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"What's wrong with Dad?" Thoughts on the core problem with the Buffalo NHL franchise

Stoner

By Stoner
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Stoner Hall of Famer

Stoner

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Schopp and the Bulldog had a moment of lucidity the other day. They have been loathe to talk about the Sabres since the Bills got hot. But I caught the tail end of a discussion about Vesey and the Sabres. Mike was saying he guessed the Sabres thought they'd get him because of his connection with Eichel and the "cachet" of the franchise under Pegula. Who wouldn't want to be a part of it? HarborCenter yada yada  yada.

 

He recounted a story I hadn't heard about Drury talking to Vesey about what it's like to play in Buffalo and how you're a big fish in a little pond and under the microscope, and in Manhattan you can fly under the radar (that cliche of the day desk calendar is coming in handy). (Drury IIRC once talked about being stalked in Wegmans or something.)

 

Schopp then got to the heart of the matter, that there's a reckoning that has to take place about what is truly wrong with this franchise. He likened it to siblings sitting around talking about what's wrong with their father. "What's wrong with Dad?" Schopp said second, third and fourth opinions might be needed, given the maddening complexity of the situation.

 

So... what is wrong with this franchise? What's REALLY wrong? We all have our first opinion. But when you drill down (sorry), what else could it be?

 

I've been ruminating on it, and after I come back to the inevitable issue of poor ownership since the Knoxes, I do get to something else, but I'll save that for later.

Edited by PASabreFan
That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

Posted
Posted

The heart of the problem is that the franchise has not had a talented FO team leading its hockey operations for an extended period of time (say, like, 5 years minimum).

 

That's it. I know that's not as metaphysical as some would like, but that's really it.

 

Unless and until that comes to pass, the team is apt to stink (even while stumbling into a playoff spot here or there).

 

It's incumbent on the Pegulas to put that team in place (and maybe they only need to make 1 key hire to make it happen (and maybe Botterill is that 1 key hire)) and then largely* get the eff out of the way. 

 

* Yes, some level of meddling is to be expected. But I really do think the Bills absord most of that energy nowadays.

mjd1001 Second Liner

mjd1001

Posted
Posted (edited)

1.  Pegula made a bad choice in Bringing on LaFontaine, whos decision it was to hire Murray.  Murray is/was a few years behind the times in terms of building a team with speed, instead he focused on size.

 

2.  You 'lost' the lottery 2 years when you had the best odds to win it.

 

3.  You haven't drafted a legit all-star type player in the past 10-15 years (Eichel eventually, MAYBE Risto but I'm having doubts there)

 

4. Speaking of the Draft, in the past 12 years, You have 30 1st or 2nd round picks. How many have turned into legit top pair D-men or Top 6 forwards.  Maybe 2?

 

5.  You overpaid for O'Rielly and Okposo.  Both are slow. They would have been very good/great in the NHL of 2 or 3 years ago, but with the speed of todays game, they are not good legit top line guys...yet you are paying them like top line guys for the next 5 years.

 

6. Developing talent...and this ties into the draft also. Who on this team was brought up through the Sabres system (and there should be a LOT considering the number of 1st and 2nd round picks they have had):Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Girgensons....are the only guys I know of that get significant ice time.

 

The best thing the Sabres can do is fire the entire scouting department.....and go out and find who is the best scout in the league (maybe the best 3-4) and pay them as much as you need to join the Sabres.

Edited by mjd1001
That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

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Posted

Murray is/was a few years behind the times in terms of building a team with speed, instead he focused on size.

 

You haven't drafted a legit all-star type player in the past 10-15 years (Eichel eventually, MAYBE Risto but I'm having doubts there)

 

Speaking of the Draft, in the past 12 years, You have 30 1st or 2nd round picks. How many have turned into legit top pair D-men or Top 6 forwards.  Maybe 2?

 

You overpaid for O'Rielly and Okposo.  Both are slow. They would have been very good/great in the NHL of 2 or 3 years ago, but with the speed of todays game, they are not good legit top line guys...yet you are paying them like top line guys for the next 5 years..

 

This was a really good post - especially the items above.

 

I got nervous when I kept reading the Tweets and articles about how errrwun (outside of Buffalo) was reportedly cutting weight before camp in an effort to be quicker and faster. We're still trying to emerge from the heavy (footed) model, I think.

bob_sauve28 All Star

bob_sauve28

Posted
Posted

How many teams are there in the league? Folks, all the teams can't win. There has to be losers. We are losers right now. There are many, many factors that go into this. It stinks, but some day, through luck and skill they will be good for a short amount of time. 

That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

Posted
Posted

We get it. The OP hates the Pegulas. Nothing to see here. 

 

Enough of that. For present purposes, anyway.

 

It's all because of Darcy. Drafting badly for a decade ruined everything because no one had to earn their way on to this team. There's no internal competition in the org.

 

I know he did a lot of poor drafting. But he also hit on a guy like Pominville in round 2 or 3, which is exactly what a team needs to push over the top. And don't forget the Miller lottery ticket.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted

It's all because of Darcy. Drafting badly for a decade ruined everything because no one had to earn their way on to this team. There's no internal competition in the org.

Ding. Winner winner. Hard to take nights off when there's 3 guys younger then you in Rochester just begging for a chance. Starting with the 2016 draft we need to hit. 2017 was okay but again we need 2 players per draft and 3 players every 3rd draft to be NHL guys.
woods-racer First Liner

woods-racer

Posted
Posted

Ding. Winner winner. Hard to take nights off when there's 3 guys younger then you in Rochester just begging for a chance. Starting with the 2016 draft we need to hit. 2017 was okay but again we need 2 players per draft and 3 players every 3rd draft to be NHL guys.

 

I'm thinking this is what Kane is going to be, more swings and misses in Rochester. Trading Kane will be giving Botterrill more chances of getting legitimate players in Rochester with a lot of competition just for ice time.

 

The down side is it takes several years to pan out to a good NHL team.

Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted

No way Schopp and the Bulldog don't read this board. This is basically their topic for todays show.

 

They would be stupid not to!  This board shows what the most serious fans want to hear about.

Doohicksie Hall of Famer

Doohicksie

Posted
Posted (edited)

1.  Pegula made a bad choice in Bringing on LaFontaine, whos decision it was to hire Murray.  Murray is/was a few years behind the times in terms of building a team with speed, instead he focused on size.

 

2.  You 'lost' the lottery 2 years when you had the best odds to win it.

 

3.  You haven't drafted a legit all-star type player in the past 10-15 years (Eichel eventually, MAYBE Risto but I'm having doubts there)

 

4. Speaking of the Draft, in the past 12 years, You have 30 1st or 2nd round picks. How many have turned into legit top pair D-men or Top 6 forwards.  Maybe 2?

 

5.  You overpaid for O'Rielly and Okposo.  Both are slow. They would have been very good/great in the NHL of 2 or 3 years ago, but with the speed of todays game, they are not good legit top line guys...yet you are paying them like top line guys for the next 5 years.

 

6. Developing talent...and this ties into the draft also. Who on this team was brought up through the Sabres system (and there should be a LOT considering the number of 1st and 2nd round picks they have had):Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Girgensons....are the only guys I know of that get significant ice time.

 

The best thing the Sabres can do is fire the entire scouting department.....and go out and find who is the best scout in the league (maybe the best 3-4) and pay them as much as you need to join the Sabres.

 

I agree with much of what you say.  I'm not sure how much is on the scouting department versus the vision set by the GM (i.e., scouting makes recommendations, GM acts on those.  I don't know that they are providing bad information; I only know what the GM is doing).

 

But looking at the bolded:  I think a part of this year's NHL strategy is to take those 5 players you named, each of which was either rushed to the NHL, asked to fill too high of a role on the team too quickly, or spent time in the AHL under bad coaching, is to fill in the gaps in their development to fit the future vision of this team.  Thus, Jack, the most talented player on the team, is being taught the defensive side of the game, Reino is learning to be more physical, Risto is pulling up his defensive numbers in line with expectations.  McCabe is settling in as a second pairing D.  Girgs is playing a more systematic but still physical game.  All these players have gaps in their development which are appearing to be addressed this year.

 

You look at Vegas and say that if they can do it, we should be able to.  But they had the benefit of an expansion draft, they don't have albatross contracts, and they don't have young stars developed under suspect and inconsistent coaching.  This year is a reset year and judging this club by what you see this year is not going to tell the whole story.

 

The sickness is passing, but the fever lingers.

They aren't praying hard enough.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with them in this trying time.

 

Thoughts and prayers.

Edited by Doohickie
This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a VERY SPECIFIC REASON to revive this one.

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