Game Discussion Thread Buffalo at Saint Louis, December 10, 2017, 7pm (MSG)

[Doohicksie]

Butterknife third spotting on replay of the tying goal.

 

Is this English?  Or gibberish?  I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Here in Buffalo sports land, that's called pulling a "Stephon Gilmore."

 

Getting really ###### fed up with Jack Eichel. Generational talent my ass. Definitely wasn't worth tanking for and definitely isn't worth $10 million a year.

 

Well we're not paying him anywhere near that.... yet.  :devil:

[Doohicksie]

Ah, now I see what True was saying. Guys he played a great game.

 

Now we're just looking for things to get mad at him about. Was the play his fault? Probably. But if anyone else does that the reaction isn't this strong

 

No, he's giving us things to get mad at him about.  He literally gave up on the play and allowed Teresenko to go in alone on Lehner.  Robin deserved a better fate.

[WildCard]

No, he's giving us things to get mad at him about.  He literally gave up on the play and allowed Teresenko to go in alone on Lehner.  Robin deserved a better fate.

Kane did. And that's not the only shot Lehner faced all night. How about losing your mind over the other 50 shots

[Thorner]

Looks like it's on Kane. Just move over, Eichel already has the inside

Eh, that "inside" that Eichel has nearly covered at the time of the snapshot is very quickly going to not be Tarasenko's inside path anymore as he blows by Jack. I still bet Vlad cuts to the middle if Kane cuts off the boards and Jack continues to coast there.

[WildCard]

Eh, that "inside" that Eichel has nearly covered at the time of the snapshot is very quickly going to not be Tarasenko's inside path anymore as he blows by Jack. I still bet Vlad cuts to the middle if Kane cuts off the boards and Jack continues to coast there.

Then Risto comes over. 

 

We can argue hypothetical all day, but I don't see how, in that picture, Kane isn't supposed to move up and forward to cut off Taresanko 

[dudacek]

Can't both statements be true? 

 

More broadly:  can't it be true that Lehner has the size and athleticism to be a very good goalie -- which is probably what GMTM saw in him -- while lacking the mental toughness to use correct technique 100% of the time and to close games out -- and thus he's mediocre when all is said and done?

I think both statements are true. I asked which is more true?

I agree with Thorny, the only reason Lehner was in a position to blow the second point in Chicago and St. Louis was because he had singelhandedly earned the the first.

 

I think the answer to your question is yes.

I was hoping you would answer each of mine.

[Doohicksie]

I've been pretty vocal about my expectations for him and in the last 3 games he's looked great. It was one play

 

Edit: He also is, by far, the best player on this team. For all the crap he's been getting why are we not trashing Okposo, O'Reilly, Scandella, etc.

Props to you for calling it too. I'll eat crow on that one, I liked Murray

 

It was one play... a play that cost the Sabres the game. 

 

Those "mistakes" you'd expect from ROR (not as fleet of foot), Girgs (not as skilled), etc., but Eichel had both the skill and speed to prevent that play.  If it were anyone else I'd feel bad for him, but for Eichel it was a case of a serious lapse in his hockey IQ.

[WildCard]

It was one play... a play that cost the Sabres the game. 

 

Those "mistakes" you'd expect from ROR (not as fleet of foot), Girgs (not as skilled), etc., but Eichel had both the skill and speed to prevent that play.  If it were anyone else I'd feel bad for him, but for Eichel it was a case of a serious lapse in his hockey IQ.

Kane was right there.

[Stoner]

Is this English?  Or gibberish?  I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Some hyphens could have helped. I spotted a butterknife third (jersey) (in the crowd) on the replay of the tying goal.

[woods-racer]

Positives:

There was a physical edge to the Sabres game that we don’t see nearly enough of.

A clutch third period, coming from behind on the road, down two.

The Blues are a tough, smart, very good hockey team.

I’m with Swamp; after the first 10 minutes, the Sabres played hard; I was entertained.

 

The stretch of best hockey came in the third, when by accident or design we mainly had these lines rolling

Pouliot Eichel Pominville

Kane Rodrigues Reinhart

Girgensons O’Reilly Okposo

 

Going off of memory so please correct me if I'm wrong but...

 

Wasn't Girgensons supplanted by Wilson as the game wore on? Wilson ended with more TOI and I swear Wilson was making some nice plays to finish off the third period. I saw Gergensons as JAG for most of the game.

[pi2000]

It was one play... a play that cost the Sabres the game. 

 

Those "mistakes" you'd expect from ROR (not as fleet of foot), Girgs (not as skilled), etc., but Eichel had both the skill and speed to prevent that play.  If it were anyone else I'd feel bad for him, but for Eichel it was a case of a serious lapse in his hockey IQ.

 

Spot on.    That's a young player mistake.    He'll learn from it...   assuming he puts the effort in to correct these things... who knows.

 

Housley keeps referring to "preparation"... this is what he's talking about.... players taking that extra time to watch video, correct mistakes, pre-scouting, etc..  For example, in the Chicago post-game interview Eichel made it sound like he didn't know where to go with his penalty shot and was trying to get ideas from guys on the bench.    That's poor preparation on his part.    There is plenty of video available on Crawford, there is no excuse for not knowing where to attack him or any other goalie in the league.   

[Thorner]

Spot on.    That's a young player mistake.    He'll learn from it...   assuming he puts the effort in to correct these things... who knows.

 

Housley keeps referring to "preparation"... this is what he's talking about.... players taking that extra time to watch video, correct mistakes, pre-scouting, etc..  For example, in the Chicago post-game interview Eichel made it sound like he didn't know where to go with his penalty shot and was trying to get ideas from guys on the bench.    That's poor preparation on his part.    There is plenty of video available on Crawford, there is no excuse for not knowing where to attack him or any other goalie in the league.

 

Yup. That penalty shot interview was so telling. Eichel is just a kid, isn't he.

 

That's a positive, for me, though. Kids grow up.

[dudacek]

Going off of memory so please correct me if I'm wrong but...

 

Wasn't Girgensons supplanted by Wilson as the game wore on? Wilson ended with more TOI and I swear Wilson was making some nice plays to finish off the third period. I saw Gergensons as JAG for most of the game.

Wilson started with ERod and Reinhart but played with Larsson and Fasching in the stretch in the third where the Sabres played their best hockey. It wasn’t that long and that fourth line may have only got two shifts of the 15 or so shifts I was referring to.

[Doohicksie]

The Lehner/Eichel play aside, that was a really good hockey game. I was shocked that we even got a point against the Blues, and if that's the hockey I get to watch the rest of the year, I will be happy.

 

I still need Jack to shoot more, especially when he is right at the circle and chooses to pass instead.

 

This is what I was hoping for from the start of the season.  The infusion of ERod and Fasching (especially ERod) seems to be making a big difference.  The team looks more competitive.  I like to imagine with a hefty turnover next season we'll see even more improvement.

 

I've been harsh on Jack regarding the winning goal, but I think the secret to winning isn't with Jack picking up his play; the secret is in the team being good enough that we don't need Jack at his best every night to be able to win.

 

I will say that I didn't expect very much out of ERod and I'm happy to say he's proving me wrong.  I figured what we saw last year was it, but he's better than that in the few games I've seen him this year.

The stretch of best hockey came in the third, when by accident or design we mainly had these lines rolling

Pouliot Eichel Pominville

Kane Rodrigues Reinhart

Girgensons O’Reilly Okposo

 

I found it very difficult to track the lines in the third, they seemed all over the place.  Rodrigues as 3C is a boost to this team.

But the first event preceded the second. Lehner created a situation we otherwise shouldn't have been in, so at that point any points gained were "found money". I'm not going to blame him for costing us a point when he's the only reason we got one, and had a chance for 2, in the first place. Lehner can't carry the team indefinitely, someone on the team has to find a way to score a GWG at some point, in the ample time Lehner is providing (and more time than the skaters have been deserving based on how badly outshot they've been).

 

Just my view though.

 

Also, no goalie uses the correct technique 100% of the time. Someone already said it best: most goalies are like Lehner. We can try for that upper echelon guy we've been spoiled by in the past, the Ryan Millers of the world. I'm all for it, but it's tough to find those guys. If we are going to be getting the quantity of saves we've been getting from Lehner in the last few games going forward, it's not a bad Plan B.

 

Hasek rarely used what was then considered correct technique, and yet it worked.  That's what made him the Dominator.

[pi2000]

Yup. That penalty shot interview was so telling. Eichel is just a kid, isn't he.

 

That's a positive, for me, though. Kids grow up.

 

Eichel is severely immature... much more so than you'd expect from an average 21 year old.    His body language, post game interviews, etc...  is what you would expect from a 15-16 year old.    He has a lot of growing up to do.      

[bcsaberks]

Sabres have 5 OT losses this season

10/17 - Vegas - 55, 90, 15 (15 loses stick, goes to retrieve, too slow)

11/11 - Montreal - 67,82,90 (oreilly poulliet mess, pacioretty scores)

11/14 - Pens - 15 watches 87 beat 9 and come to front of net to score (also 82 out)

12/8 - Chi - 21,55,15

12/9 - As discussed above

 

Of course we want him out there as much as possible in 3v3 as the most talented guy so there's bias but...

 

Our only OT win is vs Boston, 90 scored unassisted (90 at his best, not seen enough this year) but 55 did a bunch of work and 9 was on ice too.

 

Also a shoot out loss in opener vs Montreal 10/5.

So that's 7 OT games this year.  1-5-1, Eichel -4.  

[erickompositör72]

No, he's giving us things to get mad at him about.  He literally gave up on the play and allowed Teresenko to go in alone on Lehner.  Robin deserved a better fate.

 

In a video game, Eichel can check Tarasenko and take him out of the play.

 

In real-life NHL, that's Kane's job to use his angle to force him outside, and let the other players cover the middle of the ice

 

 

Honestly, I worry Housely isn't focusing enough on these fundamentals. Maybe the anti-McDermott?

Edited December 11, 2017 by erickompositör72

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, the Sabres showed a lot of spunk coming back to tie it and get the point.

 

Two OT losses against far better teams in their rinks tells me the guys are coming around.  The effort is there (mostly), which highlights the lack of talent even more.

 

GO SABRES!!

[Weave]

Eichel is severely immature... much more so than you'd expect from an average 21 year old. His body language, post game interviews, etc... is what you would expect from a 15-16 year old. He has a lot of growing up to do.

This is my read as well.

Edited December 11, 2017 by We've

[MattPie]

I am missing this whole thing because of Windows update

 

But you can use 3D objects in PowerPoint now!

[LTS]

Kane should have moved over

 

So.. I've watched the video a few times.

 

Yes, I think I agree that Kane should move over to take away the direct path to the goaltender.  Eichel is clearly playing to take away the cutback and the pass back,.

 

At the start of the breakout the Eichel plays the pass from Tarasenko to Stastny.  Eichel knows he has two behind him in coverage.  This should immediately mean that the first two guys up the ice are picked up by Kane and Risto.

 

Kane is angling towards Stastny on the wall and Eichel is correctly between Tarasenko and Stastny.  As Stastny crosses the ice and Tarasenko transitions up the wall Jack stays in perfect position to keep the pass to Stastny from being made.  Kane has to know that Ristolainen will have Stastny now that he's moving to his side of the ice.  Kane's ONLY focus at that point has to be picking up Tarasenko as he moves around Eichel.

 

As Eichel moves past Stastny he moves his stick even more behind him to prevent the cross ice pass to Stastny.  This is a CLEAR indication he does NOT have Tarasenko (nor should he).  As Tarasenko moves past Eichel, Eichel keeps his stick back.  If he's taking Tarasenko then he'd move his stick up into a poke check position.

 

As they cross the red-line Kane, inexplicably moves toward the center of the ice.  That's the green light at that point for Tarasenko and now Jack knows that Tarasenko has a path into the zone (even though he shouldn't).

 

The only thing that comes into play, and we can't hear it, is any communication from Kane to Eichel.

 

Oh well, a great player forced a defensive coverage screw up.  

[Doohicksie]

So.. I've watched the video a few times.

 

Yes, I think I agree that Kane should move over to take away the direct path to the goaltender.  Eichel is clearly playing to take away the cutback and the pass back,.

 

At the start of the breakout the Eichel plays the pass from Tarasenko to Stastny.  Eichel knows he has two behind him in coverage.  This should immediately mean that the first two guys up the ice are picked up by Kane and Risto.

 

Kane is angling towards Stastny on the wall and Eichel is correctly between Tarasenko and Stastny.  As Stastny crosses the ice and Tarasenko transitions up the wall Jack stays in perfect position to keep the pass to Stastny from being made.  Kane has to know that Ristolainen will have Stastny now that he's moving to his side of the ice.  Kane's ONLY focus at that point has to be picking up Tarasenko as he moves around Eichel.

 

As Eichel moves past Stastny he moves his stick even more behind him to prevent the cross ice pass to Stastny.  This is a CLEAR indication he does NOT have Tarasenko (nor should he).  As Tarasenko moves past Eichel, Eichel keeps his stick back.  If he's taking Tarasenko then he'd move his stick up into a poke check position.

 

As they cross the red-line Kane, inexplicably moves toward the center of the ice.  That's the green light at that point for Tarasenko and now Jack knows that Tarasenko has a path into the zone (even though he shouldn't).

 

The only thing that comes into play, and we can't hear it, is any communication from Kane to Eichel.

 

Oh well, a great player forced a defensive coverage screw up.  

 

That's a very charitable take on the whole thing.  I'm willing to keep that as my last impression of this game.

[nfreeman]

I think both statements are true. I asked which is more true?

I agree with Thorny, the only reason Lehner was in a position to blow the second point in Chicago and St. Louis was because he had singelhandedly earned the the first.

 

I think the answer to your question is yes.

I was hoping you would answer each of mine.

 

This is fair.  I admit that I cannot answer your questions as I missed good chunks of each of the games.

[Sabel79]

Eichel is severely immature... much more so than you'd expect from an average 21 year old.    His body language, post game interviews, etc...  is what you would expect from a 15-16 year old.    He has a lot of growing up to do.

 

Maybe he'd have been better off playing in a pro league in European instead of his cosseted stint in college... might have toughened him up...

[Doohicksie]

Maybe he'd have been better off playing in a pro league in European instead of his cosseted stint in college... might have toughened him up...

 

cosset  [kos-it] verb (used with object)  1. to treat as a pet; pamper; coddle.

 

Welp, I learned a new word today.