Game Discussion Thread Buffalo at Philadelphia 7pm EST MSG, GR

[dudacek]

For one thing, this season was never going to be anything other than evaluation and development. That much is obvious now. And I think the results so far are indicative that this process is working. We're 30 games in and players are being shopped, guys are getting benched. Trades are getting made. Given how little real, actual progress Bylsma made in two years, we should probably be realistic about this team being where it is. I don't think things could progress any quicker given the sorry state of the team as a whole. 

Gallant in Vegas is a completely different situation. They're an upstart team of guys who needed to come in and get things going real fast. No history to worry about. No team cultures to break.  No systems to unlearn. No "stars" beyond a couple of aging vets. Every guy there is competing for a job because only a few of them have contracts beyond next season. 

 

Botterill has said that he wants to get some competition going on this team. Too many guys with nice contracts, too many guys not feeling the heat from players in the minors. He's starting to follow through on it now because clearly it is a major problem. This team has had a miserable few years, including the tanks. There are a lot of problems to be solved that a team like Vegas simply doesn't have to deal with.

 

Insight

[pi2000]

For one thing, this season was never going to be anything other than evaluation and development. That much is obvious now. And I think the results so far are indicative that this process is working. We're 30 games in and players are being shopped, guys are getting benched. Trades are getting made. Given how little real, actual progress Bylsma made in two years, we should probably be realistic about this team being where it is. I don't think things could progress any quicker given the sorry state of the team as a whole. 

 

Gallant in Vegas is a completely different situation. They're an upstart team of guys who needed to come in and get things going real fast. No history to worry about. No team cultures to break.  No systems to unlearn. No "stars" beyond a couple of aging vets. Every guy there is competing for a job because only a few of them have contracts beyond next season. 

 

Botterill has said that he wants to get some competition going on this team. Too many guys with nice contracts, too many guys not feeling the heat from players in the minors. He's starting to follow through on it now because clearly it is a major problem. This team has had a miserable few years, including the tanks. There are a lot of problems to be solved that a team like Vegas simply doesn't have to deal with. 

 

Wrong.   The expectations were that this team was going to battle for a playoff spot.   Going in with the attitude of "evaluation and deleopment" is a loser mentality.    This is ice hockey were talking about.

 

Other than Moulson getting waived (which should've happened years ago), and the Wilson trade, what else has happened during the season?  Nothing.   

 

The Sabre's improved by 30 points in Bylsma's first year.   They took a step back his second year, but that was because of Eichel's injury.    In fact the 2016-17 team without Eichel is outpacing this current team with Eichel and an improved roster.   Sad.

 

Creating a competitive atmposphere is not something the GM should be responsible for.    The Head Coach needs to make it a competitive environment by challenging guys and handing out ice time to those who've earned it.    That's not happening on this team, and that's Housley's fault.   Just because he's new, doesn't me he can't hold guys accountable.    How many times has Eichel been benched?   Reinhart?   ROR?   none.   

 

You hear it in player interviews as well,  guys talk a lot about holding each other accountable... why?  Because it's not coming from the head coach, so they need to police themselves.   That's a losing environment, it creates a divide in the locker room... I've been there and had coaches like Housley, it's no beuno.    The best coach is a guy all the players fear, and respect, he's not their friend, he's their leader.   You want a friend? Look to the guy sitting next to you on the bench.     That atmosphere brings guys together, and it's lacking on this team.

Edited December 15, 2017 by paj två tusen

[darksabre]

Wrong.   The expectations were that this team was going to battle for a playoff spot.   Going in with the attitude of "evaluation and deleopment" is a loser mentality.    This is ice hockey were talking about.

 

Other than Moulson getting waived (which should've happened years ago), and the Wilson trade, what else has happened during the season?  Nothing.   

 

The Sabre's improved by 30 points in Bylsma's first year.   They took a step back his second year, but that was because of Eichel's injury.    In fact the 2016-17 team without Eichel is outpacing this current team with Eichel and an improved roster.   Sad.

 

Creating a competitive atmposphere is not something the GM should be responsible for.    The Head Coach needs to make it a competitive environment by challenging guys and handing out ice time to those who've earned it.    That's not happening on this team, and that's Housley's fault.   Just because he's new, doesn't me he can't hold guys accountable.    How many times has Eichel been benched?   Reinhart?   ROR?   none.   

 

You hear it in player interviews as well,  guys talk a lot about holding each other accountable... why?  Because it's not coming from the head coach, so they need to police themselves.   That's a losing environment, it creates a divide in the locker room... I've been there and had coaches like Housley, it's no beuno.    The best coach is a guy all the players fear, and respect, he's not their friend, he's their leader.   You want a friend? Look to the guy sitting next to you on the bench.     That atmosphere brings guys together, and it's lacking on this team.

The expectation was for them to be a cusp team. Cusp teams struggle and are often still developing. A cusp team with a new coach and GM is a lot of variables that can all go upside down. It's not my fault that people's expectations were too high. 

 

And again, we're 30 games in. Things are coming. 

 

As for the last bolded:  :rolleyes:  kay. Whatever you say bud. 

 

If you wanna live in a world of oversimplified takes, then have at it. 

 

[LGR4GM]

I think it is the players responsibility to hold themselves accountable. A coach can only do so much. A room full of accountable ppl are more resilient then a coach forcing accountability on them. 

 

That said, Housley needs to get pissed off a little more. Jesus hell show some freaking emotions. 

[pi2000]

The expectation was for them to be a cusp team. Cusp teams struggle and are often still developing. A cusp team with a new coach and GM is a lot of variables that can all go upside down. It's not my fault that people's expectations were too high. 

 

And again, we're 30 games in. Things are coming. 

 

As for the last bolded:  :rolleyes:  kay. Whatever you say bud. 

 

If you wanna live in a world of oversimplified takes, then have at it. 

 

 

Hockey is a simple game.    There's a simple reason this team is underperforming... but go ahead and make complicated excuses for everybody if that makes you feel better.     

[LGR4GM]

Not to interrupt but I think it is obvious why this team is nonperforming. Lack of confidence, lack of coaching, lack of leadership. 

oh and lack of talent

[pi2000]

I think it is the players responsibility to hold themselves accountable. A coach can only do so much. A room full of accountable ppl are more resilient then a coach forcing accountability on them. 

 

That said, Housley needs to get pissed off a little more. Jesus hell show some freaking emotions. 

 

Players should hold themselves accountable, but should not have to hold each other accountable.    Accountability starts with yourself, but when the coach doesn't hold the team accountable, then the accountability must come from teammates holding each other accountable.     If you're accountable for yourself, and the coach is holding the team accountable, then you'll have success.    And who's holding Housley accountable?   What is he accountable for?   When does he becoming accountable for this lack of accountability?   

[Eleven]

They all need accountabilly-buddies, pi.

[North Buffalo]

They all need accountabilly-buddies, pi.

Line for a new thread... Everbody choose a player to hold accountabilly... Evaluate and comment on that nights game... No more than three commenters for a single player.

[Iron Crotch]

We're the worst team in the East by far. And, we've score the fewest goals in the league. This roster was ###### last year and it is ###### this year. The only difference is last year we had an above average power play and this year it is lousy. We have the fewest 5-on-5 goals this year and only 11 power play goals in 32 games.

 

I don't think any coach in the league could get much out of this pile of ###### roster. I actually have more respect for Bylsma for winning a few games with these guys (mainly on the back of a strong power play). Our "scorers" don't score. The only guy producing is Kane and we're hell bent on running him out of town. I agree with pi partially in that you can overcomplicate it all you want, but the guys who are paid to generate offense need to do so. Period. And, Reinhart is one of those guys (as is Jack). Blaming linemates is a copout.

 

BTW - Reinhart has played 200 NHL games now (199). He's not a "kid" just learning the game any more.

[Thorner]

He's an RFA, so he's not going to walk away without compensation.

 

I strongly suggest we not give up on Reinhart. He's playing poorly and has regressed from the previous two years. But so has this entire team to varying degrees. He's only 22 years old and can't really maximize his potential on this current team because there are not enough good wingers on the roster for which Reinhart can center a line.

 

He may not be particularly fast or big for NHL standards, but I also wouldn't characterize him as slow or small either.

Part of the reason the team is so poor is because of the regression of a guy like Reinhart. As a #2 overall, he's one of the guys we should be counting on to elevate the play of the team. Instead he's less useful than Pouliot, a scrap heap pick up.

 

The expectations for Reinhart are too low.

 

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action.

 

Good post, but I don't think what's holding back Sam is fixable in the offseason: skating ability.

 

---

 

Mork and Paj with a great back and forth here with notable points on both sides.

[Gramps]

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

 

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action. 

 

I'd sign him with the understanding he spends next summer working out with Gary Roberts. 

 

Never mind, Cody Hodgson also worked out with Roberts. 

[Sabre1974]

Just announced here that our game against Philly next friday is being shown live on freesports. My friday night is complete.

 

new star wars film at 7.00 then home for our game starting at 12am. The joys of being a fan from europe :)

[Stoner]

Just announced here that our game against Philly next friday is being shown live on freesports. My friday night is complete.

 

new star wars film at 7.00 then home for our game starting at 12am. The joys of being a fan from europe :)

That's great. Is that pretty much your only shot of seeing a game?

[LGR4GM]

We're the worst team in the East by far. And, we've score the fewest goals in the league. This roster was ###### last year and it is ###### this year. The only difference is last year we had an above average power play and this year it is lousy. We have the fewest 5-on-5 goals this year and only 11 power play goals in 32 games.

 

I don't think any coach in the league could get much out of this pile of ###### roster. I actually have more respect for Bylsma for winning a few games with these guys (mainly on the back of a strong power play). Our "scorers" don't score. The only guy producing is Kane and we're hell bent on running him out of town. I agree with pi partially in that you can overcomplicate it all you want, but the guys who are paid to generate offense need to do so. Period. And, Reinhart is one of those guys (as is Jack). Blaming linemates is a copout.

 

BTW - Reinhart has played 200 NHL games now (199). He's not a "kid" just learning the game any more.

You what, I think I've reached this.

[Sabre1974]

That's great. Is that pretty much your only shot of seeing a game?

Seen our 3-1 loss in detroit on freesports and premier sports also show the games so i do see quite a few of them. My wife goes crazy at me when we play as the majority of our games start at 12am here and i am awake most of the night then on weekdays on a 5.45am train to work :).  An enjoyable journey if we win.

 

Saw us in New jersey in February for the first time but next on the bucket list is to do what modo has done and come to Buffalo to see us play.

[Stoner]

Seen our 3-1 loss in detroit on freesports and premier sports also show the games so i do see quite a few of them. My wife goes crazy at me when we play as the majority of our games start at 12am here and i am awake most of the night then on weekdays on a 5.45am train to work :).  An enjoyable journey if we win.

 

Saw us in New jersey in February for the first time but next on the bucket list is to do what modo has done and come to Buffalo to see us play.

So you're not a transplanted Buffalonian or even American? Sorry if I've asked this before (I feel like I have).

[Sabre1974]

Not from Buffalo or American.

 

Fully fledged brit but love hockey and American football

[Stoner]

Not from Buffalo or American.

 

Fully fledged brit but love hockey and American football

Bills too? I'm sorry. Here, take the colonies back. It's the least we can do.

[Sabre1974]

Not the bills too. Couldn't cope with that. I'm a colts fan