Reinhart: One of the Core?

[TheAud]

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

Totally agree, and along the lines of finding an example, one did come to mind and in checking out the basic stats, it's somewhat interesting, and I hope not predictive:

 

Sam Reinhart: First 203 NHL GP = 0.22 Goals/Game, 0.28 Assists/Game, 0.48 Points/Game 

 

Former Sabre: First 212 NHL GP = 0.22 Goals/Game, 0.30 Assists/Game, 0.51 Points/Game

Remainder of Career 335 NHL GP = 0.14 Goals/Game, 0.24 Assists/Game, 0.39 Points/Game

I.e. he dropped from a 42 point/season guy to a 32 point/season guy after the first 2-3 years. 

 

 

 

It's Brian Holzinger 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Sakman

[darksabre]

Nicely done.

[jsb]

IMO he was drafted to be optimistically a 1st line Center

Realistically a 2nd line Center

Worst case scenario a 3rd line Center

He's none of these or doesn't appear to have the skill set to play there at this level

 

As a winger, he needs good players to make him look good 

As opposed to him making good players better or any type of players better

He never flashes any type of skill where you go DANG what a great play

He never looks like he's the best player on his line no matter what it is 1 thru 4

He's not physical although he does have some size

He's next to awful on the boards

 

Points are important but what is it that he's exceptional at OR very good at

No matter how you look at it, he's a disappointment as a 2nd pick in the draft

Core because we still have hope

Long term Core?? He'll have to step up his game big time to achieve this

[Tondas]

Totally agree, and along the lines of finding an example, one did come to mind and in checking out the basic stats, it's somewhat interesting, and I hope not predictive:

 

Sam Reinhart: First 203 NHL GP = 0.22 Goals/Game, 0.28 Assists/Game, 0.48 Points/Game 

 

Former Sabre: First 212 NHL GP = 0.22 Goals/Game, 0.30 Assists/Game, 0.51 Points/Game

Remainder of Career 335 NHL GP = 0.14 Goals/Game, 0.24 Assists/Game, 0.39 Points/Game

I.e. he dropped from a 42 point/season guy to a 32 point/season guy after the first 2-3 years. 

 

 

 

It's Brian Holzinger 

 

Ouch.  Very sobering.  I was a STH through the Holzinger years.  Good comparison (not for Sam or Sabres fans though).

[darksabre]

Thing about Holzinger is that he was a 6th round pick. He basically exceeded expectations even once be fell back to Earth. Sam doesn't have that luxury of lowered expectations.

[Carmel Corn]

Holzinger at least had a little speed.

[Tondas]

Thing about Holzinger is that he was a 6th round pick. He basically exceeded expectations even once be fell back to Earth. Sam doesn't have that luxury of lowered expectations.

 

Agree.   With Sam, he's past the point of potential and expectations, and must be rated on performance.  His performance is that of Holzinger.

[Weave]

IMO he was drafted to be optimistically a 1st line Center

Realistically a 2nd line Center

Worst case scenario a 3rd line Center

He's none of these or doesn't appear to have the skill set to play there at this level

 

As a winger, he needs good players to make him look good 

As opposed to him making good players better or any type of players better

He never flashes any type of skill where you go DANG what a great play

He never looks like he's the best player on his line no matter what it is 1 thru 4

He's not physical although he does have some size

He's next to awful on the boards

 

Points are important but what is it that he's exceptional at OR very good at

No matter how you look at it, he's a disappointment as a 2nd pick in the draft

Core because we still have hope

Long term Core?? He'll have to step up his game big time to achieve this

 

Sam may need to re-invent his game to be a success in the NHL.  The skills that made him a top prospect aren't translating in the NHL.  He might have to go out of character and become something he didn't want to be.  He may have to concentrate on the defensive part of the game and become a specialist, because he's not showing that he can be a consistent key player in a top 6 role.

[TheAud]

So a counter point to my Holzinger - Reinhart comparison is that age-wise, Reinhart's entire 200+ game sample occurs prior to Holzinger's first game in the NHL. An age equivalent comparison is (approximately) Reinhart's NHL career thus far vs. Holzinger's Sophomore to Senior year at Bowling Green. 

 

I agree with We've that Reinhart needs to re-invent himself however part of it may simply be hitting the weight room, the right diet, and continuing to work on his speed. A strong defensive game would also make him useful as a 3rd line guy who can fill-in on the top 2 lines when needed. Sam probably needs to be on a pretty good team to succeed and unless he's traded that's not what we're looking at for awhile.  

[Gramps]

So a counter point to my Holzinger - Reinhart comparison is that age-wise, Reinhart's entire 200+ game sample occurs prior to Holzinger's first game in the NHL. An age equivalent comparison is (approximately) Reinhart's NHL career thus far vs. Holzinger's Sophomore to Senior year at Bowling Green. 

 

I agree with We've that Reinhart needs to re-invent himself however part of it may simply be hitting the weight room, the right diet, and continuing to work on his speed. A strong defensive game would also make him useful as a 3rd line guy who can fill-in on the top 2 lines when needed. Sam probably needs to be on a pretty good team to succeed and unless he's traded that's not what we're looking at for awhile.  

 

Interesting ... his brother seems to suffer from that speed issue as well. 

 

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/no-prospect-has-dropped-in-rankings-like-griffin-reinhart-of-edmonton-oilers

[mjd1001]

I'm OK with Sam getting traded. 

 

The thing is, the NHL if a faster league than it was a few years ago, and it looks like it is going to stay that way.  You can get away with a couple of your top players being below average speed, but not too many of them. Of the Sabres top 5 forward (Kane, Eichel, Okposo, Sam, and O'Reilly), Kane looks like he won't be here next year.  That leaves Sam, ROR, and Okposo that are all below average speed and in the transition game. Which one is the easiest to trade/move?  Probably Sam.

[Marvelo]

What core? 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Marvelo

[GoPuckYourself]

I would expect if the Sabres got a decent offer for Reinhart then GM  Botteril would definitely take the offer, he's most likely a 30 point per season player, I'm not so much concerned about his speed but his 11 points so far this season is quite alarming even for a new system, the guy is a former #2 overall pick and should not have to have elite players for him to succeed. IMO even more so then Reinhart I'd like to see Kane traded at the deadline or before, I know some on here are adamant about keeping him but the fact he's only had one 30 goal season for the raise he's about to get won't be worth it and I'd like the Sabres to cash in because once this kid gets the contract, I believe he'll never live up to it. I'd love for us to get a decent Dman with some years still left on his contract so we can then draft the Russian RW Andrei Svechnikov who is not only big, can score but he has great speed to boot.