GDT: Dallas Stars @ Buffalo Sabres, 1/20/2018, 1pm ET, MSG

[TrueBlueGED]

Freeman had it right: when you spend two full years with a goal of losing and couple that with a talent tear-down aimed at making sure that will happen, you create a culture that is incredibly hard to shake.

 

The team has more talent than its record, but the players expect to lose.

I'm sorry, but there isn't some permanent force of nature that has transcended a complete roster and management turnover. The team is just bad. It was poorly constructed for today's NHL, the mix of players is not appropriately complementary, and we drafted poorly for a decade.

[Scottysabres]

The wife called me in to see the last 2 minutes.

Ugly, just ugly.

Housley has some blame in this. I don't care how bad your chemistry is, 7 against is just putrid.

But the players themselves should be embarresed, completely ashamed of themselves.

[North Buffalo]

Housley should just resign out of frustration at the lack of talent. This is not coaching. The Sabres dont have enough hockey talent.

[calti]

Freeman had it right: when you spend two full years with a goal of losing and couple that with a talent tear-down aimed at making sure that will happen, you create a culture that is incredibly hard to shake.

 

The team has more talent than its record, but the players expect to lose.

agree completely with that.--look at the colts who did the greatest tank to get Luck. They did a perfect tank and im not sure they got such a great overall result.

even if we got McDavid we would still be in trouble.

[Randall Flagg]

11 losses in our last 14 hardly feels different.

It does to me: 

 

2015: 14 games, 0-14-0, 0 PTS, 21GF (1.5 per game), 61 GA (4.35 per game)

2018: 14 games, 3-9-2, 8 PTS, 31GF (2.21 per game) 51 GA (3.65 per game)

 

I mean it's still super but the difference between this stretch and that one is the difference between a first place team and a 25th place team for pretty much any similar stretch in a given NHL season

 

I guess my only real point is that this isn't so much a new low like it often feels like, as it is just not ever coming out of the real low like we had hoped we would.

[North Buffalo]

[quote name="Georgia Flakt" post

Maybe by a little bit? You are what your record says, by and large. We only have a few talented players. We are getting almost no production from the majority of the roster. The majority of the roster is terrible.

 

No they have a serious lack of talent up front, missing a piece or two on D and a goaltender. That is a lot of missing pieces.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Kottbullar

[Thorner]

Talent: Eichel, O’Reilly, Okposo, Reinhart, Kane, Ristolainen, Scandella.

 

Lacking talent: Pominville, Pouliot, Girgensons, Rodrigues, Larsson, Wilson, Nolan, McCabe, Falk, Gorges, Nelson, Lehner, Johnson.

 

These anchors are too much for the limited talent we have to overcome. They are all sitting in the back of the boat and the boat is sinking.

[Randall Flagg]

Just. No.

 

We're worse this year.

In what way? we score more goals, take more shots, allow fewer shots, are in less blowouts. We have a better power play and a better penalty kill. We're pacing to have a better record. The single metric we are worse in is team save percentage, and so we're on pace to allow a few more goals.

 

And the eye test is even nicer to this team. They actually play real hockey sometimes, that team was outshot 52 to 20 practically every game.

 

And Jack is 2 points from tying that team's leading scorer with 35 hockey games to go, so that also makes them easier to watch.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

 

It does to me: 

2015: 14 games, 0-14-0, 0 PTS, 21GF (1.5 per game), 61 GA (4.35 per game)

2018: 14 games, 3-9-2, 8 PTS, 31GF (2.21 per game) 51 GA (3.65 per game)

 

I mean it's still super ###### but the difference between this stretch and that one is the difference between a first place team and a 25th place team for pretty much any similar stretch in a given NHL season

I guess my only real point is that this isn't so much a new low like it often feels like, as it is just not ever coming out of the real low like we had hoped we would.

You are the Samwise to my Frodo.

 

We are still horrible.

I'm sorry, but there isn't some permanent force of nature that has transcended a complete roster and management turnover. The team is just bad. It was poorly constructed for today's NHL, the mix of players is not appropriately complementary, and we drafted poorly for a decade.

Yessir.

[dudacek]

Maybe by a little bit? You are what your record says, by and large. We only have a few talented players. We are getting almost no production from the majority of the roster. The majority of the roster is terrible.

I'm sorry, but there isn't some permanent force of nature that has transcended a complete roster and management turnover. The team is just bad. It was poorly constructed for today's NHL, the mix of players is not appropriately complementary, and we drafted poorly for a decade.

I can agree with this and still hold the opinion of my original post.

Losing creates doubt in self and others. More losing reinforces that.

The Sabres are bad because of lack of talent and they won’t get better until they get more talent.

But just getting more talent won’t make them better.

[calti]

who is the bigger disappointment this yr Sabres or Oilers?

[Sabel79]

.

But just getting more talent won’t make them better.

Won't hurt, though...

[Randall Flagg]

Sorry True, i agree with them on the tanking thing. It's a problem

 

Also, there's a narrative that the team played hard every night for Teds. Which is utter . This team plays way harder. That team knew they were supposed to lose and played like it. Skim those GDTs. It was the ugliest thing to ever happen in sports. This ain't even as bad as the Avs just last year. 

[Thorner]

I can agree with this and still hold the opinion of my original post.

Losing creates doubt in self and others. More losing reinforces that.

The Sabres are bad because of lack of talent and they won’t get better until they get more talent.

But just getting more talent won’t make them better.

Right. There are certainly a multitude of factors.

 

It’s just the law of diminishing returns with this team. We’ve invested so much that marginal improvement largely feels irrelevant.

[Swedesessed]

who is the bigger disappointment this yr Sabres or Oilers?

 

I have to say the Oilers.

 

The Oilers were a trendy Finals pick going into the year.

[Thorner]

Sorry True, i agree with them on the tanking thing. It's a problem

 

Also, there's a narrative that the team played hard every night for Teds. Which is utter ######. This team plays way harder. That team knew they were supposed to lose and played like it. Skim those GDTs. It was the ugliest thing to ever happen in sports. This ain't even as bad as the Avs just last year.

 

But lack of talent remains the biggest issue, no?

[SwampD]

In what way? we score more goals, take more shots, allow fewer shots, are in less blowouts. We have a better power play and a better penalty kill. We're pacing to have a better record. The single metric we are worse in is team save percentage, and so we're on pace to allow a few more goals.

 

And the eye test is even nicer to this team. They actually play real hockey sometimes, that team was outshot 52 to 20 practically every game.

 

And Jack is 2 points from tying that team's leading scorer with 35 hockey games to go, so that also makes them easier to watch.

Um, wins?

 

Points?

 

I know those don't really matter to stats you guys (c'mon, that's funny).

 

And if we score more goals (i'm not even sure that's true and don't care enough to look it up) it's not by any amount that matters.

[calti]

I can agree with this and still hold the opinion of my original post.

Losing creates doubt in self and others. More losing reinforces that.

The Sabres are bad because of lack of talent and they won’t get better until they get more talent.

But just getting more talent won’t make them better.

winning breeds winning. the sabres used to have a winning franchise until Pegula showed up.

[Randall Flagg]

Um, wins?

 

Points?

 

I know those don't really matter to stats you guys (c'mon, that's funny).

 

And if we score more goals (i'm not even sure that's true and don't care enough to look it up) it's not by any amount that matters.

Like I said, we are on pace to have more wins, points, and goals.

 

Edit: actually after the last two games that shifted on wins, but they'll finish with more. Points and goals still stands.

 

They're on pace for 32 more goals than they scored that season.

 

It doesn't matter in terms of expectations and entertainment, but it is objectively true that this team is notably better than that team. And you know me. I take any meaningless argument I can and go until I'm blue in the face.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[josie]

You might want to hold on to your seat because we still have to go lower.

 

We haven't reached the bottom yet but we have first class tickets to hockey hell.

 

What a nightmare, they should just forfeit the rest of the season, save on the electric bill and send everyone home to reflect.

 

Start over next year.

Oh it absolutely can get worse. We're not at mid 1970s Caps level yet. Or 1985-86 Red Wings. 

 

But I guess to me the bright spot is- it has to get better someday again. 

 

How? I don't know. I miss watching hockey. I miss being excited. 

People aren't throwing jerseys on the ice... yet. Is that next? What is next? 

[Swedesessed]

winning breeds winning. the sabres used to have a winning franchise until Pegula showed up.

 

Is it crazy to say that I yearn for the Golisano era?

[dudacek]

I think Randall’s above posts do a good job of showing how bad we were and how far we had to go.

 

Objectively, is the talent level of this team 40 to 50 points worse than the Knights?

It’s not just talent.

[Gramps]

 

 

Can’t speak for others, but I’ve never contended it was an effort issue with Sam, quite the opposite.

 

I’ll also contend that while his game by and large has been the same the last few, he’s had that little bit of extra spark in a few select moments - he’s made some really nice plays that resulted in goals. Production is all about those key moments, and his talent is peaking through the clouds a little bit more recently.

 

It’s all about execution. He’s executing a bit more, very positive sign.

 

 

The list of players needed to be turned over is huge. Nolan, Wilson, Larsson, Rodrigues, Girgensons, Pouliot, Pominville, McCabe, Falk, Gorges, Nelson, Lehner, Johnson. All guys I wouldn’t mind being shown the door.

 

It’s a talent issue. We need so much more. Botterill needs to get to work and start making some moves leading up to the deadline since so much turnover is needed.

 

Next game, count the number of times Reinhart is down on the seat of his pants.

[SwampD]

Like I said, we are on pace to have more wins, points, and goals.

 

Edit: actually after the last two games that shifted on wins, but they'll finish with more. Points and goals still stands.

 

They're on pace for 32 more goals than they scored that season.

 

It doesn't matter in terms of expectations and entertainment, but it is objectively true that this team is notably better than that team.

You also didn't mention that in that year, we had a couple of three game win streaks and even a four game win streak that had all the pro tankers clamoring to fire Nolans for trying. I don't think we've had one three game win streak this year.

 

You are giving this years team way too much credit. They are AWFUL.

Edited January 20, 2018 by SwampD

[calti]

Is it crazy to say that I yearn for the Golisano era?

re;peat after me.."paychex...,paychex,....paychex....."