GASabresIUFAN Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 See i'm of the exact opposite opinion. I am really hoping that the Bills just go for it and trade up to get Rosen, so that I can finally say my team went for a franchise QB instead of ######-footing around with retreads, second choices or the fourth choice rookie. Go for it, try for greatness instead of just okay-ness. See, I think Rudolph is the Aaron Rodgers or Dan Marino of this draft, aka the guy at the end of the 1st rd that ends up being the best QB of his draft year. Fyi Rodgers was drafted 24th, Brees at 32, Braddy at 199, Roethlisberger at 11, and Wilson at 75. Top FA QB Cousins was picked at 102. Franchise QBs can come from anywhere not just picks 1 or 2, because for every Wentz there are a bunch of Bradfords, Vince Youngs or Jamarcus Russell. Quote
Samson's Flow Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 See, I think Rudolph is the Aaron Rodgers or Dan Marino of this draft, aka the guy at the end of the 1st rd that ends up being the best QB of his draft year. Fyi Rodgers was drafted 24th, Brees at 32, Braddy at 199, Roethlisberger at 11, and Wilson at 75. Top FA QB Cousins was picked at 102. Franchise QBs can come from anywhere not just picks 1 or 2, because for every Wentz there are a bunch of Bradfords, Vince Youngs or Jamarcus Russell. I'll at least give you credit for pointing out more than just "Brady was a 6th rounder", and I recognize that good QBs can come from outside the top 5. Brees and Wilson dropped because of size concerns but were good QBs, and Rodgers was supposed to go top 5 but dropped over one team getting spooked. We can go back and forth bringing up examples on the merits of early picks v. waiting for a lottery ticket to hit, but I don't think that solves anything. More than anything, I want some conviction from the Buffalo Bills to indicate that they had a plan and executed it to get the guy they wanted. For far too many years we have let the market or other teams dictate what we did, and we were always left with everyone else's second (or worse) choices at the QB position. Quote
The Dominator Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 I'll at least give you credit for pointing out more than just "Brady was a 6th rounder", and I recognize that good QBs can come from outside the top 5. Brees and Wilson dropped because of size concerns but were good QBs, and Rodgers was supposed to go top 5 but dropped over one team getting spooked. We can go back and forth bringing up examples on the merits of early picks v. waiting for a lottery ticket to hit, but I don't think that solves anything. More than anything, I want some conviction from the Buffalo Bills to indicate that they had a plan and executed it to get the guy they wanted. For far too many years we have let the market or other teams dictate what we did, and we were always left with everyone else's second (or worse) choices at the QB position. I'm with this. I'm all for making a move up this year and getting "the guy" if the GM is completely convinced that a guy at the top is a premier prospect. I'd much rather see that than to sit back and hope that the 4th guy ends up being better than the rest. Now, if Beane's evaluation leads to the conclusion that someone like Rudolph is truly the premier prospect and he know he can wait and get him, then fine. But he better articulate the fact that he felt Rudolph was the best prospect in the class regardless of scheme after doing that Quote
Samson's Flow Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 I'm with this. I'm all for making a move up this year and getting "the guy" if the GM is completely convinced that a guy at the top is a premier prospect. I'd much rather see that than to sit back and hope that the 4th guy ends up being better than the rest. Now, if Beane's evaluation leads to the conclusion that someone like Rudolph is truly the premier prospect and he know he can wait and get him, then fine. But he better articulate the fact that he felt Rudolph was the best prospect in the class regardless of scheme after doing that This is all I am looking for. If that was your plan and you thought our picks were better used waiting for Rudolph because the talent gap wasn't as big as perceived, that's fine as long as you can convince me you weren't just taking the last girl at the bar when the lights come on. Quote
The Dominator Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 This is all I am looking for. If that was your plan and you thought our picks were better used waiting for Rudolph because the talent gap wasn't as big as perceived, that's fine as long as you can convince me you weren't just taking the last girl at the bar when the lights come on. Right, it's not so much worrying about us being the first to draft a QB. It's more so ensuring that our GM is hellbent on getting the best QB he possibly can, whether that be trading up or sticking back because he knows the guy he thinks is the best isn't being properly identified by other GMs. Either way, I want total conviction in the guy they draft and I want him on record saying it so the fan base knows the plan was executed. And if they can't get the QB or two (or three) that Beane labeled a potential franchise guy, I don't want him taking any QB early. Either believe in your heart and soul in the guy or don't waste an early pick trying to convince yourself otherwise. Quote
Gramps Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 This is all I am looking for. If that was your plan and you thought our picks were better used waiting for Rudolph because the talent gap wasn't as big as perceived, that's fine as long as you can convince me you weren't just taking the last girl at the bar when the lights come on. A 2 is a 10 at 10 minutes to 2 probably doesn't work for QBs. Right, it's not so much worrying about us being the first to draft a QB. It's more so ensuring that our GM is hellbent on getting the best QB he possibly can, whether that be trading up or sticking back because he knows the guy he thinks is the best isn't being properly identified by other GMs. Either way, I want total conviction in the guy they draft and I want him on record saying it so the fan base knows the plan was executed. And if they can't get the QB or two (or three) that Beane labeled a potential franchise guy, I don't want him taking any QB early. Either believe in your heart and soul in the guy or don't waste an early pick trying to convince yourself otherwise. It's not that the other GMs don't properly identify the same guy - the QB selected has to fit in with the scheme favored by the OC. I believe I read that Daboll said he prefers a pocket passer. Quote
Samson's Flow Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 A 2 is a 10 at 10 minutes to 2 probably doesn't work for QBs. That saying only works because you only need to spend an hour with her max. With a drafted QB, you're stuck with that butter face for multiple years... and your buying them a new house... and all your friends have to deal with the consequences of your desperate decision. It's a bit different. Right, it's not so much worrying about us being the first to draft a QB. It's more so ensuring that our GM is hellbent on getting the best QB he possibly can, whether that be trading up or sticking back because he knows the guy he thinks is the best isn't being properly identified by other GMs. Either way, I want total conviction in the guy they draft and I want him on record saying it so the fan base knows the plan was executed. And if they can't get the QB or two (or three) that Beane labeled a potential franchise guy, I don't want him taking any QB early. Either believe in your heart and soul in the guy or don't waste an early pick trying to convince yourself otherwise. That's the EJ Manuel pick in a nutshell. Buddy Nix was so desperate to draft a QB as part of his parting legacy that he convinced the team to take a bad one in a bad draft year. Quote
Gramps Posted March 2, 2018 Report Posted March 2, 2018 That saying only works because you only need to spend an hour with her max. With a drafted QB, you're stuck with that butter face for multiple years... and your buying them a new house... and all your friends have to deal with the consequences of your desperate decision. It's a bit different. That's the EJ Manuel pick in a nutshell. Buddy Nix was so desperate to draft a QB as part of his parting legacy that he convinced the team to take a bad one in a bad draft year. EJ's college stats were pretty darn good - that's why you really never know. Quote
The Dominator Posted March 3, 2018 Report Posted March 3, 2018 A 2 is a 10 at 10 minutes to 2 probably doesn't work for QBs. It's not that the other GMs don't properly identify the same guy - the QB selected has to fit in with the scheme favored by the OC. I believe I read that Daboll said he prefers a pocket passer. In some cases, GMs actually do just fail to evaluate properly regardless of scheme of the OC... Here's a quote from Brandon Beane just a few days ago via the Buffalo News on what to look for in a QB for Daboll's scheme specifically: Q: How much of a fit is the coordinator and the QB, given coaches change? A: We're looking for good football players at every position. Yes, coaches move on. So we've got to draft a good football player who fits the Buffalo Bills. You're exactly right, Brian could be a head coach somewhere. Yeah, I'm not just going to draft a guy who only fits what Coach Daboll does. Source: http://buffalonews.com/2018/02/28/brandon-beane-qa-bills-gm-on-new-cb-ransoms-combine/ Beane has said in the past that he wants a QB that wins from the pocket and can make plays in the pocket, but honestly what GM doesn't want that? Quote
Gramps Posted March 3, 2018 Report Posted March 3, 2018 In some cases, GMs actually do just fail to evaluate properly regardless of scheme of the OC... Here's a quote from Brandon Beane just a few days ago via the Buffalo News on what to look for in a QB for Daboll's scheme specifically: Q: How much of a fit is the coordinator and the QB, given coaches change? A: We're looking for good football players at every position. Yes, coaches move on. So we've got to draft a good football player who fits the Buffalo Bills. You're exactly right, Brian could be a head coach somewhere. Yeah, I'm not just going to draft a guy who only fits what Coach Daboll does. Source: http://buffalonews.com/2018/02/28/brandon-beane-qa-bills-gm-on-new-cb-ransoms-combine/ Beane has said in the past that he wants a QB that wins from the pocket and can make plays in the pocket, but honestly what GM doesn't want that? What does this even mean ? Sure coaches can move on, but so can key players. Quote
The Dominator Posted March 3, 2018 Report Posted March 3, 2018 What does this even mean ? Sure coaches can move on, but so can key players. There wasn't a follow up question to that portion of his answer. I would assume he's intentionally speaking in generalities with it being the offseason and not wanting to tip his hand too much. But you never draft players assuming they will move on from the team if they're successful. You assume your most successful coaches will move on from the team because it happens every single year as coaches receive promotions from other teams Quote
Brawndo Posted March 3, 2018 Report Posted March 3, 2018 Adam Schefter in an interview mentioned he has not heard any chatter about the Bills moving up FWIW Quote
Gramps Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 A little combine throwing ... https://twitter.com/buffalobills/status/970097726036762625 Quote
Huckleberry Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 Looking at what they are saying about the combine. Baker Mayfield looks uncomfortable dropping back to throw, something he was not asked to do at Oklahoma. He takes a weird kick-step after the snap and moves jerkily to his launch point. The hinky drop appeared to affect his timing on some throws. Mayfield also uncorked some wobblers when forced to drive the ball downfield, something that was also evident during Senior Bowl practices. There was nothing disastrous about his performance, but there is much polishing to be done on his mechanics. Trade up for rosen or allen only, avoid Darnold , mayfield. just hope for Jackson to drop I guess. Quote
That Aud Smell Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 I’m not sold on either of the Joshes, based on the QB name theorem. *Josh* — I’m just not sure a Josh can be a good/great QB. Lamar Jackson? He can be great. Same with Darnold, Mayfield. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 It's all falling into place - Allen is getting tons of love for his performance against air in shorts. May he go high and open up the chance for us to move up and get Rosen. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 It's all falling into place - Allen is getting tons of love for his performance against air in shorts. May he go high and open up the chance for us to move up and get Rosen. I'd love to see a venn diagram of people who say "stats are for losers, watch the game!" and "Look at this guy in shorts against air!"...I bet there would be significant overlap. Quote
pi2000 Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 Rosen = Bradford. Allen can't anticipate throws. Darnold big loopy throwing motion. Mayfield = Manziel I hope they stay where they are and maybe trade up for Rudolph or White on day 2. They need those 1sts to fill other needs. Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 It's all falling into place - Allen is getting tons of love for his performance against air in shorts. May he go high and open up the chance for us to move up and get Rosen. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-combine-2018-josh-allen-shows-why-hes-worthy-of-being-the-no-1-overall-pick/ I watched a few minutes of the combine and Allen can make all the throws easily. Prisco agrees. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-combine-2018-josh-allen-shows-why-hes-worthy-of-being-the-no-1-overall-pick/ I watched a few minutes of the combine and Allen can make all the throws easily. Prisco agrees. The combine is literallly the worst place to see if he can "make the throws". When he's faced with defenses, he is miserable at throwing the ball. Worst accuracy in the draft class. If we draft this guy I will die. Also, it was hilarious watching guys just want to see him nail everything - they were drooling over his first go route, until they saw it fall 3 yards short of the receiver. Then they tailed off halfway through their compliment "...well, that one is a bit off..." Quote
Gramps Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 The combine is literallly the worst place to see if he can "make the throws". When he's faced with defenses, he is miserable at throwing the ball. Worst accuracy in the draft class. If we draft this guy I will die. Also, it was hilarious watching guys just want to see him nail everything - they were drooling over his first go route, until they saw it fall 3 yards short of the receiver. Then they tailed off halfway through their compliment "...well, that one is a bit off..." So was Favre ... Quote
Randall Flagg Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 So was Favre ... I'm not citing completion percentages. I don't care about their completion percentages. I think that's what you're referring to. But Favre could hit his receivers in games far better than Allen can. Allen is absolute dogshit when he isn't bombing 70 yard passes in shorts, or palming a basketball to show how big his hands are. ie, when he's doing anything that remotely resembles being a quarterback in an actual football game. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) I'm not citing completion percentages. I don't care about their completion percentages. I think that's what you're referring to. But Favre could hit his receivers in games far better than Allen can. Allen is absolute dogshit when he isn't bombing 70 yard passes in shorts, or palming a basketball to show how big his hands are. ie, when he's doing anything that remotely resembles being a quarterback in an actual football game.Not to mention, relying on total outliers probably isn't the best way to go about player evaluation. Unless anyone wants to advocate only drafting 6th round QBs because of Brady... You're still wrong about Jackson though :nana: Edited March 4, 2018 by TrueBlueGED Quote
pi2000 Posted March 4, 2018 Report Posted March 4, 2018 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-combine-2018-josh-allen-shows-why-hes-worthy-of-being-the-no-1-overall-pick/ I watched a few minutes of the combine and Allen can make all the throws easily. Prisco agrees. So could Jamarcus Russel. Quote
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