in the 1st, beat the hell out of them while they're cost controlled, then let them go. Quote
darksabre Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 I'm not a draft expert or anything so I don't really have an opinion on where we take a RB. I'm mostly just curious if we have anything of value on this team to fix the O-Line so that this isn't a wasted development season for Allen if he ends up seeing playing time. Quote
Hoss Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 3:42 PM, WildCard said: It depends. Running backs have such a short shelf life, and drafting one in the first does give you an extra year and leverage on their contract; theory is to draft them in the 1st, beat the hell out of them while they're cost controlled, then let them go. Expand I’ve heard this before but using a first rounder on someone you only plan to keep around for five years is a waste. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 I don't see any real way of addressing the OL for this coming season. I think our biggest help will be the cap space we open up at the end, and the draft picks we have. I've read that there are some stud DE's that will be in the draft next year too, and that's something to look into as well If we have our QB, we need to protect him and to get to the other team's QB Quote
Eleven Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 2:58 PM, Randall Flagg said: This is a pretty odd way of looking at it, though I'm not questioning the idea of being critical of McBeane. The whole story of last year was they cut so much of Whaley's team off clean that they were supposed to only win 4 games, as predicted by anyone here and anyone in the media, and they more than doubled that to end the playoff drought. Remember how much talent they traded away? Watkins, Darby, Dareus, letting Gilmore go. The narrative was that they were literally changing how trading in the NFL was happening, they were doing it so often to dump Whaley guys. They rebuilt that secondary from the ground up by adding the two best safeties I've seen in Bills uniforms. Now, I'm a little skeptical of what's going on this year, but also can't put Woods/Incognito on them. But the lines on both side are a big problem and doing things like giving Star a fat contract and continually playing Ducasse, STILL, are not going to cut it. Expand You do make some fair points here. But still, Taylor was Whaley's QB and got them to the playoffs. On 9/1/2018 at 3:27 PM, TrueBlueGED said: Trading a 7th round pick, by definition, cannot be considered a dumb move. Expand This is the NFL. 7th round picks count. On 9/1/2018 at 3:42 PM, WildCard said: It depends. Running backs have such a short shelf life, and drafting one in the first does give you an extra year and leverage on their contract; theory is to draft them in the 1st, beat the hell out of them while they're cost controlled, then let them go. Expand Never again. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 6:03 PM, Eleven said: You do make some fair points here. But still, Taylor was Whaley's QB and got them to the playoffs. This is the NFL. 7th round picks count. Never again. Expand They really don't: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-hard-to-tell-how-good-nfl-teams-are-at-the-draft/ Quote
WildCard Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 3:43 PM, Hoss said: I’ve heard this before but using a first rounder on someone you only plan to keep around for five years is a waste. Expand 5 years is pretty long for an NFL career Quote
nfreeman Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 Although the move for Coleman didn't pan out, IMHO it was worth the cost of the dice roll. Someone with waiver rights before the Bills probably would've claimed him if the Bills hadn't traded for him (as Cleveland was probably going to cut him). The 7th-rounder was the price of jumping those claims. Many of these moves don't work out. That doesn't mean they aren't worth trying. Quote
Eleven Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) On 9/1/2018 at 6:28 PM, WildCard said: 5 years is pretty long for an NFL career Expand On 9/1/2018 at 6:25 PM, TrueBlueGED said: They really don't: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-hard-to-tell-how-good-nfl-teams-are-at-the-draft/ Expand 7th rounders have an average career length of four years per that graph. Edited September 1, 2018 by Eleven Quote
Randall Flagg Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 7:18 PM, Eleven said: 7th rounders have an average career length of four years per that graph. Expand Most of those cases are bouncing around other teams' practice squads though, I'd imagine. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) On 9/1/2018 at 7:18 PM, Eleven said: 7th rounders have an average career length of four years per that graph. Expand Right. Which is like 8 games more than undrafted free agents. And as Flagg said, most of those years are probably bouncing around practice squads. Trade a 7th? Sign an extra UDFA for essentially the same expected benefits. Edited September 1, 2018 by TrueBlueGED 1 Quote
Hoss Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 On 9/1/2018 at 6:28 PM, WildCard said: 5 years is pretty long for an NFL career Expand If you’re consistently getting five years out of your first round picks you’re getting fired. Quote
ubkev Posted September 1, 2018 Report Posted September 1, 2018 Wtf? Report: Raiders acquire AJ McCarron in trade with Bills https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1595984 Hope they got 5 o-linemen Quote
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