Lindy too Ruff on Vanek?

[topshelfcookies]

After reading the feature today in the News on Afinogenov, it made me think about Max's rookie season.

 

I seem to remember that Max seemed to be entrenched in Lindy's doghouse those first few years, and it was not uncommon for him to be a healthy scratch, then play a good couple games, then get tossed back to the press box a week later.

 

Of course, I could be just making this up...I figured people on this board would remember more astutely.

 

The only reason I bring it up is this...

 

I'll readily admit that I'm a huge admirer of Ruff, and can think of few coaches in the league that are more adept at developing players, developing assistant coaches, developing solid special teams and generally being as successful with the psychological elemnts of the game on and off the ice, as well as being a solid coach in terms of creating a style of hockey that works for his team. It's been stated before that this team is built differently than the teams from the late 90's, yet Lindy once again has his club in a position to seriously contend for the cup.

 

While Vanek has been in and out of the doghouse this season, and seems to rival only Pyatt among the forwards in terms of being a healthy scratch due to performance (Peters isn't generally scratched due to a lack of effort...just a lack of skill), I feel like I trust Lindy with finding a way to get the most out of Vanek.

 

Didn't it work the same way with Max 5, 6 years ago? We all know where Max is at now.

 

Like I said...I very well could be wrong about this...what are your thoughts?

[BuffalOhio]

After reading the feature today in the News on Afinogenov, it made me think about Max's rookie season.

 

I seem to remember that Max seemed to be entrenched in Lindy's doghouse those first few years, and it was not uncommon for him to be a healthy scratch, then play a good couple games, then get tossed back to the press box a week later.

 

Of course, I could be just making this up...I figured people on this board would remember more astutely.

 

The only reason I bring it up is this...

 

I'll readily admit that I'm a huge admirer of Ruff, and can think of few coaches in the league that are more adept at developing players, developing assistant coaches, developing solid special teams and generally being as successful with the psychological elemnts of the game on and off the ice, as well as being a solid coach in terms of creating a style of hockey that works for his team. It's been stated before that this team is built differently than the teams from the late 90's, yet Lindy once again has his club in a position to seriously contend for the cup.

 

While Vanek has been in and out of the doghouse this season, and seems to rival only Pyatt among the forwards in terms of being a healthy scratch due to performance (Peters isn't generally scratched due to a lack of effort...just a lack of skill), I feel like I trust Lindy with finding a way to get the most out of Vanek.

 

Didn't it work the same way with Max 5, 6 years ago? We all know where Max is at now.

 

Like I said...I very well could be wrong about this...what are your thoughts?

 

I think that's about right. What we need to remember is that Vanek is a very gifted player, who probably has been the best player on the ice for his entire career. Things are different now, and it takes a greater amount of effort to be as succesful. That's what Lindy is trying to get out of Thomas, I'm sure. He still floats a lot, and needs to work on that.

 

Nobody has mentioned it, so I will: Max did a great job backchecking on Alfredsson's goal, but he had absolutely no clue whom to cover, or where to go. He came flying back into the play, but didn't really do anything except screw up his defensemen. A few years ago, you wouldn't see him even try to get back into the play, so there has been growth there; he just needs to learn which guy to cover and why.

 

Vanek needs to learn this same effort that Max has finally learned.

[Rock DJ]

Very early in the game Vanek actually came back on a backcheck and broke up a pass in his zone. When I saw it I immediately thought, Hey, it WORKED. WOOHOO. Lindy got through to him.

I even looked at the play again to make sure I saw what I thought I saw.

 

The next time on the ice, he let someone go right by him. I shook my head, said nevermind. Sure enough, he ended up short shifted later in the game.

 

His attitude is that he hasn't really done anything wrong, pretty much the same as Max was. "It's not ME, it's the rest of the team"

 

Until he learns to recognize and accept his faults, they will just continue.

Some learn from watching others, some have to learn the hard way.

[Corp000085]

vanek will be fine. as topshelf mentioned, lindy ruff is one of the most skilled coaches in developing young, raw talent. Vanek might never hit 50 goals, or he may do it next season, but he'll learn his role soon. I just hope he contributes this playoff season.

[Goodfella25]

I know he is only a rookie, but I don't think Vanek will ever be able to develop a much better all-around game. He is eerily similar to Satan...a gifted scored who can't backcheck/play defensive hockey and FLOATS ALL THE TIME. As I think back to the weeks leading into the 2004 draft, the big knock I always heard/read about Vanek was that he isn't a high motor guy....in other words he has a tendency to take nights/shifts off. That's a hard habit to kick when its been going on since even before he was drafted.

[Taro T]

I know he is only a rookie, but I don't think Vanek will ever be able to develop a much better all-around game. He is eerily similar to Satan...a gifted scored who can't backcheck/play defensive hockey and FLOATS ALL THE TIME. As I think back to the weeks leading into the 2004 draft, the big knock I always heard/read about Vanek was that he isn't a high motor guy....in other words he has a tendency to take nights/shifts off. That's a hard habit to kick when its been going on since even before he was drafted.

And the reason he was a top 5 pick was because he scores big goals in big games. That is a harder habit to get into than getting out of floating through the less important ones.

 

You can teach a guy to work hard but you can't teach hands, Afinogenov this year is the poster child for that one.

 

Vanek has always been at the top of whatever level he has played. The fact he started slowly in Rochester, but still scored 40+, and that he started slowly in Buffalo but will end up with close to 30 show that he can acclimatize to his surroundings. Considering there aren't any true floaters on this team, unlike previous seasons, he doesn't have a mentor to teach him bad habits. I expect that he will get the hang of backchecking in a season or 2. (Not as quickly as I would like him to, but they call the guys rookies for a reason.)

 

By the way, Miro COULD backcheck, he just wouldn't typically.

[Goodfella25]

And the reason he was a top 5 pick was because he scores big goals in big games. That is a harder habit to get into than getting out of floating through the less important ones.

 

You can teach a guy to work hard but you can't teach hands, Afinogenov this year is the poster child for that one.

 

Vanek has always been at the top of whatever level he has played. The fact he started slowly in Rochester, but still scored 40+, and that he started slowly in Buffalo but will end up with close to 30 show that he can acclimatize to his surroundings. Considering there aren't any true floaters on this team, unlike previous seasons, he doesn't have a mentor to teach him bad habits. I expect that he will get the hang of backchecking in a season or 2. (Not as quickly as I would like him to, but they call the guys rookies for a reason.)

 

By the way, Miro COULD backcheck, he just wouldn't typically.

 

 

Oh I know, never did I challenge the fact that he has a knack for scoring goals. You don't get drafted 5th overall for nothing. But I am saying that he is a true floater who doesn't skate hard when he needs to, and I don't think that's gonna change because it's the same as Satan...people tend to let it slide because he is a gifted goal-scorer.

[Taro T]

Oh I know, never did I challenge the fact that he has a knack for scoring goals. You don't get drafted 5th overall for nothing. But I am saying that he is a true floater who doesn't skate hard when he needs to, and I don't think that's gonna change because it's the same as Satan...people tend to let it slide because he is a gifted goal-scorer.

"People" may let it slide, but his coach doesn't seem to be doing that. I still believe you can teach a gifted player to play a complete game. You can't teach a Snuggerud how to score.

[X. Benedict]

He is eerily similar to Satan...a gifted scored who can't backcheck/play defensive hockey and FLOATS ALL THE TIME.

 

I don't think that is quite the case, although I agree about the backcheck. I see a young guy who loves playing in front of the net, and feels that his creativity is being teathered in a team system. There have been games he has been the best guy on the ice, willing to work hard down low and in the corners on the forecheck.

 

It just seems he is so often out of position, especially on the backcheck and getting caught in the offensive zone . He needs to toughen up mentally and play within himself more. ( I guess he could take a lesson from Gaustad.) He doesn't need to try to be the star every night.

 

He still reminds me of someone sometimes. Maybe a young Pat Verbeek.

[blugold43]

i have been frustrated with the guy too, but i think it is foolish to draw conclusions about how the guy will play the rest of his career based on his rookie season. and yes i know what you mean when you say he "floats."