DEADLINE DAY -- Sabres trade speculation

[LGR4GM]

Can we trade Lehner for Keifer Bellows yet? We will toss in Beauliue too for fun. 

[Doohicksie]

Does anyone here think that Risto should be on the trading block?  He's always on the top pairing but he might be more of a second pair guy.  For whatever reason he's been overused in his relatively short career and no matter how much the coach du jour knows he shouldn't, they play him 30 minutes a night.

Maybe a change of scenery could break that cycle.

[darksabre]

Does anyone here think that Risto should be on the trading block?  He's always on the top pairing but he might be more of a second pair guy.  For whatever reason he's been overused in his relatively short career and no matter how much the coach du jour knows he shouldn't, they play him 30 minutes a night.

Maybe a change of scenery could break that cycle.

Risto is Tyler Myers without the injury bug. Trade him if you want, or keep him around because he'll have years where he's hot. But he'll also have years where all he's doing is eating minutes. 

[North Buffalo]

We need a guy who is physical like Risto. But he needs a better passer to pair with than scandella. That being said they dont have a lot to pass to and need a second pairing to take off some more of those minutes.

[Brawndo]

Does anyone here think that Risto should be on the trading block?  He's always on the top pairing but he might be more of a second pair guy.  For whatever reason he's been overused in his relatively short career and no matter how much the coach du jour knows he shouldn't, they play him 30 minutes a night.

Maybe a change of scenery could break that cycle.

With the Defenseman Pipeline being so barren, they can’t make any trades involving him

 

More from Friedman’s 31 Thoughts

 

8. There were some rumblings about Ryan O’Reilly, but those were shot down by multiple sources. GM Jason Botterill witnessed Pittsburgh overpower teams down the middle, and if the Sabres lose O’Reilly they do not have an in-house replacement. And when uberprospect Casey Mittelstadt is ready, isn’t he better off with both O’Reilly and Jack Eichel there?

[WildCard]

Risto is Tyler Myers without the injury bug. Trade him if you want, or keep him around because he'll have years where he's hot. But he'll also have years where all he's doing is eating minutes. 

I don't think Risto is anything like Tyler Myers 

[dudacek]

Bad passes last night notwithstanding, Risto is playing better lately than he was to start the season (maybe a first for his career)

We need to be acquiring Ristos, not trading them away.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[Radar]

Yardbarker had article today saying Sabres May have waited too long to move Kane and thinks his value has dropped considerably. I agree.

[LGR4GM]

Yardbarker had article today saying Sabres May have waited too long to move Kane and thinks his value has dropped considerably. I agree.

What is recency bias. 

[Doohicksie]

We need a guy who is physical like Risto. But he needs a better passer to pair with than scandella. That being said they dont have a lot to pass to and need a second pairing to take off some more of those minutes.

 

So pair him with Antipin... he's a better passer, isn't he?  Get a top pair guy, put him with Scandella and make Antipin/Risto your second pairing.

[darksabre]

What is recency bias. 

 

You think GM's don't see his recent play and adjust their evaluation? 

 

I'm going to keep saying it, but I think people here were drastically over-valuing Kane's value as a rental. I think GM's see him as a question mark. His production lately is why. We put him on a lower line and he didn't do anything. That's not great if a team wants to add scoring outside of their top line. 

[sabills]

You think GM's don't see his recent play and adjust their evaluation? 

 

I'm going to keep saying it, but I think people here were drastically over-valuing Kane's value as a rental. I think GM's see him as a question mark. His production lately is why. We put him on a lower line and he didn't do anything. That's not great if a team wants to add scoring outside of their top line. 

Even if they don't adjust their evaluation (short of him being on a crazy scoring tear all year I think most of these guys have their opinion on players pretty set in their head), they certainly point to that non-scoring streak and use it as a reason to offer less.

[LTS]

  

 

 

And that’s the important question. There’s no reason to take on a substantially worse netmimder in a trade unless the Islanders even up that deal.

 

The Sabres don't care about taking on a horrible goaltender.  This season is shot anyway.  The question is what can thy get from the prospect/pick pool from the Islanders.  Given the number of UFA that the Islanders have coming up I would imagine they are not going to be looking to trade prospects that are near ready.  Given that the Islanders have two 1st rounders (if I am not mistaken) it might be possible to get one from them.  If not and they have given up on Ho-Sang then perhaps he is available.  I am not sure you can get D from them at this point.

 

You think GM's don't see his recent play and adjust their evaluation? 

 

I'm going to keep saying it, but I think people here were drastically over-valuing Kane's value as a rental. I think GM's see him as a question mark. His production lately is why. We put him on a lower line and he didn't do anything. That's not great if a team wants to add scoring outside of their top line. 

 

I don't think any GM is judging him on his current performance.  We all see that he's checked out and so do other GMs.  I doubt anyone believes that the current Kane play is indicative of how he will play once traded.  He's basically in self-preservation mode.  An injury now insures that he misses out on a playoff run and lowers his payday in the off-season.

 

He NEEDS to be traded now.  Once moved he can put it all on the line and that performance will be what adjusts his UFA payday up or down.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Based on the some of the comments above.

 

1) The only way to break the Risto over playing cycle is to get better D here who earn some of those minutes.  Guhle is hopefully step 1 in that direction.  As much as I know we need to score more goals, I hope the Kane trade brings back another capable D.  We need 4 D who can play 22+ a night.  We have 2 (Risto and Scandella).  Until we have 4, the over usage of Risto will continue.

 

2) I think management hopes that long-term the 2 top 6 LW we need come from a group of Nylander, Mittlestadt and if we draft Zadina or Tkachuk.  We also might get lucky and Smith or Olofsson steal one of those jobs in camp and then run with it. 

 

3) ROR - are we reading something into a situation that doesn't really exist.  Maybe Jack and ROR aren't buddies, but they aren't enemies either.  They do seem to work together pretty well on the PP.

 

4) Kane should have been traded weeks ago. He has always been streaky, but we need him to pick it up again.  The drop off for Kane and Pommers and the increase for KO just shows how amazingly talented Jack is.  If you play with him you thrive and if you don't........

 

5) At this point deadline day is going to be a big disappointed.  Only Kane is likely to get traded and his value most certainly has diminished.  Right now I say we get a 2nd rd pick, a roster player (JAG) and a decent prospect.

[LTS]

Based on the some of the comments above.

 

1) The only way to break the Risto over playing cycle is to get better D here who earn some of those minutes.  Guhle is hopefully step 1 in that direction.  As much as I know we need to score more goals, I hope the Kane trade brings back another capable D.  We need 4 D who can play 22+ a night.  We have 2 (Risto and Scandella).  Until we have 4, the over usage of Risto will continue.

 

2) I think management hopes that long-term the 2 top 6 LW we need come from a group of Nylander, Mittlestadt and if we draft Zadina or Tkachuk.  We also might get lucky and Smith or Olofsson steal one of those jobs in camp and then run with it. 

 

3) ROR - are we reading something into a situation that doesn't really exist.  Maybe Jack and ROR aren't buddies, but they aren't enemies either.  They do seem to work together pretty well on the PP.

 

4) Kane should have been traded weeks ago. He has always been streaky, but we need him to pick it up again.  The drop off for Kane and Pommers and the increase for KO just shows how amazingly talented Jack is.  If you play with him you thrive and if you don't........

 

5) At this point deadline day is going to be a big disappointed.  Only Kane is likely to get traded and his value most certainly has diminished.  Right now I say we get a 2nd rd pick, a roster player (JAG) and a decent prospect.

 

The only way to have traded Kane weeks ago would be for the return you stated he would get today.  There are no shortage of media members, etc. who have said there was no market for a move.  The only way would be to sell cheap and even then maybe not get anything.

 

The top two rental forwards are Nash and Kane. 

 

I assume that both NYR and BUF will eat 50% of remaining salary for both.  So we can look at the following.

 

Nash is restricted to where he can go.

Nash has a higher salary requirement.

Nash has 15g and 10a on a team that doesn't totally suck.

 

Kane can go anywhere.

Kane has a lower salary.

Kane has 16g and 20a on a team that totally sucks.

 

There's no need for doom and gloom here.  Just gotta be patient at this point.  The market is playing itself into its eventual position.

[inkman]

But but Kane wear sweat pants and does push ups with money!! He's the devil I tell ya! #everydinosauranalyst

[erickompositör72]

Nash is restricted to where he can go.

Nash has a higher salary requirement.

Nash has 15g and 10a on a team that doesn't totally suck.

 

Kane can go anywhere.

Kane has a lower salary.

Kane has 16g and 20a on a team that totally sucks.

 

There's no need for doom and gloom here.  Just gotta be patient at this point.  The market is playing itself into its eventual position.

 

Did not realize Nash's current stats. This looks pretty good for us. We will get a good deal for Kane. I'd bet people on the forum getting really impatient are not very good negotiators IRL

[Drunkard]

Did not realize Nash's current stats. This looks pretty good for us. We will get a good deal for Kane. I'd bet people on the forum getting really impatient are not very good negotiators IRL

I would have traded him in early January to whomever offered me the best prospect. But that was before he took his foot off the gas and I was worried he was going to be injured at the deadline.

[pi2000]

Ullmark not in the Roch lineup tonight. Trade winds blowing?

[Rasmus_]

From McKenzie

 

Bob McKenzie said on Tuesday's edition of Insider Trading the New York Rangers ask for Rick Nash is similar to the price tag the Buffalo Sabres have put on Evander Kane.

McKenzie lists the current price for the 33-year-old forward at "a first-round pick, a top prospect and another lesser player, or prospect or pick in combination with those."

McKenzie notes that many general managers around the league feel that price is simply too high for a rental player. He believes a more realistic price, and likely what each player will move for, is a first-round pick and either a second-round pick or a prospect.

 

The Rangers expecting to get a return similar to Kane for a 33 year old who has been average at best is laughable.  They must think Nash is still the 27 year old they originally traded for.  He's as far from that player as you can think.  The only difference may be control of the puck, but you're not looking for Rick Nash or Evander Kane to skate the puck up the ice. 

[StuckinFL]

Ullmark not in the Roch lineup tonight. Trade winds blowing?

Interesting...

[darksabre]

Ullmark not in the Roch lineup tonight. Trade winds blowing?

Let's Go Amerks mentions at some point today that it is an injury of some kind, although it wasn't holding him out of practice.

[Huckleberry]

Well If Lehner is gone, Johnson I really don't want back either.    

 

Ullmark / Enroth (playing well in the khl) combo seems good to me.

[Crusader1969]

Interesting...

Definitely an injury. Happened late in his last game. Took a shot off the shoulder I believe. Nothing too serious

[Thorner]

The Sabres don't care about taking on a horrible goaltender. This season is shot anyway. The question is what can thy get from the prospect/pick pool from the Islanders. Given the number of UFA that the Islanders have coming up I would imagine they are not going to be looking to trade prospects that are near ready. Given that the Islanders have two 1st rounders (if I am not mistaken) it might be possible to get one from them. If not and they have given up on Ho-Sang then perhaps he is available. I am not sure you can get D from them at this point.

 

 

 

I don't think any GM is judging him on his current performance. We all see that he's checked out and so do other GMs. I doubt anyone believes that the current Kane play is indicative of how he will play once traded. He's basically in self-preservation mode. An injury now insures that he misses out on a playoff run and lowers his payday in the off-season.

 

He NEEDS to be traded now. Once moved he can put it all on the line and that performance will be what adjusts his UFA payday up or down.

Ya, that’s what I said....

 

Based on the some of the comments above.

 

1) The only way to break the Risto over playing cycle is to get better D here who earn some of those minutes. Guhle is hopefully step 1 in that direction. As much as I know we need to score more goals, I hope the Kane trade brings back another capable D. We need 4 D who can play 22+ a night. We have 2 (Risto and Scandella). Until we have 4, the over usage of Risto will continue.

 

2) I think management hopes that long-term the 2 top 6 LW we need come from a group of Nylander, Mittlestadt and if we draft Zadina or Tkachuk. We also might get lucky and Smith or Olofsson steal one of those jobs in camp and then run with it.

 

3) ROR - are we reading something into a situation that doesn't really exist. Maybe Jack and ROR aren't buddies, but they aren't enemies either. They do seem to work together pretty well on the PP.

 

4) Kane should have been traded weeks ago. He has always been streaky, but we need him to pick it up again. The drop off for Kane and Pommers and the increase for KO just shows how amazingly talented Jack is. If you play with him you thrive and if you don't........

 

5) At this point deadline day is going to be a big disappointed. Only Kane is likely to get traded and his value most certainly has diminished. Right now I say we get a 2nd rd pick, a roster player (JAG) and a decent prospect.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

 

The only thing I’d contend is that managmenent probably sees Mittelstadt as, or hopes him to eventually be, a centre.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Thorny