Game Discussion Thread Buffalo at Saint Louis, December 10, 2017, 7pm (MSG)

[nfreeman]

Lehner's flailing at the pokecheck was poor and desparate piece of goaltending IMHO.

 

To be clear, I'm not blaming him for the loss -- just noting that it was yet another late-game choke.

[dudacek]

Haven’t read the thread yet.

Are we talking about Lehner failing to close things out again, or lazy Jack?

[WildCard]

Haven’t read the thread yet.

Are we talking about Lehner failing to close things out again, or lazy Jack?

Lazy Jack

[dudacek]

Freeman, true or false: Robin Lehner has been the best Sabre these past three games.

 

The team took four out of a possible 6 points in a three-game six-night western road swing where they were outshot an average of 45 to 29. Over those three games Lehner allowed two 5-on-5 goals.

 

Overall, how would you generally describe his play over this stretch?

 

What do you think is a more accurate statement?

Lehner’s inability to stop the two shots in overtime cost the Sabres two points this trip.

Lehner’s play in regulation earned the Sabres two points this trip.

[JohnRobertEichel]

Freeman, true or false: Robin Lehner has been the best Sabre these past three games.

 

The team took four out of a possible 6 points in a three-game six-night western road swing where they were outshot an average of 45 to 29. Over those three games Lehner allowed two 5-on-5 goals.

 

Overall, how would you generally describe his play over this stretch?

 

What do you think is a more accurate statement?

Lehner’s inability to stop the two shots in overtime cost the Sabres two points this trip.

Lehner’s play in regulation earned the Sabres two points this trip.

 

Wow, that's a tough one. We might need the Age of Enlightenment philosophers to unpack this duality. How about this statement: Lehner is a piece of choke artist who has no business being a Buffalo Sabre beyond this season, but he has been playing well enough in regulation lately to convince a desperate, gullible playoff team to cough up a late 2nd rounder in February?

 

I'm sure we can find a large temperamental Swede to play goalie next season for much less than $4+ million per year. Linus?

 

Apologies for the caustic tone. This team just brings out the worst in me.

[SwampD]

The Lehner/Eichel play aside, that was a really good hockey game. I was shocked that we even got a point against the Blues, and if that's the hockey I get to watch the rest of the year, I will be happy.

 

I still need Jack to shoot more, especially when he is right at the circle and chooses to pass instead.

[erickompositör72]

Kane was in the "D" position. Normally the forward gives the player over to the defenseman who would force him wide, and the forward picks up the trailer coming down the slot. Just as Eichel gave him over to Kane, Kane moved to play the slot, and Eichel couldn't catch him. The error was Kane's for not playing like a defenseman.

 

This actually outlines the best way to defend Tarasenko going through the neutral zone, because...

 

The error was not Kane's. All Jack has to do is try to put a body on Tarasenko. He blew it.

 

...Jack didn't have the best angle. Kane did.

 

Lehner's flailing at the pokecheck was poor and desparate piece of goaltending IMHO.

 

To be clear, I'm not blaming him for the loss -- just noting that it was yet another late-game choke.

 

It was like an "all-in" call. He made a desperation play, rather than staying calm and collected. If he wants to poke check a guy cutting across the crease, he should watch videos of how Dom did it

[LikeEich]

Jack letting Tarasenko walk by without even trying to slow him up in the least is everything that's wrong with this team in a nutshell. Go hard till the green light goes off. That simple.

[Neo]

Easy enough. Wish we’d try physically sometimes

I believe he hates to lose. I have hope he’ll discover that’s not differentiating.

[Huckleberry]

Freeman, true or false: Robin Lehner has been the best Sabre these past three games.

 

The team took four out of a possible 6 points in a three-game six-night western road swing where they were outshot an average of 45 to 29. Over those three games Lehner allowed two 5-on-5 goals.

 

Overall, how would you generally describe his play over this stretch?

 

What do you think is a more accurate statement?

Lehner’s inability to stop the two shots in overtime cost the Sabres two points this trip.

Lehner’s play in regulation earned the Sabres two points this trip.

 

I'd say Lehner got us two points 

[Neo]

The error was not Kane's. All Jack has to do is try to put a body on Tarasenko. He blew it.

I like Pasta’s analysis AND mörk’s. I think an “either/or” would’ve worked better than the “neither”, my astute grasp of the obvious acknowledged.

[Marvelo]

OT in the NHL: Three on three pond hockey. With a power play, it becomes 4 on 3. Makes sense, right? Changes almost every year. Then there's the skills competition in the end.

 

Moral of this story: you never trust a FW playing D against another FW, especially in pond hockey. This time, Jack took the bait. 

 

I didn't see this game but I saw the last two. There has been improvement with the Sabres compete level and that's good...Maybe we will beat out Arizona after all.

 

Striving for mediocrity.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Marvelo

[inkman]

compete level

Teds?

[dudacek]

Positives:

There was a physical edge to the Sabres game that we don’t see nearly enough of.

A clutch third period, coming from behind on the road, down two.

The Blues are a tough, smart, very good hockey team.

I’m with Swamp; after the first 10 minutes, the Sabres played hard; I was entertained.

 

The stretch of best hockey came in the third, when by accident or design we mainly had these lines rolling

Pouliot Eichel Pominville

Kane Rodrigues Reinhart

Girgensons O’Reilly Okposo

[SwampD]

Three game point streak!!!!

[Stoner]

It's incredible that the Sabres ended up with a power play after Falk mugged that Blue. How was that not instigating? (I still hate a guy coming to a teammate's "defense" after a clean hit, so maybe that Blue learned his lesson.)

[dudacek]

The Blue (Schenn) was definitely the instigator and the hit was clean.

But how Falk got two minutes for throwing three haymakers and Schenn four for catching them was pretty hard to understand.

And how about the phantom two when Jack tripped over the goal line?

[LTS]

An interesting thread to read.. thankfully it appears everyone was either busy or didn't care enough to post so it was a short thread.  

 

The Sabres still have a long way to go and Lehner kept them in the game.  They had their moments but they are still very much like last year's team in their own zone.  It's ugly.  There is some light that they are trying to some different things but they still get stuck in their end far too often.

 

As for the OT goal.  My only comment at the time was that Eichel got Eichel'd.  He's done that to other teams (he did it to Nashville last year).  It's not like this was Sobotka with the puck.  It was Tarasenko.  Let's give some credit to the opposing player here. If Eichel goes hard at Tarasenko then it's entirely feasible that he ends up whiffing on him as Tarasenko makes a hard cut back to the center of the ice.  One only has to look Tarasenko's break in the 3rd period where he was about to go by the net and then stopped on a dime and almost put it past Lehner.  The dude is pretty shifty.

 

In open ice, on a rush, 1 on 1, the offensive talented player should win.  Eichel has done it before and in this case it was Tarasenko doing it to Buffalo.

 

I think Eichel has to make a bit of a better play on that but he really is in no man's land against one of the best skaters in the league.  From what I was able to watch of the game I saw a lot of effort out of Eichel.  He's not there but he's shown an improvement over the past few games (since Moulson was sent packing and Rodrigues came back). 

 

One has to hope it leads to better things.  There are still trades coming, that much is certain.

[Thorner]

Our Sabres turtle took another tiny step on it's slow journey back to respectability. One step at a time.

[Stoner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsnESYMT6qM

The Blue (Schenn) was definitely the instigator and the hit was clean.
But how Falk got two minutes for throwing three haymakers and Schenn four for catching them was pretty hard to understand.
And how about the phantom two when Jack tripped over the goal line?

Just by skating over that was instiga-she-own?

[nfreeman]

What do you think is a more accurate statement?

Lehner’s inability to stop the two shots in overtime cost the Sabres two points this trip.

Lehner’s play in regulation earned the Sabres two points this trip.

 

Can't both statements be true? 

 

More broadly:  can't it be true that Lehner has the size and athleticism to be a very good goalie -- which is probably what GMTM saw in him -- while lacking the mental toughness to use correct technique 100% of the time and to close games out -- and thus he's mediocre when all is said and done?

[Thorner]

Can't both statements be true?

 

More broadly: can't it be true that Lehner has the size and athleticism to be a very good goalie -- which is probably what GMTM saw in him -- while lacking the mental toughness to use correct technique 100% of the time and to close games out -- and thus he's mediocre when all is said and done?

But the first event preceded the second. Lehner created a situation we otherwise shouldn't have been in, so at that point any points gained were "found money". I'm not going to blame him for costing us a point when he's the only reason we got one, and had a chance for 2, in the first place. Lehner can't carry the team indefinitely, someone on the team has to find a way to score a GWG at some point, in the ample time Lehner is providing (and more time than the skaters have been deserving based on how badly outshot they've been).

 

Just my view though.

 

Also, no goalie uses the correct technique 100% of the time. Someone already said it best: most goalies are like Lehner. We can try for that upper echelon guy we've been spoiled by in the past, the Ryan Millers of the world. I'm all for it, but it's tough to find those guys. If we are going to be getting the quantity of saves we've been getting from Lehner in the last few games going forward, it's not a bad Plan B.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[WildCard]

Kane should have moved over

[Thorner]

^ if they aren't just playing man to man (so it's not just Eichel's man), they *both* should have moved in aggressively to cut him off. If Kane moves over quick, a guy with Tarasenko's speed and skill is going to go between the two, if Jack isn't closing quick.

 

It's on both of them.

[WildCard]

^ if they aren't just playing man to man (so it's not just Eichel's man), they *both* should have moved in aggressively to cut him off. If Kane moves over quick, a guy with Tarasenko's speed and skill is going to go between the two, if Jack isn't closing quick.

 

It's on both of them.

Looks like it's on Kane. Just move over, Eichel already has the inside