Losing Culture

[SwampD]

How exactly did Bylsma protect the team? Can you explain it to me?

I never said that, and I'm not even sure what you are asking.

 

I will say that he put in a system that he thought would give the team the best chance to win. That's what a coach is supposed to do.

[Gramps]

Toronto?  Please.  The Cleveland Browns won titles, too.

 

I don't think Toronto has been to the finals in my lifetime.

 

To me, Toronto is the epitome of "losing culture."

 

Then at point do you identify a team as having a "losing culture" ? When was the last time the Canadiens won anything ? Bout 25 years ago ... would you classify them as a "losing culture" ? 

 

IMO, it's the totality of the franchise. Did the Red Sox have a "losing culture" prior to 2004 ? How about the Astros prior to this year ? 

[darksabre]

The one thing that I have heard -- in re winning culture -- is that you have a team that, from top to bottom, takes care of the dozens of "little things" (and not so little things) that ensure each player and the team is ready to do its absolute best.

 

I think a lot of that sort of stuff is behavioral -- routines, habits, etc. The one concrete example I once heard was how Drury got Campbell to ease off on the greasy burgers on game day and go with a simple chicken/pasta dish. I know that probably sounds inane now, but it was a specific example.

 

But there's also the extra work that good players on good teams are apparently putting in. The assistant quality coach (or whomever) loaded this iPad with footage of next week's opponents (including goalies). Have a look, and see what you can learn about how to deal with them.

 

And then there's the on-ice stuff. Is your self-imposed "limit" -- what you can honestly call your 100% -- something that is, in fact, limited by your not really wanting to push past the point of comfort? I get really uncomfortable chirping about this because I know for a feckin' FACT that, in terms of physical exertion, I am in that camp. I watch my one kid (who's inexplicably a really good athlete) push and push and push herself to higher levels of achievement and fitness -- I watched her lay her body OUT this past fall in the high school playoffs (and winced) -- and I knew, I know that, when I was her age, I would essentially reach a point where I was all "yep. nope. okay - you get to win this battle right here."

 

And more on-ice stuff: Are you truly grabbing an oar and pulling in the direction the coach is calling for? Or are you mixing in a fair dose of your own thing, your own agenda?

 

My thoughts on the two on-ice aspects: I think Reinhart is probably an issue re the first category, and I would imagine that Kane (and perhaps Eichel) is an issue re the second category.

 

And I think ROR is an issue re neither such category, but I also think he is probably two steps too slow right now.

Good stuff here Aud. 

[Eleven]

Then at point do you identify a team as having a "losing culture" ? When was the last time the Canadiens won anything ? Bout 25 years ago ... would you classify them as a "losing culture" ? 

 

IMO, it's the totality of the franchise. Did the Red Sox have a "losing culture" prior to 2004 ? How about the Astros prior to this year ? 

 

Toronto hasn't had a sniff of success in fifty years except for one time in 1999, which the Sabres took care of.  I don't think the same can be said of the Canadiens.   So if you want "totality of the franchise," yeah, the Leaves fit that definition, at least for as long as I've been a guest on this Earth.

 

I know the Red Sox had been to some World Series but other than that, I can't really tell you much about them or the Astros.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Eleven

[nfreeman]

The Drury stuff is right on -- sweating the little details creates focus and a determined mindset, IMHO.  I remember one story about someone not using proper form in the workout room and Drury very directly asking the guy why bother doing it if he wasn't going to do it right.

 

There's a reason guys like Drury are always on winning teams.

[That Aud Smell]

The Drury stuff is right on -- sweating the little details creates focus and a determined mindset, IMHO.  I remember one story about someone not using proper form in the workout room and Drury very directly asking the guy why bother doing it if he wasn't going to do it right.

 

There's a reason guys like Drury are always on winning teams.

 

I think there's something to it, for sure.

 

We may also recall his infamous turning off of the stereo/radio in the locker room -- his imposition of a business-like atmosphere.

 

It doesn't sound like a lot of fun, but, damn it, if it wasn't effective.

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat, of course.

[Doohicksie]

Then at point do you identify a team as having a "losing culture" ? When was the last time the Canadiens won anything ? Bout 25 years ago ... would you classify them as a "losing culture" ? 

 

IMO, it's the totality of the franchise. Did the Red Sox have a "losing culture" prior to 2004 ? How about the Astros prior to this year ? 

 

Big difference between not winning the championship and having a losing culture.  In 2005-06, the Sabres had a winning culture.  They didn't win the Cup, but they definitely expected to win.

 

I think what winning culture/losing culture comes down to going into a given game, do you expect the team to win?  I mean, a team isn't going to win every single game, but if they go into the game realistically expecting to win (because they've fielded the best time they could, they've done all their prep, they can depend on each other, and they expect to get a bit of luck their way perhaps), then that's a winning culture.

 

Right now I think it's safe to say the Sabres don't meet *any* of the qualifications in the parentheses above.  we know there are players in the pipeline that are better than players on the Sabres roster; we know they're not fully prepared for most games, we know they can't depend on each other as evidenced by the line shuffling, and we know the Sabres never catch a break.  They don't have a winning culture, and they're not close to it right now.

[That Aud Smell]

 

Does a losing culture maybe look a bit like this? I think it might.

 

(That's the face of the franchise with his stick across his legs, watching as Justin Williams toys with his goalie. Maybe he's also got issues in re my "category #1" above?)

Also, against doctor's orders, I read Harrington today (and learned there of Eichel's floating (missed it when I was there live)).

 

I was reminded that Harrington writes stuff like this:

 

Eichel has five goals in 20 games and is minus-9 for the season. He has one goal in his last 11 games and floated back into his zone to ghastly proportions on the opening goal here Saturday by Carolina's Justin Williams.

[darksabre]

I feel like I don't see anything wrong with where Jack is on that play. 

[WildCard]

I feel like I don't see anything wrong with where Jack is on that play. 

Whoever is next to him is going to beat him to a rebound if there is one. His body language is embarrassing too

[Gramps]

Big difference between not winning the championship and having a losing culture.  In 2005-06, the Sabres had a winning culture.  They didn't win the Cup, but they definitely expected to win.

 

I think what winning culture/losing culture comes down to going into a given game, do you expect the team to win?  I mean, a team isn't going to win every single game, but if they go into the game realistically expecting to win (because they've fielded the best time they could, they've done all their prep, they can depend on each other, and they expect to get a bit of luck their way perhaps), then that's a winning culture.

 

Right now I think it's safe to say the Sabres don't meet *any* of the qualifications in the parentheses above.  we know there are players in the pipeline that are better than players on the Sabres roster; we know they're not fully prepared for most games, we know they can't depend on each other as evidenced by the line shuffling, and we know the Sabres never catch a break.  They don't have a winning culture, and they're not close to it right now.

 

The 2005-06 team just had better players ... period ...  a bunch of 20+ goal scorers, defensemen that could score, 2 better than average goalies, and a captain that had previously won the Cup. I agree with your 4 points as management has not fielded the best team they could, coaching has not done the correct prep, this team doesn't seem to depend on each other, and luck sometimes comes to better teams. 

 

There is a simply not enough talent on this roster which in turn produces losses and fosters a "losing culture". 

Edited November 20, 2017 by gramps

[darksabre]

Whoever is next to him is going to beat him to a rebound if there is one. His body language is ###### embarrassing too

This is probably true. I'd have to see the video. 

[WildCard]

The 2005-06 team just had better players ... period ...  a bunch of 20+ goal scorers, defenseman that could score, 2 better than average goalies, and a captain that had previously won the Cup. I agree with your 4 points as management has not fielded the best team they could, coaching has not done the correct prep, this team doesn't seem to depend on each other, and luck sometimes comes to better teams. 

 

There is a simply not enough talent on this roster which in turn produces losses and fosters a "losing culture". 

That young core was brought up together and bonded while winning in the AHL IIRC too

[Scottysabres]

Without trying to sound too douchey, this seems like verbal ######. I literally have no idea how to visualize what you are talking about. Do the players let media members walk all over the logo in the locker room? Are they wrinkling their sweaters too much after removing them. Pride in the logo sounds like such rhetoric. Do they need to scream "we are the ###### Buffalo Sabres and we need to start playing like it".

I just see it too much in the corporate world. Pompous jack holes spouting about core values and acting with grit when they are hanging their admin or finger blasting another department manager during their lunch breaks.

You asked, I gave an opinion on it. Sports teams are more like units. When I served, you took pride in what you represented. The corporate world merely attempted to emulate what has been done in unit building.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Toronto hasn't had a sniff of success in fifty years except for one time in 1999, which the Sabres took care of.  I don't think the same can be said of the Canadiens.   So if you want "totality of the franchise," yeah, the Leaves fit that definition, at least for as long as I've been a guest on this Earth.

 

I know the Red Sox had been to some World Series but other than that, I can't really tell you much about them or the Astros.

 

The Leaves did make the WCF (yeah, the West ... what a joke ... that Ballard was priceless) in 1993, but Cheatin' Wayne and Fraser took care of that too.

[LTS]

Good stuff. (Btw, I place little stock in what the LV GM said about why his team succeeded -- I don't think it's just (or even mostly) the absence of pressure that led to results.)

 

This piece quoted here was especially good, imo. The Sabres just do not resemble a team. Fits and starts of it (being a team) are there, but no more than that.

 

Well, to be fair, it has been repeated by other expansion GMs.  In year 1 the team has no expectations.  It is likely the only year in hockey a group of players will have very little expectation to win.  In addition, I hear harping on how they most important thing they do all year is win at home.  The road doesn't matter but to cement themselves with the fans they need to win at home.  They've been doing that as well.  I think there are definitely other aspects that play into their success but it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

I feel like I don't see anything wrong with where Jack is on that play. 

 

I agree.  In this situation if Jack hustles back so hard that he can get to Faulk then he most likely leaves the trailing Hurricanes player (near the blue line) open and assuming Faulk is good enough he simply puts the pass back to that guy who then walk down the slot and takes his shot.

 

You can pick on his body posture, but here's what I recall.  He had been on the ice for the power play and had been out there for awhile.  The puck is now in his zone and he can't make a change.  He knows he's going to need the energy to get the puck out of the zone so if he has a slight opportunity to conserve energy he should take it.  That stance says, I'm gliding into the zone, in position, and conserving energy to get the puck back out so we can make a change.

 

There are times when Jack should be hustling and he wasn't, but I don't see this being one of them.

[Gramps]

Toronto hasn't had a sniff of success in fifty years except for one time in 1999, which the Sabres took care of.  I don't think the same can be said of the Canadiens.   So if you want "totality of the franchise," yeah, the Leaves fit that definition, at least for as long as I've been a guest on this Earth.

 

I know the Red Sox had been to some World Series but other than that, I can't really tell you much about them or the Astros.

 

I might concede that the Leafs have had a "losing culture" since expansion, but they have something we don't. A winning tradition. 

[WildCard]

TSN and NHl Network are absolutely tearing Eichel apart for his floating and attitude. Saying it's embarrassing, it's destroying this team, and he's a joke. They even have terms for it, Doing the Jack, and Circle Jacking.

[That Aud Smell]

This is probably true. I'd have to see the video. 

 

 

Well, to be fair, it has been repeated by other expansion GMs.  In year 1 the team has no expectations.  It is likely the only year in hockey a group of players will have very little expectation to win.  In addition, I hear harping on how they most important thing they do all year is win at home.  The road doesn't matter but to cement themselves with the fans they need to win at home.  They've been doing that as well.  I think there are definitely other aspects that play into their success but it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

 

I agree.  In this situation if Jack hustles back so hard that he can get to Faulk then he most likely leaves the trailing Hurricanes player (near the blue line) open and assuming Faulk is good enough he simply puts the pass back to that guy who then walk down the slot and takes his shot.

 

You can pick on his body posture, but here's what I recall.  He had been on the ice for the power play and had been out there for awhile.  The puck is now in his zone and he can't make a change.  He knows he's going to need the energy to get the puck out of the zone so if he has a slight opportunity to conserve energy he should take it.  That stance says, I'm gliding into the zone, in position, and conserving energy to get the puck back out so we can make a change.

 

There are times when Jack should be hustling and he wasn't, but I don't see this being one of them.

 

4:44 mark.

 

 

I'm surprised to read LTS defend what 15 did there. For crissakes, if he had given it just a little oomf, he could have contested the shot.

 

I understand that he'd been out there a while on the powerplay. On. The. Powerplay.

 

I love and want to love the guy, but that's a terrible look.

[Gramps]

TSN and NHl Network are absolutely tearing Eichel apart for his floating and attitude. Saying it's embarrassing, it's destroying this team, and he's a joke. They even have terms for it, Doing the Jack, and Circle Jacking.

 

IMO, it stems from Eichel being a man among boys up to and including college. Easy to take shifts or parts of shifts off when you're really good compared to everyone else. 

 

Work ethic needs to change and Housley should skate his a** off until he gets the message. 

[inkman]

You asked, I gave an opinion on it. Sports teams are more like units. When I served, you took pride in what you represented. The corporate world merely attempted to emulate what has been done in unit building.

I certainly didn't try to denigrate your post. Thank you for your service.

[Doohicksie]

That young core was brought up together and bonded while winning in the AHL IIRC too

Sounds like the JBot model.

[That Aud Smell]

TSN and NHl Network are absolutely tearing Eichel apart for his floating and attitude. Saying it's embarrassing, it's destroying this team, and he's a joke. They even have terms for it, Doing the Jack, and Circle Jacking.

 

Some of this is media-driven blather, but some of it is real, too.

 

Christian Pulisic had a pretty interesting post on ... whatever that thing is called. Players Tribune?

 

Anyway, one of the more interesting passages was him talking about how meaningful it was for him to go to Germany at age 16 and compete against other elite talents. He referenced how, in the U.S., soccer development is impeded because elite players become focal points of their team and much is done to make the game easy for them (so that they can finish). Pulisic talked about how going to Germany made him fight and scrap for every inch of field he could get, and that made him the player he is.

 

I didn't think it had much bearing on Eichel when I read it last week. Now? Maybe so.

[inkman]

I'm surprised to read LTS defend what 15 did there. For crissakes, if he had given it just a little oomf, he could have contested the shot.

 

I understand that he'd been out there a while on the powerplay. On. The. Powerplay.

 

I love and want to love the guy, but that's a terrible look.

Holy smokes was that unforgivable. Literally two strides and he breaks that play up. At worst he gets there just as Williams shoots and forces him to do it quicker than he would have liked.

[WildCard]

4:44 mark.

 

 

I'm surprised to read LTS defend what 15 did there. For crissakes, if he had given it just a little oomf, he could have contested the shot.

 

I understand that he'd been out there a while on the powerplay. On. The. Powerplay.

 

I love and want to love the guy, but that's a terrible look.

That is unbelievably pathetic