Good Read - Other GM’s are killing their teams with TM type decisions.

[GASabresIUFAN]

...... We could kept TM or hired any of these guys.....

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/gms-paying-dearly-bad-gambles-014711149.html

 

It's funny, but getting older, slower and more expensive doesn't pan out. Really? I'm shocked.

Edited November 23, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

I don't have any hate for GMTM

[spndnchz]

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[GASabresIUFAN]

Better?

[Eleven]

I don't have any hate for GMTM

 

Neither do I.  I also fail to see parallels between Murray and the GMs / moves mentioned in the article.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Neither do I. I also fail to see parallels between Murray and the GMs / moves mentioned in the article.

Really? The GM, especially in Edm, signed older and slower players to big contracts, after giving away younger, faster, cheaper players and the team is worse for it.

Edited November 25, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[Eleven]

Really? The GM, especially in Edm, signed older and slower players to big contracts, after giving away younger, faster, cheaper players and the team is worse for it.

 

Murray signed Moulson to a big contract.  The other players he acquired were either young, quick, or cheap.  O'Reilly (young and quick), Kane (young and quick), Bogosian (young), Gorges (really not that expensive for an experienced D).  He also didn't ship out a lot of valuable younger players.  Mostly chaff.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Murray signed Moulson to a big contract. The other players he acquired were either young, quick, or cheap. O'Reilly (young and quick), Kane (young and quick), Bogosian (young), Gorges (really not that expensive for an experienced D). He also didn't ship out a lot of valuable younger players. Mostly chaff.

What? He gave away two first rd picksin the 2015 draft. traded away 2 2nd rd picks for Fasching, signed the pillar Franson, signed KO to a huge long-term contract. Acquired the overpaid inept Bogo. Gave away 1st rd pick Pysyk for the overpaid and ineffective Kulikov. Last I looked, Compher, Armia, McNabb, Pysyk, Zadorov, Lemieux are all in the NHL and mostly playing pretty well. Their teams are all significantly ahead of the Sabres in the standings. We would be significantly better of with those players and picks he traded away for the useless vets he acquired including ROR, Lehner and Kane. We’d have a better, cheaper, faster, deeper and likely more coachable team.

Edited November 25, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[Huckleberry]

Really? The GM, especially in Edm, signed older and slower players to big contracts, after giving away younger, faster, cheaper players and the team is worse for it.

 

I don't think we can really count the Moulson into this, by the time we signed him we needed to get to the capfloor in our two tank years.

And he probably wanted some length and security instead.

What? He gave away two first rd picksin the 2015 draft. traded away 2 2nd rd picks for Fasching, signed the pillar Franson, signed KO to a huge long-term contract. Acquired the overpaid inept Bogo. Gave away 1st rd pick Pysyk for the overpaid and ineffective Kulikov. Last I looked, Compher, Armia, McNabb, Pysyk, Zadorov, Lemieux are all in the NHL and mostly playing pretty well. Their teams are all significantly ahead of the Sabres in the standings. We would be significantly better of with those players and picks he traded away for the useless vets he acquired including ROR, Lehner and Kane. We’d have a better, cheaper, faster, deeper and likely more coachable team.

 

Zadorov : overweight , out of shape and often benched.   (KHL bound in two years for sure)

Lemieux: just sniffing at the NHL, and didn't want to be here.

Pysyk: Top 4 D in florida, a team that doesn't know what direction it is heading come playing style.

McNabb: Will be a slow as Franson in a few years.

Compher: might be our only good loss a top 9 winger.

Armia:  Some high light reel stuff , but inconsistent play and bottom 6 guy.

[Eleven]

I don't think we can really count the Moulson into this, by the time we signed him we needed to get to the capfloor in our two tank years.

And he probably wanted some length and security instead.

 

Zadorov : overweight , out of shape and often benched.   (KHL bound in two years for sure)

Lemieux: just sniffing at the NHL, and didn't want to be here.

Pysyk: Top 4 D in florida, a team that doesn't know what direction it is heading come playing style.

McNabb: Will be a slow as Franson in a few years.

Compher: might be our only good loss a top 9 winger.

Armia:  Some high light reel stuff , but inconsistent play and bottom 6 guy.

 

Thanks for doing the work!

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't think we can really count the Moulson into this, by the time we signed him we needed to get to the capfloor in our two tank years.

And he probably wanted some length and security instead.

 

Zadorov : overweight , out of shape and often benched. (KHL bound in two years for sure)

Lemieux: just sniffing at the NHL, and didn't want to be here.

Pysyk: Top 4 D in florida, a team that doesn't know what direction it is heading come playing style.

McNabb: Will be a slow as Franson in a few years.

Compher: might be our only good loss a top 9 winger.

Armia: Some high light reel stuff , but inconsistent play and bottom 6 guy.

Thanks for doing the work!

Yet you ignore the 2 1st rd picks wasted and the 3 2nd rd picks. Also McNabb and especially Pysyk would look great on our 3rd pairing and Armia and Compher would look nice as depth on our third line (or higher in Compher’s case). Also who cares if Lemieux didn’t want to be here. If he got a shot at the NHL he’d have come around.

 

The biggest issue is the lack of depth in our organization and it’s pretty clear the TM sacrificed that depth for expensive and mostly failed shiny toys.

Edited November 25, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

Pysyk would help. McNabb is worse than Falk or Antipin. Don’t see him in our top six.

And as usual, you talk about the depth we gave up without ever addressing the question of what our top six looks like without Kane and O’Reilly

[GASabresIUFAN]

Pysyk would help. McNabb is worse than Falk or Antipin. Don’t see him in our top six.

And as usual, you talk about the depth we gave up without ever addressing the question of what our top six looks like without Kane and O’Reilly

It's not really possible to know.  Compher might well be in our top 6, as might Boeser if we had drafted him.  We also don't know what other moved would have been made.  What might a competent GM have gotten for Myers?  What other FAs would have been signed.  ROR was a FA for the following off-season.  Maybe we'd have signed him then instead of trading for him.   Without ROR, it's quite possible Sam would be playing 2nd line center.  The Pysyk deal is one of the ones that annoys me the most.  It was completely unnecessary.  It killed our cap and brought back an expensive declining player, who wasn't as good as the player we gave up.  The rationale was that Kulikov was better offensively and we'd lose Pysyk in the expansion draft.  After seeing the draft, Pysyk was available and wasn't even a consideration for LV.  Also McNabb is a far superior player to Falk.  McNabb has been a full time NHL regular for 4 seasons.  Averaging 17 minutes a night for his career and over 19 minutes a night on LV which features a D group far superior to ours.  Falk is older, but has never been a full time NHL player.   Even if they were equal, keeping McNabb would have also kept 2 2nd rd picks and those draftees would be added depth to the organization.   

 

The only things we do know for sure is we'd likely have much better depth on D and that TM stripped the depth of this organization to add Bogo, ROR, Kane and Lehner and it didn't work.  We don't have a winning club or depth in the organization nor the cap room to fix it.    

[JohnRobertEichel]

Does anyone project Zadorov, Pysyk, or McNabb to be top-4 defensemen on a playoff-caliber NHL team? Does anyone project Armia, Lemieux, or Compher to be top-6 forwards on a playoff-caliber NHL team?

 

Five of the aforementioned six players were Darcy Regier picks. I'm not at all a fan of what Tim Murray did to this organiation, but I place more blame on the state of this franchise on Regier and his decade of atrocious drafting than I do on a GM who was here for a comparatively short stay of ~3 years. 

 

If we want to be truly fair, it's probably still a little too early to declare Tim Murray a total disaster of a GM. His legacy as a Sabre GM will be largely determined from 11 guys: O'Reilly, Kane, Lehner, Okposo, Eichel, Reinhart, Nylander, Asplund, Guhle, Pu, and Borgen. If many of these players become key contributors on a Stanley Cup contending team years from now, then it would simply not be reasonable to think of Murray as a terrible GM. Below average? Sure. He did, after all, get fired.

 

It's probably not too early to call the Kulikov, Gorges, or Fasching trades as "losses," but then again none of those were too consequential in the franchise-destroying sense of the word.

 

I'm not yet ready to call the Lehner, Kane, and O'Reilly trades as "losses" for the franchise. Part of the reason for that is because - like I already mentioned - we gave away a lot of our own garbage for these guys. Furthermore, these 3 guys are still on the team and thus are tradeable assets that Botterill can turn into "wins." I also don't value NHL draft picks outside the top 20 like others here apparently do...success rate is too low and too much into the future compared to an established NHL player.

[Eleven]

Does anyone project Zadorov, Pysyk, or McNabb to be top-4 defensemen on a playoff-caliber NHL team? Does anyone project Armia, Lemieux, or Compher to be top-6 forwards on a playoff-caliber NHL team?

 

Five of the aforementioned six players were Darcy Regier picks. I'm not at all a fan of what Tim Murray did to this organiation, but I place more blame on the state of this franchise on Regier and his decade of atrocious drafting than I do on a GM who was here for a comparatively short stay of ~3 years. 

 

If we want to be truly fair, it's probably still a little too early to declare Tim Murray a total disaster of a GM. His legacy as a Sabre GM will be largely determined from 11 guys: O'Reilly, Kane, Lehner, Okposo, Eichel, Reinhart, Nylander, Asplund, Guhle, Pu, and Borgen. If many of these players become key contributors on a Stanley Cup contending team years from now, then it would simply not be reasonable to think of Murray as a terrible GM. Below average? Sure. He did, after all, get fired.

 

It's probably not too early to call the Kulikov, Gorges, or Fasching trades as "losses," but then again none of those were too consequential in the franchise-destroying sense of the word.

 

I'm not yet ready to call the Lehner, Kane, and O'Reilly trades as "losses" for the franchise. Part of the reason for that is because - like I already mentioned - we gave away a lot of our own garbage for these guys. Furthermore, these 3 guys are still on the team and thus are tradeable assets that Botterill can turn into "wins." I also don't value NHL draft picks outside the top 20 like others here apparently do...success rate is too low and too much into the future compared to an established NHL player.

 

Well stated and I agree w/ most of it.