MattPie Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 Then what is the system the Sabres play and why is Reinhart not a fit? What type of system would he be comfortable in? By all reports, Housley's system preaches skating speed, so slower players aren't a natural fit there. That being said, I don't think his speed is that bad, there's just a ton of dysfunction going on so it's tough to figure out which parts are system issues, player talent issues, or malaise issues. I'm still not sure there isn't a fair bit of Bylsma-hangover though; I see a fair number of passes from the defending zone to the far side of the neutral zone which sounds more like last year than what was hoped for this year.
Huckleberry Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 Trade Kane + Girgensons/Larsson to the penguins for Hagelin + 1st round + a prospect.
7+6=13 Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 By all reports, Housley's system preaches skating speed, so slower players aren't a natural fit there. That being said, I don't think his speed is that bad, there's just a ton of dysfunction going on so it's tough to figure out which parts are system issues, player talent issues, or malaise issues. I'm still not sure there isn't a fair bit of Bylsma-hangover though; I see a fair number of passes from the defending zone to the far side of the neutral zone which sounds more like last year than what was hoped for this year. I think his skating is bad enough that he can't play an open ice game. His best attributes are being in good position and having good hands. The problem, IMO, is those are attributes and not fundamental to a system of hockey. Why he can't do more is tough to know but I see effort. I'm trying to recall why he was successful his first 2 years. I ask myself what did he do to get 42 and 47 points and I can't recall. I don't know what he did well to fully understand what he's not doing now. He's a curious case and understanding what's gone wrong is way behind my hockey acumen.
Rasmus_ Posted January 8, 2018 Report Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Trade Kane + Girgensons/Larsson to the penguins for Hagelin + 1st round + a prospect. This is something I personally have zero interest in. Unless it's Sprong. Hagelin is a scrub. Edited January 8, 2018 by De Listig Ett
Brawndo Posted January 9, 2018 Report Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) From Friedman’s 31 Thoughts I wonder if the Islanders take a look at Robin Lehner Edited January 9, 2018 by det har elektrolyter
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Taro asked on another thread whether Lehner’s and Kane’s value would fall if we don’t move them soon? (I think i’m paraphrasing the question right). I think the better question is will we get back anything near what we gave up for them. Lehner cost is a mid 1st plus taking on a bad contract. That 1st is now a near ready prospect. I would love to get a top 9 near ready prospect back for Lehner now, but I suspect we’ll get a 2nd and a goalie no matter when we do the deal (now or in the summer). Kane is an interesting question. I think his value will be steady until near the deadline. However we gave a ton to get him. I look at that deal as Stafford for the goalie prospect. Bogo for Myers and everything else for Kane. That means 1st rd pick Armia (now a 3rd line player), high 2nd rd pick Lemieux (now a near ready top 9 prospect) and a late 1st (who is also now a near ready top 6 prospect). Can we get even close to this? Can we get any 1st? Can we get a near ready prospect and a 2nd rd pick?
inkman Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Kane was 3 years younger with that many years left on his deal. His value was thrice what it is now. Edited January 10, 2018 by inkman
Brawndo Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 It will probably be Kane for 1st and B Level Prospect or if they are lucky Kane for A Level and 2nd. Lehner is worth a 2nd.
inkman Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Deal #40 Whwn he nets a 5th rounder the board will implode
Brawndo Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Kane’s Price a 1st/Prospect/and a conditional pick if he signs. Teams that have shown the most interest aren’t sure if they are buyers, expect something after All Star Break https://twitter.com/tsnhockey/status/950872765053194240
PalmTreeMafia Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Taro asked on another thread whether Lehner’s and Kane’s value would fall if we don’t move them soon? (I think i’m paraphrasing the question right). I think the better question is will we get back anything near what we gave up for them. Lehner cost is a mid 1st plus taking on a bad contract. That 1st is now a near ready prospect. I would love to get a top 9 near ready prospect back for Lehner now, but I suspect we’ll get a 2nd and a goalie no matter when we do the deal (now or in the summer). Kane is an interesting question. I think his value will be steady until near the deadline. However we gave a ton to get him. I look at that deal as Stafford for the goalie prospect. Bogo for Myers and everything else for Kane. That means 1st rd pick Armia (now a 3rd line player), high 2nd rd pick Lemieux (now a near ready top 9 prospect) and a late 1st (who is also now a near ready top 6 prospect). Can we get even close to this? Can we get any 1st? Can we get a near ready prospect and a 2nd rd pick? Armia and Lemieux replacements can easily be found via free agency or low-risk trades. Losing the 21st and 25th picks of the 2015 draft are the parts of those trades that always bothered me the most, but then again drafting outside the top 20 has never been a sure thing. Wasting a 2nd overall on Reinhart and an 8th overall on Nylander have set this franchise back a lot more than Murray's Lehner and Kane trades. Getting a non-lottery 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, a player, and a prospect are what I'm hoping to see collectively from future Lehner and Kane trades.
WildCard Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Kane’s Price a 1st/Prospect/and a conditional pick if he signs. Teams that have shown the most interest aren’t sure if they are buyers, expect something after All Star Break https://twitter.com/tsnhockey/status/950872765053194240 Just to clarify, because I was confused myself LeBrun: 1st round pick + Prospect + Conditional pick (if he signs) Problem is, number of teams that want Kane aren't sure if they're buyers or not yet. LeBrun thinks they're going to wait until February to see where they are Edited January 10, 2018 by Jokertecken
Taro T Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Taro asked on another thread whether Lehner’s and Kane’s value would fall if we don’t move them soon? (I think i’m paraphrasing the question right). I think the better question is will we get back anything near what we gave up for them. Lehner cost is a mid 1st plus taking on a bad contract. That 1st is now a near ready prospect. I would love to get a top 9 near ready prospect back for Lehner now, but I suspect we’ll get a 2nd and a goalie no matter when we do the deal (now or in the summer). Kane is an interesting question. I think his value will be steady until near the deadline. However we gave a ton to get him. I look at that deal as Stafford for the goalie prospect. Bogo for Myers and everything else for Kane. That means 1st rd pick Armia (now a 3rd line player), high 2nd rd pick Lemieux (now a near ready top 9 prospect) and a late 1st (who is also now a near ready top 6 prospect). Can we get even close to this? Can we get any 1st? Can we get a near ready prospect and a 2nd rd pick? :huh: Pretty sure someone else asked the Q, either that or it is a SERIOUS paraphrase.
Weave Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Wasting a 2nd overall on Reinhart and an 8th overall on Nylander have set this franchise back a lot more than Murray's Lehner and Kane trades. I think this will prove to be true. Very reminescent of the days of drafting Shawn Anderson in the 1st round. Is Reinhart todays Wayne Primeau?
nfreeman Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Armia and Lemieux replacements can easily be found via free agency or low-risk trades. Losing the 21st and 25th picks of the 2015 draft are the parts of those trades that always bothered me the most, but then again drafting outside the top 20 has never been a sure thing. Wasting a 2nd overall on Reinhart and an 8th overall on Nylander have set this franchise back a lot more than Murray's Lehner and Kane trades. Getting a non-lottery 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, a player, and a prospect are what I'm hoping to see collectively from future Lehner and Kane trades. This. However, I think there is zero possibility of getting a 2nd for Lehner.
Scottysabres Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 WPG's speed is impressive. Lots of snipers on that team, they are stacked. Good build for them. Guhle has looked ok, next season when he's up I expect him to still be working out some rookie mistakes, but he should slot nicely as a 3/4. We need speed and beef. Murray's Reinhart choice is definitely a failure. Roll of the dice I guess. But the lack of tangible commitment performance wise by 8 to 10 players across the roster and that horrible Lehner trade are definitely causing some scar tissue.
LTS Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 This. However, I think there is zero possibility of getting a 2nd for Lehner. As much as I want to agree with you, I have to keep in mind that hockey GMs are strange cats. You know there's a coach and GM saying to themselves that Lehner can be the solution for them. They will blame the Sabres lack of defensive support that leads to a goalie not really trying his best because "what's the point". They will have a goalie coach who says we just need to do this to fix his game and he'll be in top shape. I look at the goals scored over gloves of Johnson and Lehner and I recall watching Kevin Weekes discuss how many goalies are coached to go down to soon and are now leaving that spot open. I am sure there is a goalie coach out there saying to themselves we can get this out of their game. There are similarities to what Johnson and Lehner are doing (besides both being bad) and at some point you have to look at the goalie coach and ask what is it he's telling them. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the Islanders because right now they are the only team in the league that has given up more goals than the Sabres. They have to be thinking that anything is an improvement. Halak: SV: .904 GA: 3.24 Greiss: SV: .881 GA: 3.89 Lehner: SV: .910 GA: 2.94 Johnson SV: .881 GA:3.76 The Islanders have to decide if they are going to try and make the playoffs (currently 1 point behind PIttsburgh for 8th and 3 behind NYR for 7th). The Islanders are 3rd overall in goals scored. They have to be looking at their goaltending and thinking to themselves that if we go get an upgrade at goal we have a great chance to go deep in the playoffs. The Islanders, Carolina, and Pittsburgh are all battling for the 8th spot. They are all -12 in goal differential. The Flyers are there at +1. I think those teams are the ones who are trying to see if they are chasing the playoff run or not. I think the Hurricanes are good with Ward and Darling and the Penguins are set in goal. The Western conference is less of a mess. You have Calgary, Minnesota, Colorado, and Anaheim battling for Chicago's 8th spot. I don't see any of those teams looking for a goaltender as the solution. Calgary and Anaheim will be looking for more offense. I think the Wild know they are a victim of injuries and ride it out and Colorado is so far improved over last year they aren't required to sell the house to make a run this year.
nfreeman Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Certainly a panicky GM could overpay for Lehner (sounds familiar, eh?). I just think that Lehner is JAG and therefore isn't a clear upgrade over what any of those teams now have. Maybe a 3rd that conditionally becomes a 2nd based on team and Lehner's performance?
Scottysabres Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 It's time to start moving the dead weight. Bogo, Lehner, one of Larsson or Girgs, Reinhart. Might be time to move Kane. But I'd be looking at ROR. This team won't be a contender for at least a couple more seasons. I'd say 2019-2020 season at the earliest. He would be the player to land that elusive 1/2 defenseman.
Huckleberry Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 This is something I personally have zero interest in. Unless it's Sprong. Hagelin is a scrub. Sprong could be the prospect, but the won't let him go, Hagelin has only one more year after this one and you'll need warm bodies to finish the season.
Brawndo Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 WHERE DOES EVANDER KANE END UP? It’s highly unlikely the Isles treat Tavares as a rental chip even if they fall out of playoff contention, so the Sabres’ Kane, a quintessential power forward, is the best pending UFA forward available. Even though he’s a single goal behind Jack Eichel for the team lead since debuting with the Sabres in 2015-16, Kane looks like a must-sell piece for a Buffalo team going nowhere and looking to secure more picks and prospects. Per Pierre LeBrun via TSN, the Sabres’ have set the price as a first-round pick, a prospect and possibly a conditional pick if Kane signs an extension with the team that acquires him. Kane, who plays a physically taxing style, has remained healthy this season. He’ll cost a lot to acquire, but he has one of the most unique skill sets on the market. He’s a simultaneously a vicious physical intimidator and good goal scorer who shoots a ton. Plenty of teams could use that. Depending on where Kane lands, he could turn a good team into a great one. The Boston Bruins, for example, are playing as well as anyone right now but still lack veteran depth at forward. He’d make them much more of a threat to top contender Tampa Bay in the Atlantic. Another team searching for forward upgrades: the aforementioned Penguins. They lack size and snarl on their scoring lines, so he’d give them something new. From Hockey News
WildCard Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 TSN confirmed the other day that Boston will not move their top prospects
Swedesessed Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Lehner IMO can get a 2nd or 3rd. Not locked up for a long term deal, a contender may view him as a viable backup/insurance policy. Kane can probably get a 1 and a prospect or a defenseman with some years left on a deal that can be an asset. Here's my ideas :flirt: https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/550217 Excellent job and I like some of your ideas here
dudacek Posted January 10, 2018 Report Posted January 10, 2018 Lehner could return something useful from a bubble team with bad goaltending, ie the Flyers or the Islanders.
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