Reinhart: One of the Core?

[WildCard]

The Buffalo Sabres continue to build for the future, the Pittsburgh Penguins are in win-now mode, and it’s entirely possible the two franchises could become a match on the NHL trade market before too long.

 

The two teams were discussed during a Friday afternoon radio hit for Insider Elliotte Friedman on Edmonton’s 630 CHED.

 

“Jason Botterill has made it very clear that they’re open for business,” said Friedman when asked about the Sabres.”I think there’s a few teams in on Evander Kane, there’s no question about that. He’s going to have a lot of interest. I think they’ve set a pretty high price too. I think we’ve talked about it before.

 

“ … I think Buffalo has got everyone on the table except for Eichel. Now look, if you’re going to ask about Reinhart or Ristolainen, you better come big. But other than that, I think they’re willing to talk about a lot of things.

 

“It’s interesting. I do think that Jim Rutherford is a guy who has talked before many times about he doesn’t like waiting until the deadline. He likes to go early, right. I think he’s going to do something. I do think Pittsburgh right now is the team to watch.

 

“He made a couple of small moves this week. But I do think we’re getting to the point sooner rather than later when Jim Rutherford goes out and says, ‘Alright, this is what we’re doing to win our third consecutive Stanley Cup.’ And I wouldn’t be surprised if Kane was a guy on their radar.”

 

Friedman hinted at something potentially significant with the Penguins earlier in the week too.

 

“I think the hammer is going to drop there,” he said Tuesday before the holiday trade freeze took effect. “Maybe not now, but it will. I think they’re looking to do some pretty major surgery.”

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/friedman-considers-trade-mindset-for-sabres-and-penguins/

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm not really sure what the linked article has to with the topic title, but I'll play.

 

I think that Samson is part of the core of the Sabres.  I would be surprised if he is traded.  I just hope they don't ruin this kid by the continuing jerking him around.

[7+6=13]

I'm not really sure what the linked article has to with the topic title, but I'll play.

 

I think that Samson is part of the core of the Sabres.  I would be surprised if he is traded.  I just hope they don't ruin this kid by the continuing jerking him around.

 

Not being smart but what do you mean by jerking Sam around?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Not being smart but what do you mean by jerking Sam around?

 

The constant changes to who he is playing with.

[dudacek]

To the question posed in the title: Until we can acquire better players by trading him.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Mick O’Manly

[7+6=13]

The constant changes to who he is playing with.

 

They've been doing that with everyone though.  I haven't seen the same lines for 3 games in a row. This is what leads me to believe this is a "see what we have" season and build the team from there.  I do think they've made an effort to put Sam in position to see where he can succeed and IMO hasn't shown where or who he should be playing with.

[Wyldnwoody44]

That's because he can't succeed, not this year anyways..... He gets until the end of the year to show he is able to keep up in this "system" of he becomes an off season dealing in my eyes.

[Thorner]

https://www.fanragsports.com/friedman-considers-trade-mindset-for-sabres-and-penguins/

“ … I think Buffalo has got everyone on the table except for Eichel. Now look, if you’re going to ask about Reinhart or Ristolainen, you better come big. But other than that, I think they’re willing to talk about a lot of things.

 

So I guess we aren't trading Reinhart, then. At least not anytime soon. With his current season, I doubt anyone "comes big" on a trade offer.

[Tondas]

My concern with Sam is his speed.  He is noticeably slower than the competition (and his peers).  EROD has 1/2 the skill of Sam but doesn't look as out of place.  I think Sam is as fast as he is going to get, while the NHL will continue to get faster.  Trade him a "year too soon" (and take the risk of him becoming a star) rather than waiting another year where others won't have come big at all.

[Taro T]

My concern with Sam is his speed.  He is noticeably slower than the competition (and his peers).  EROD has 1/2 the skill of Sam but doesn't look as out of place.  I think Sam is as fast as he is going to get, while the NHL will continue to get faster.  Trade him a "year too soon" (and take the risk of him becoming a star) rather than waiting another year where others won't have come big at all.

Reinhart's speed is only disconcerting when he's on the ice w/ other non-speedsters. His lack of speed was not noticeable, IMHO, last night when he was out with Eichel & Girgensons.

 

Yes, that line didn't score (for all intents & purposes) but they kept the puck in the Phlyers end for sustained pressure & were a very integral part of the victory. Again, IMHO.

 

Hoping Housley keeps them together for a while.

[erickompositör72]

Yes, that line didn't score (for all intents & purposes) but they kept the puck in the Phlyers end for sustained pressure & were a very integral part of the victory. Again, IMHO.

 

agree 100%

 

Re:speed-

 

I think Reinhart has adequate speed to be part of a rush, but he just needs time to build up the speed (he doesn't have good acceleration).

 

He does, though, lack a 3rd gear. His 2nd gear is adequate for a rush, but not enough to blow by someone

 

I think, through junior, etc, he didn't have to be fast to score goals. So, he didn't even worry about it (similarly to Jack not having to worry about play away from the puck before getting to the NHL). I watch Samson with the puck, and he just coasts. He probably could play at a faster pace, but has just not developed that as part of his game. The sad thing is, he doesn't seem to be trying to. Last night, I saw him receive a pass after he had built up speed, and I thought, wow, he looks good flying down the right wing- why doesn't he do that more often?

 

I think it will take a concerted effort of focusing on how to inject more speed into his game, and then understanding how to integrate that into the new system. Basically, I think there are a lot of other factors contributing to his lack of speed- not just a physical deficiency.

[R_Dudley]

My concern with Sam is his speed.  He is noticeably slower than the competition (and his peers).  EROD has 1/2 the skill of Sam but doesn't look as out of place.  I think Sam is as fast as he is going to get, while the NHL will continue to get faster.  Trade him a "year too soon" (and take the risk of him becoming a star) rather than waiting another year where others won't have come big at all.

Sam is still young and with proper training why can’t he still get better at a lot of things including a bit faster. I for one would like him to add some muscle to his frame and he could be a lot harder on the forecheck. I think it would create more space for him if he added some Grit to his game like his bud Kane. Maybe Kane’s could teach him boxing.

 

Now that’s a role model I would take on my team.

[Carmel Corn]

Sam is still young and with proper training why can’t he still get better at a lot of things including a bit faster. I for one would like him to add some muscle to his frame and he could be a lot harder on the forecheck. I think it would create more space for him if he added some Grit to his game like his bud Kane. Maybe Kane’s could teach him boxing.

 

Now that’s a role model I would take on my team.

 

Sam will never have an "edge" to his game...he is highly contact-averse and will not be the type of player who will initiate contact on the forecheck.   Add to that his lack of speed and there is no chance he can be anything close to Kane's style of play.

 

Decent hands yes...somewhat effective camped in front also.....but a minimally effective player in today's game.  Trade him while you can get something for him.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Carmel Corn

[Tondas]

Sam will never have an "edge" to his game...he is highly contact-averse and will not be the type of player who will initiate contact on the forecheck.   Add to that his lack of speed and there is no chance he can be anything close to Kane's style of play.

 

Decent hands yes...somewhat effective camped in front also.....but a minimally effective player in today's game.  Trade him while you can get something for him.

Agree with all of this especially, "Trade him while you can get something for him."  IMO, Sam is not going to turn into anything more than he is today.  The risk is not him turning into Ovechkin if we trade him.  The risk is holding on to him too long and he becomes little value to any other GM.

[TrueBlueGED]

Reinhart's speed is only disconcerting when he's on the ice w/ other non-speedsters. His lack of speed was not noticeable, IMHO, last night when he was out with Eichel & Girgensons.

 

Yes, that line didn't score (for all intents & purposes) but they kept the puck in the Phlyers end for sustained pressure & were a very integral part of the victory. Again, IMHO.

 

Hoping Housley keeps them together for a while.

Agree 100%. That line did some great work.

agree 100%

 

Re:speed-

 

I think Reinhart has adequate speed to be part of a rush, but he just needs time to build up the speed (he doesn't have good acceleration).

 

He does, though, lack a 3rd gear. His 2nd gear is adequate for a rush, but not enough to blow by someone

 

I think, through junior, etc, he didn't have to be fast to score goals. So, he didn't even worry about it (similarly to Jack not having to worry about play away from the puck before getting to the NHL). I watch Samson with the puck, and he just coasts. He probably could play at a faster pace, but has just not developed that as part of his game. The sad thing is, he doesn't seem to be trying to. Last night, I saw him receive a pass after he had built up speed, and I thought, wow, he looks good flying down the right wing- why doesn't he do that more often?

 

I think it will take a concerted effort of focusing on how to inject more speed into his game, and then understanding how to integrate that into the new system. Basically, I think there are a lot of other factors contributing to his lack of speed- not just a physical deficiency.

Also agree with this. His speed is not an asset, and maybe it is part of what ultimately prevents him from being an effective NHL center. But it's certainly adequate. He's not Larsson skating out there.

[Gramps]

agree 100%

 

Re:speed-

 

I think Reinhart has adequate speed to be part of a rush, but he just needs time to build up the speed (he doesn't have good acceleration).

 

He does, though, lack a 3rd gear. His 2nd gear is adequate for a rush, but not enough to blow by someone

 

I think, through junior, etc, he didn't have to be fast to score goals. So, he didn't even worry about it (similarly to Jack not having to worry about play away from the puck before getting to the NHL). I watch Samson with the puck, and he just coasts. He probably could play at a faster pace, but has just not developed that as part of his game. The sad thing is, he doesn't seem to be trying to. Last night, I saw him receive a pass after he had built up speed, and I thought, wow, he looks good flying down the right wing- why doesn't he do that more often?

 

I think it will take a concerted effort of focusing on how to inject more speed into his game, and then understanding how to integrate that into the new system. Basically, I think there are a lot of other factors contributing to his lack of speed- not just a physical deficiency.

 

Just as in the NFL scouting combine (40 yd dash), you would think skating speed and agility on ice would be tested in the NHL combine. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Gramps

[TrueBlueGED]

Just as in the NFL scouting combine (40 yd dash), you would think skating speed and agility on ice would be tested in the NHL combine.

Please no. I wish the NFL would abolish the 40.

[Thorner]

Agree 100%. That line did some great work.

 

Also agree with this. His speed is not an asset, and maybe it is part of what ultimately prevents him from being an effective NHL center. But it's certainly adequate. He's not Larsson skating out there.

I find myself agreeing as well.

 

It just seems like there are several individual factors coming together to render him an ineffective player. I want to believe he can turn it around, but at least a half season in to it, I'm starting to wonder why I should put much stock in anything other than actual production.

 

At some point it needs to be about the results. I suppose it's up for debate as to when that is.

[TrueBlueGED]

I find myself agreeing as well.

 

It just seems like there are several individual factors coming together to render him an ineffective player. I want to believe he can turn it around, but at least a half season in to it, I'm starting to wonder why I should put much stock in anything other than actual production.

 

At some point it needs to be about the results. I suppose it's up for debate as to when that is.

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

 

Reinhart likely won't ever be what we want and, in the context of the rebuild needed him to be, but he shouldn't be flung overboard either.

[erickompositör72]

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

 

Reinhart likely won't ever be what we want and, in the context of the rebuild needed him to be, but he shouldn't be flung overboard either.

 

I think he could have a Moulson-like career, with the right center. If that turns out, I'm not incorrect in saying many #2 overall's haven't had Moulson's career numbers, right?

[Taro T]

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

Reinhart likely won't ever be what we want and, in the context of the rebuild needed him to be, but he shouldn't be flung overboard either.

  

 

He's not able to drive a line but it's not like he's riding in the back seat or trunk when he gets to play with skilled players. He rides shotgun. But you need somebody competent to ride shotgun to have a fun trip.

 

I think he could have a Moulson-like career, with the right center. If that turns out, I'm not incorrect in saying many #2 overall's haven't had Moulson's career numbers, right?

He's got a different skill set & I expect his peak to be slightly higher than Moulson's provided he gets to play w/ Eichel or a Tavares, but that's a very fair analogy.

[Thorner]

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

Reinhart likely won't ever be what we want and, in the context of the rebuild needed him to be, but he shouldn't be flung overboard either.

Fair.

 

But if he puts up a point total in the 20s this season, we need to realistically start seeing him as potentially a 30 point forward. After all, this season would make up a third of the sample size. So the picture looks a little less rosy.

[Huckleberry]

Hope we don't trade him, shouldn't trade an awesome name like Samson.

[Thorner]

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

Reinhart likely won't ever be what we want and, in the context of the rebuild needed him to be, but he shouldn't be flung overboard either.

Cody Hodgson would be one familiar example. But he did have injury concerns.

[nfreeman]

agree 100%

 

Re:speed-

 

I think Reinhart has adequate speed to be part of a rush, but he just needs time to build up the speed (he doesn't have good acceleration).

 

He does, though, lack a 3rd gear. His 2nd gear is adequate for a rush, but not enough to blow by someone

 

I think, through junior, etc, he didn't have to be fast to score goals. So, he didn't even worry about it (similarly to Jack not having to worry about play away from the puck before getting to the NHL). I watch Samson with the puck, and he just coasts. He probably could play at a faster pace, but has just not developed that as part of his game. The sad thing is, he doesn't seem to be trying to. Last night, I saw him receive a pass after he had built up speed, and I thought, wow, he looks good flying down the right wing- why doesn't he do that more often?

 

I think it will take a concerted effort of focusing on how to inject more speed into his game, and then understanding how to integrate that into the new system. Basically, I think there are a lot of other factors contributing to his lack of speed- not just a physical deficiency.

 

Optimistic, but interesting and certainly possible.

 

 

Sam is still young and with proper training why can’t he still get better at a lot of things including a bit faster. I for one would like him to add some muscle to his frame and he could be a lot harder on the forecheck. I think it would create more space for him if he added some Grit to his game like his bud Kane. Maybe Kane’s could teach him boxing.

 

Now that’s a role model I would take on my team.

 

This too.

 

Agree with all of this especially, "Trade him while you can get something for him."  IMO, Sam is not going to turn into anything more than he is today.  The risk is not him turning into Ovechkin if we trade him.  The risk is holding on to him too long and he becomes little value to any other GM.

 

The problem is that he looks bad enough that this is certainly possible too.

 

 

His first two years shouldn't cease to exist because he's sucked this year so far. At this point I've pretty much accepted he's a) not a center and b) not what you'd like from a #2 overall pick in that he won't be the driving force on his own line. However, I don't see any compelling evidence that he can't be a good mid-40 point winger who can make skilled players he plays with more effective. He was that for two seasons. I'm sure people here can find some examples, but it has to be exceedingly rare for a player to increase production from year 1 to year 2 (with both years being above 40 points) and then play themselves out of the league.

 

Reinhart likely won't ever be what we want and, in the context of the rebuild needed him to be, but he shouldn't be flung overboard either.

 

Also somewhat optimistic but also quite possible.