GDT: Sabres @ Rangers, 1/18/2018, 7:30pm ET /NBCS

[Jacque Richard]

I’m sure if 40 is moved he will be disappointed , NOT

[WildCard]

I thought they played pretty good tonight. 2 bonehead plays by McCabe, 1 by Nelson, and 2 by Lehner.

 

McCabe seems to be getting worse and worse by the game. Thought Housley would help his development... is there any player you can look at and say they've improved under Housley?

Risto

[LTS]

Most players when they leave Buffalo play better. I blame coaching for not recognizing what each players strengths are and how to get the most out of each.

 

Really?  So, it's every coaches fault?  I mean Housley hasn't even had a chance for a player to leave Buffalo and you are blaming him.  Bylsma had a few players leave from under him, which ones are lighting up the league right now?  Is it a prospect who needed time to develop and might have developed in Buffalo anyway?  Is it a veteran who was paired with someone who made them better?

 

How many players over the past 5 years has anyone on this forum wished to have back?  I'd probably only put Vanek in that conversation and the dude was good when he was here.

 

I wonder if it would kill some people to accept that it's possible for one to find Lehner, and the rest of the team, to be bad all at the same time? Why do I have to keep reading a bunch of either/or arguments?

 

C'mon, people think it's one or the other in politics, why can't it be true in hockey?

 

Nice avatar!

 

But even at our current 56 point pace (OMG) I think you're going to be väntaring for a long time.

 

The odds just aren't that good!  

 

Having the best odds is about all you can ask for... every other team has lesser odds of getting the #1 pick (except Arizona).  Just the way it goes.

 

 

Okay, onto other things..

 

It's interesting watching the dynamics of this forum and the frustration of the group of people on here at what is happening with the Sabres.  There was a lot of hope and desire that some trades might have been made over the last break and when it didn't happen it feels like everyone grew even more frustrated.  Why?  Because they know the current team, can't win.  No one can pinpoint why, everyone has an opinion, and if anyone disagrees then it starts a virtual holy war.

 

I would imagine its the same way in the locker room right now.  This team is frustrated because they aren't winning.  They all have a really good idea of what needs to change, but they are powerless to change it.  They all probably hoped that a trade or two would occur to remove some of the problems from the team and bring in some new blood.  Kane had his opportunities last night but he's not going to go barreling into a corner and break something like he did last year. His best interest is to stay healthy and get traded (he knows he will be traded) and make a splash on the new team for the rest of the season and into the playoffs.  This would maximize his UFA deal.  Lehner knows he's going to be traded or that at the very least it is unlikely he will be on this team next year.  He has less control over his contract situation but he's not going to be interested in killing himself for a group of guys who do not feel the same way.  There are others on the team who probably feel similarly.  Overall, it is clear that the team is anything but a team.  I don't think the defense likes Lehner very much because they feel like he's overplaying the puck and causing situations that shouldn't exist.  I am sure Lehner feels similarly about the D because they are allowing shooters in on net and when there are crease battles no one is interested in clearing bodies.  

 

If a goaltender and D do not have each others backs then you will lose.  Both will look bad and both are to blame.  Lehner's best games are when he controls his body and his movments.  We've talked about that before.  He had his moments this year when he was playing a "quiet" game. He probably feels he has to bail out his team so he's being overaggressive and that's costing him.  At the same time, he's solely responsible for the hole over his glove.  That's the first place every player is looking to shoot on him and many goals are going in.  Lehner has to fix this problem.  I've no faith in the Sabres goalie coach at the moment though.  He should be helping him fix this and it's clear that both goaltenders have had issues.  Johnson has played better elsewhere and even in Buffalo.  The goalie coach has a lot to do with the small things that need to be worked out.

 

The D is bad.  We should all just accept this.  Nelson has a long way to go.  He can't handle the speed of the NHL.  McCabe is still learning and he has his good days and bad.  Risto and Scandella are good but I see them giving up a lot of space on the ice at times and certainly allowing shots on net. I'm not sure Risto really likes Lehner very much.  The D is a problem.. but we have known the D is a problem.  Is it better than last year?  Absolutely... but it's nowhere near fixed.  Until it is, you will have issues on the back end.

 

On a team that's losing and going nowhere and where they expect as many as 8-9 players to be potentially be traded (Lehner, Falk, Gorges, Pouliot, Kane, ROR, Reinhart, Girgensons, Larsson) you can't expect too much enthusiasm in the locker room.  I don't want to hear professional this and that crap.  If you've ever worked in a company where you know people are going to be let go you know what morale is like.  You know what kind of effort many people put in during that time period.  Uncertainty drives a lack of effort because everyone wants to see where things are going.  Be honest, if Botterill flubs the trades in the eyes of the remaining players how motivated do you think Eichel will be?  Is it his fault?  Well, you can blame him for signing a long term contract sure, but he put his faith in the ownership and management to help turn the team around.  If they demonstrate they can't then every player will want to get off the team.  Just like every employee wants to leave a company that is failing.

 

This is the nature of the situation of the Sabres.  I don't suspect they will get better after the trades are made since no trades will be made with the sole purpose of being to improve the team this year.

[SwampD]

I thought it was a pretty good game.

 

Why ROR let that guy skate in uncontested for the game winner is a hard to comprehend.

Jack with a feeble stick check on another goal was also a head-scratcher.

Is it Phil's game plan to not take the body in front of the net or do the players just not care?

I thought we were better when we played a heavier game. It's way more fun to watch than the bag skates the NHL has become.

I thought Reinhart played a great game.

[inkman]

Most players when they leave Buffalo play better.

Is this accurate?

 

Vanek - no

Pominville - no

Roy - no

Brier - same

Drury - No

Myers - no

Grigorenko - no

Zadorov - maybe

Stafford - no

 

 

There are dozens more. I don't know if the premise is accurate. It seems like something fans just say.

[Stoner]

Is this accurate?

 

Vanek - no

Pominville - no

Roy - no

Brier - same

Drury - No

Myers - no

Grigorenko - no

Zadorov - maybe

Stafford - no

 

 

There are dozens more. I don't know if the premise is accurate. It seems like something fans just say.

This'll be fun.

 

Miller - no

 

Ruff - no

[SwampD]

Maybe Biron.

[Doohicksie]

I thought it was a pretty good game.

 

Why ROR let that guy skate in uncontested for the game winner is a hard to comprehend.

Jack with a feeble stick check on another goal was also a head-scratcher.

Is it Phil's game plan to not take the body in front of the net or do the players just not care?

I thought we were better when we played a heavier game. It's way more fun to watch than the bag skates the NHL has become.

I thought Reinhart played a great game.

 

I didn't post during the game due to reasons, and decided to see what everything thought of the game.  This last page of the GDT is nothing but venting (to be expected I guess, but it's pretty ugly guys... you talk about a divided locker room?  This is a divided forum which is kind of ridiculous since none of you is in a position to effect change on the team)... except for this post.  It agrees with my impression of the game.

 

I kind of give Jack a pass on the goal that bounced back off the end boards though; that's not typical action for the puck in that arena (according to the announcers).  Jack was covering his man well, if his man was going to be chasing a puck below the goal line.  It was just a perfect (for the Rags) bounce.  Just one of those things.

[Eleven]

Think about how many players that have left Buffalo and have won the Cup or players that left and played better hockey than when they played in Buffalo.

 

I can think of just as many who played worse.  

[LTS]

I thought it was a pretty good game.

 

Why ROR let that guy skate in uncontested for the game winner is a hard to comprehend.

Jack with a feeble stick check on another goal was also a head-scratcher.

Is it Phil's game plan to not take the body in front of the net or do the players just not care?

I thought we were better when we played a heavier game. It's way more fun to watch than the bag skates the NHL has become.

I thought Reinhart played a great game.

 

The goal where Nash beats Eichel to the puck is an unfortunate situation.  Eichel is on front of the net, where he should be.  This immediately necessitates that any puck coming off the end board would be closer to Nash than Eichel.  I can't really blame him there.  Lehner was out cutting down the angle and it deflected away from the shot lane to the end boards.  It's a bounce thing and I am not sure you can do much about it.

 

I think the players would take the body more if it weren't Lehner.  I believe they took more bodies out when Ullmark was in net.  Perhaps it was observer bias... perhaps not?

[woods-racer]

The goal where Nash beats Eichel to the puck is an unfortunate situation.  Eichel is on front of the net, where he should be.  This immediately necessitates that any puck coming off the end board would be closer to Nash than Eichel.  I can't really blame him there.  Lehner was out cutting down the angle and it deflected away from the shot lane to the end boards.  It's a bounce thing and I am not sure you can do much about it.

 

I think the players would take the body more if it weren't Lehner.  I believe they took more bodies out when Ullmark was in net.  Perhaps it was observer bias... perhaps not?

 

A bias ?

 

Yes I think it is. The bias may be a result of Ullmark's better rebound control though, more than a like/dislike of a player. Ullmark didn't leave a juicy rebound to an open opposing team player like Lehner is prone to do, so it may seem the defense is doing their job better.

[SwampD]

The goal where Nash beats Eichel to the puck is an unfortunate situation.  Eichel is on front of the net, where he should be.  This immediately necessitates that any puck coming off the end board would be closer to Nash than Eichel.  I can't really blame him there.  Lehner was out cutting down the angle and it deflected away from the shot lane to the end boards.  It's a bounce thing and I am not sure you can do much about it.

 

I think the players would take the body more if it weren't Lehner.  I believe they took more bodies out when Ullmark was in net.  Perhaps it was observer bias... perhaps not?

That may be true. I just don't see how it matters with regard to style of play. I really can't see a situation in front of the net where playing the man and not the puck isn't the right choice, I mean, unless they really just don't like Lehner and so just don't care enough to try.

[Doohicksie]

A bias ?

 

Yes I think it is. The bias may be a result of Ullmark's better rebound control though, more than a like/dislike of a player. Ullmark didn't leave a juicy rebound to an open opposing team player like Lehner is prone to do, so it may seem the defense is doing their job better.

 

Ullmark leaves rebounds, but they tend to lay right in front of him, predictably enough that the defense knows where to move the opposing forwards.  Lehner sprays them around and sometimes they go right to a opponent for an easy tap-in.

[LTS]

A bias ?

 

Yes I think it is. The bias may be a result of Ullmark's better rebound control though, more than a like/dislike of a player. Ullmark didn't leave a juicy rebound to an open opposing team player like Lehner is prone to do, so it may seem the defense is doing their job better.

 

Yea.. it's a fair point.  I have in my head a few situations where the puck was in the crease around Ullmark and the players went nuts on bodies.  I feel like that didn't happen around Lehner.. but as I said.. it could be me.  It could also be that the players felt that they HAD to protect Ullmark because he was on call up.  I don't know that I believe that.. but it's possible.

[Doohicksie]

Yea.. it's a fair point.  I have in my head a few situations where the puck was in the crease around Ullmark and the players went nuts on bodies.  I feel like that didn't happen around Lehner.. but as I said.. it could be me.  It could also be that the players felt that they HAD to protect Ullmark because he was on call up.  I don't know that I believe that.. but it's possible.

 

I think it comes down to rebound control.  Look at Ullmark, the puck always drops right in front of him.  He may have to fish around to find it and freeze it, but it's always there, so the defense knows where to move the opponents away from.  With Lehner he gets more random caroms.  Where do you move the attackers to make things safe?  Hard to say until the puck falls.  You have no idea where the danger zone is with Lehner.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Anordning

[SwampD]

Was Lehner's rebound control really that bad last night?

[Doohicksie]

Seems like it always is.  It seems like a big percentage of goals are rebounds that an opposing player gets to first.

I wouldn't say yesterday's game was especially bad in that respect, it was typical.

[erickompositör72]

Also, when the puck bounces off Lehner about 3-4 feet away, he doesn't have the quickness/reflexes/instincts to grab it and cover it up, like Ullmark was doing. Instead, Lehner just stays on his knees, as if temporarily paralyzed. He then winds up to make is next move, but by the time he's actually re-oriented, the puck is in the net.

[WildCard]

https://twitter.com/Matt_Bove/status/954174511577890816

[Doohicksie]

It was shocking to me at the time that they called offsetting penalties.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Was Lehner's rebound control really that bad last night?

Worse

[Doohicksie]

Worse

 

It's always that bad though.  It was nothing new.

[rakish]

https://twitter.com/Matt_Bove/status/954174511577890816

 

I think that ought to be 4 minutes for embellishment, since he probably drew blood

[LTS]

I think it comes down to rebound control.  Look at Ullmark, the puck always drops right in front of him.  He may have to fish around to find it and freeze it, but it's always there, so the defense knows where to move the opponents away from.  With Lehner he gets more random caroms.  Where do you move the attackers to make things safe?  Hard to say until the puck falls.  You have no idea where the danger zone is with Lehner.

 

Yes and no.  Dropping a rebound in front of you invites players to the place on the ice you don't want them.  The need to clear bodies from the net is when there is a crease battle and if you put the puck there without freezing it you will certainly get one.  Lehner's rebounds end up all over the place including the crease.  It's a fair shot that you don't know where to move a player at times because of his rebound control but my premise was that when the puck is in the crease the players seemed to move the opposition bodies with more aggression for Ullmark than they did Lehner.  

[Doohicksie]

My point is that if Ullmark is more consistent with where the rebounds end up, the Dmen have more purpose when they're clearing out.  With Lehner they're trying to locate the puck first.

 

But you could be right.