Fire Phil Fan Club

[LTS]

Agree to an extent, but I’d say this slightly oversimplifies things in the sense that there are issues to be addressed within the core itself, as well. Notably the progression of Ristolainen and Reinhart, and the long term viability of Okposo.

 

Also, I’d love to say improving the 3rd line will fix things, but there are gaping holes in the top 6 LW, as well.

 

I see no problems with Reinhart.  He's been playing as we would expect him to since Jan. 1.  He's looked good and more comfortable with how he's supposed to play and where is supposed to be on the ice.

 

Ristolainen is an interesting case.  I think he's simply trying too hard at this point.  There's no doubt he feels the need to be more than he is and as a result he's placing more pressure on himself and also trying to do more than he's capable of doing.  Frankly I think this plays out in how he wants to get chippy with people.  I think there's a level of frustration in his game that he takes out on the opposition.  He's not mentally sharp because he's still over complicating his game.  These might be things that clear up as the D and goaltending get shored up.  They might not be and he may end up only being a 3/4 D.  I don't think he needs to be moved from the team.

 

There is a need for another top level player.  The question is when does that player arrive?  I would think that we see Botterill go after one of them in the off-season.  I think Mittelstadt is tabbed to be another but not for 2 years.  So, next year improve via a UFA signing (or hoping one of the current prospects pans out) and then the year after you see the top 6 begin to bleed into the top 9 and that's a good problem to have.

[pi2000]

Wow.. this thread is still going?

 

Housley is not the problem.  The core group of players (whoever they are) are not the problem.

 

The problem is the absolute lack of secondary scoring, the sub-par defense, and goaltending.  

 

This team is worse this year because they had to learn a new way to play and it took some time for them to get it.  Whether it was through willfully resisting Housley or just getting everyone up to speed, who knows.  There were also a ton of new faces on the roster in secondary roles.

 

This team, with Eichel, would be winning a few more but we've seen a general uptick in the way they play.  The problem remains their ability to score from the bottom 6 and struggles on the back end that expose a goaltender who lets in soft goals.  There are issues in the locker room I am sure.  I am sure that some of them perhaps have been laid to rest via communication.  Some of them may pertain to Lehner and/or Kane and hopefully those will be removed soon.  Once this team can ice a 3rd line that requires the opposition to pay attention things should change.

 

You think they've gotten it?   What exactly is "it"?    Because if they've got "it".. then "it" doesn't seem to be working.

[LTS]

You think they've gotten it?   What exactly is "it"?    Because if they've got "it".. then "it" doesn't seem to be working.

 

C'mon, you know enough about hockey to see a completely different team on the ice now than the beginning of the year.  Just because they aren't winning doesn't mean they aren't playing better.

[pi2000]

C'mon, you know enough about hockey to see a completely different team on the ice now than the beginning of the year.  Just because they aren't winning doesn't mean they aren't playing better.

 

The assertion was that they're finally playing the way Housley wants them to.    I disagree.   Sure they're playing his system better than the beginning of the year, but IMO they have a long ways to go.   

[Gramps]

Wow.. this thread is still going?

 

Housley is not the problem.  The core group of players (whoever they are) are not the problem.

 

The problem is the absolute lack of secondary scoring, the sub-par defense, and goaltending.  

 

This team is worse this year because they had to learn a new way to play and it took some time for them to get it.  Whether it was through willfully resisting Housley or just getting everyone up to speed, who knows.  There were also a ton of new faces on the roster in secondary roles.

 

This team, with Eichel, would be winning a few more but we've seen a general uptick in the way they play.  The problem remains their ability to score from the bottom 6 and struggles on the back end that expose a goaltender who lets in soft goals.  There are issues in the locker room I am sure.  I am sure that some of them perhaps have been laid to rest via communication.  Some of them may pertain to Lehner and/or Kane and hopefully those will be removed soon.  Once this team can ice a 3rd line that requires the opposition to pay attention things should change.

 

Good post and I agree with everything except for the bolded. I consider Pominville to be part of the problem now, both 5-on-5 and on the power play. He is relatively useless and I don't know if he's tired and/or just has given up. I know we've got him for one more year, but if he continues on this path, he shouldn't even make the roster next year. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Pominville is certainly not part of the core, but he is part of the problem, in only that he can't offer much anymore.

[Weave]

You can’t really prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on your side of the argument. If you think he’s tuning out the coach, where is the evidence?

 

We don’t need evidence that he’s NOT tuning out the coach. Even if his commitment to a much more well rounded game is not evidence enough.

 

Are there specific things from this season that suggest Jack is tuning out Housley? If the argument is that he’s for now on “tuning out the coach until proven otherwise” because it’s theorized that he tuned out Bylsma, that seems kinda odd. I’m not sure how anyone can approach that other than to point to the current situation in which there’s literally no smoke where Jack is concerned.

 

Put another way: What could Jack do in your eyes differently from this season so far to prove he’s not tuning out the coach?

I don’t need to prove a damned thing. I’m offering an opinion, not a research paper. And the extent of my opinion was that I’m not inclined towards giving him the benefit of the doubt based on past history. YMMV

[That Aud Smell]

I don’t need to prove a damned thing. I’m offering an opinion, not a research paper. And the extent of my opinion was that I’m not inclined towards giving him the benefit of the doubt based on past history. YMMV

Well, if the idea is to debate (maybe it isn’t here?), then marshaling facts to support your take is ... a thing people do.

 

Eichel gave a nod to Phil’s being personable and how he works on relationship building, back in September.

 

Then, after a slow start, Eichel began a long stretch of his best play as a pro.

 

Doesn’t *seem* like a tune-out scenario for #15.

[Thorner]

I don’t need to prove a damned thing. I’m offering an opinion, not a research paper. And the extent of my opinion was that I’m not inclined towards giving him the benefit of the doubt based on past history. YMMV

Yup, knew this was coming.

 

I’ll refrain from inquiring for more depth on your takes in the future because I’m genuinely interested in your viewpoint. Carry on.

[Gramps]

Pominville is certainly not part of the core, but he is part of the problem, in only that he can't offer much anymore.

 

He is certainly part of the on ice core currently. I don't know anything about another core unless you're referring to players with long term contracts.

[erickompositör72]

Well, if the idea is to debate (maybe it isn’t here?), then marshaling facts to support your take is ... a thing people do.

 

Eichel gave a nod to Phil’s being personable and how he works on relationship building, back in September.

 

Then, after a slow start, Eichel began a long stretch of his best play as a pro.

 

Doesn’t *seem* like a tune-out scenario for #15.

 

Unless there is no correlation between his play and Housely's influence on him/the team

[Weave]

Thorny, let's review what led to this....

 

I would like nothing more than for Eichel to be *not* part of the problem. All available information seems to tell me that’s the case.

 

 

 

Agree with your first sentence. I’d say we have zero other than post game platitudes as evidence of the 2nd. I sure hope he isn’t among a group tuning out the coach, but he’s done it once so he doesn’t get my benefit of the doubt.

 

So, unless you are reading something into my post that just isn't there, I am not accusing Jack of anything.  I'm merely stating that he has a history that I'm not going to push aside and assume non-involvement.  I've not suggested he is part of the current problem.  

 

You can’t really prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on your side of the argument. If you think he’s tuning out the coach, where is the evidence?

We don’t need evidence that he’s NOT tuning out the coach. Even if his commitment to a much more well rounded game is not evidence enough.

Are there specific things from this season that suggest Jack is tuning out Housley? If the argument is that he’s for now on “tuning out the coach until proven otherwise” because it’s theorized that he tuned out Bylsma, that seems kinda odd. I’m not sure how anyone can approach that other than to point to the current situation in which there’s literally no smoke where Jack is concerned.

Put another way: What could Jack do in your eyes differently from this season so far to prove he’s not tuning out the coach?

 

Which is why this post was responded to the way it was.  I'm merely having conversation, and stating that he's not getting benefit of the doubt from me.  I don't know what you expect for proof when I've not offered a theory or a judgement here.  Frankly, you don't get to set the rules for burden of proof anyway.  This is bar room level conversation.  Posters setting rules is annoying.

 

 

Yup, knew this was coming.

I’ll refrain from inquiring for more depth on your takes in the future because I’m genuinely interested in your viewpoint. Carry on.

 

Which is why this is just being an ass.  Carry on.

Yup, knew this was coming.

I’ll refrain from inquiring for more depth on your takes in the future because I’m genuinely interested in your viewpoint. Carry on.

 

[That Aud Smell]

Unless there is no correlation between his play and Housely's influence on him/the team

Wut.

[That Aud Smell]

 

What is life, even.

[erickompositör72]

Wut.

 

He may be tuning out Housley and improving as a player.

 

in other words

 

Housley may not be responsible for his improved play

[PerreaultForever]

The assertion was that they're finally playing the way Housley wants them to.    I disagree.   Sure they're playing his system better than the beginning of the year, but IMO they have a long ways to go.   

Agreed. 

[hockeyhound]

Wow, already to throw the guy under the bus.

 

Granted it was a shi**y year; however, I really believe Coach Housley is a straight shooting, level headed, sincere coach, that will give you his best.

 

I enjoyed the fact that throughout the season Coach Housley had the respect of his peers.

 

Sure he probably woke up on occasion and felt like he was in over his head but, I still feel he's the right guy for the job.

 

It seems like we have a weird mix of players, and that's on the GM.

 

Give the guy a chance.

Edited February 22, 2018 by hockeyhound

[LTS]

The assertion was that they're finally playing the way Housley wants them to.    I disagree.   Sure they're playing his system better than the beginning of the year, but IMO they have a long ways to go.   

 

The (MY)  assertion was that it took time for them to get it.  They may not be executing it 100% but they didn't even understand it early in the season.  They were still playing the Bylsma way or so it appeared.  Then they tried to pull a defender into creating a 4 man rush but because they had no clue what they were doing they kept turning the puck over leading to odd-man rushes the other way.  We now see them hitting that 4th defender much more often and it leading to zone entry.

 

This happens less and less these days.  They can still execute the system and fail on the ice.  After all it's one thing to be in position and another thing to not have the ability to put the puck in the net, or keep the puck on your stick, or execute the pass that's required.  There are two parts to this... understanding what to do and being able to do it.  I would only state they understand what to do and that there is some talent needed to be able to execute it all the time.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

He is certainly part of the on ice core currently. I don't know anything about another core unless you're referring to players with long term contracts.

I view core as the players that have a reasonably good chance to be here long term and that are built around in order for the Sabres to be good again. I like Pominville, but he is not one of the core players.

[Gramps]

I view core as the players that have a reasonably good chance to be here long term and that are built around in order for the Sabres to be good again. I like Pominville, but he is not one of the core players.

 

Ok, who are your core players ? Eichel, O'Reilly, Okposo, Risto, McCabe ? I think the Sabres would trade Risto in a heartbeat for the right return. Same with Reinhart. 

[That Aud Smell]

He may be tuning out Housley and improving as a player.

 

in other words

 

Housley may not be responsible for his improved play

 

Then, like, what's even the point of a coach?

[Drunkard]

What is life, even.

 

To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their women.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Ok, who are your core players ? Eichel, O'Reilly, Okposo, Risto, McCabe ? I think the Sabres would trade Risto in a heartbeat for the right return. Same with Reinhart.

My core players are Eich, ROR, Risto, Samson and (wait for it) Kane. To be clear, those are MY core players and NOT who I think are the Sabres management's core players.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Sabersfläkt i NS

[Mustache of God]

If I had to define the "core", I'd limit to Eichel, ROR, and Okposo and he's only on this list because his contract is untradeable but unlike Bogo or Pommers he can still bring value if you build around him accordingly.

Risto and Reino could be in there but they could just as easily be traded to be replaced with potential core pieces.

[Radar]

If I had to define the "core", I'd limit to Eichel, ROR, and Okposo and he's only on this list because his contract is untradeable but unlike Bogo or Pommers he can still bring value if you build around him accordingly.

 

Risto and Reino could be in there but they could just as easily be traded to be replaced with potential core pieces.

This is pretty much my feeling.