Phil Housley — what is this guy's deal?

[darksabre]

Good point. I also think it's a, foreseen by some but definitely dismissed by me, consequence of a tank

I think the tank did cause trauma. To what extent, who knows. But I think it did. 

[dudacek]

Does this Phil-osophy come from up top in Hockey Heaven? From the Lord himself? In 2011 Terry told the Buffalo News editorial board to its face that if they printed more positive stuff about the players, the players might respond.

 

I don't think ownership is forcing Phil to be something he's not, but I would be surprised if it never played a role in his hiring.

I think the Murray firing press conference made it pretty clear Pegula wanted to be the one who set the tone for the people in charge.

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think ownership is forcing Phil to be something he's not, but I would be surprised if it never played a role in his hiring.

I think the Murray firing press conference made it pretty clear Pegula wanted to be the one who set the tone for the people in charge.

 

Excellent post.

 

I can't read Harrington (doctor's orders), but I saw a Tweet indicating that he was chirping Housley for being more pollyannaish than positive in the face of the team's struggles. I understand that point, and would expect as much from that chinless hack.

 

But I also think there's much to be said for working to be positive, trusting the talent, and trying like hell to get to where you're going while maintaining your confidence. 

 

And, from what I can tell, "where they're going" does not feature low-risk, low-event, small-ice hockey. I hope they can get there.

 

As for the matter of confidence, I can't speak to how it affects the performance of pro athletes, but I do know that it plays an absolutely HUGE role in 16-18 year-olds who play their sports at a fairly high level. I just can't over-state how important confidence is in that setting. It's a necessary component of letting your talent shine and reaching for the proverbial brass ring every time you step on the field, etc.

[inkman]

Method to madness of Phil’s Dallas quote revealed?

“It’s hard to be positive. That’s the mental toughness you have to have, being positive when things are going tough and working through things.”‘ Evander Kane

 

Think this is Phil’s approach in a nutshell.

Pretty clear the head coach also wants to change the culture, he just thinks the issues are doubt and fragility, rather than effort and accountability.

Which make more sense in my book. I don't need 25 Matt Ellises out there with legs churning and elbows flapping to define effort when in fact they are accomplishing little. I want intelligent hockey plays which don't always look like a guy's going balls to the wall. That being said, there were instances last night where I had no idea what they were trying to accomplish.

[dudacek]

 

As for the matter of confidence, I can't speak to how it affects the performance of pro athletes, but I do know that it plays an absolutely HUGE role in 16-18 year-olds who play their sports at a fairly high level. I just can't over-state how important confidence is in that setting. It's a necessary component of letting your talent shine and reaching for the proverbial brass ring every time you step on the field, etc.

And how many of the Sabres key players aren’t much older than that?

[Stoner]

I don't think ownership is forcing Phil to be something he's not, but I would be surprised if it never played a role in his hiring.

I think the Murray firing press conference made it pretty clear Pegula wanted to be the one who set the tone for the people in charge.

That's what I was driving at.

Excellent post.

 

I can't read Harrington (doctor's orders), but I saw a Tweet indicating that he was chirping Housley for being more pollyannaish than positive in the face of the team's struggles. I understand that point, and would expect as much from that chinless hack.

 

But I also think there's much to be said for working to be positive, trusting the talent, and trying like hell to get to where you're going while maintaining your confidence. 

 

And, from what I can tell, "where they're going" does not feature low-risk, low-event, small-ice hockey. I hope they can get there.

 

As for the matter of confidence, I can't speak to how it affects the performance of pro athletes, but I do know that it plays an absolutely HUGE role in 16-18 year-olds who play their sports at a fairly high level. I just can't over-state how important confidence is in that setting. It's a necessary component of letting your talent shine and reaching for the proverbial brass ring every time you step on the field, etc.

You should read Mike's material before commenting, because today's piece actually reflected well on Housley. It was kind of a bait and switch piece. The first part laid out the idea that Phil is Pollyannaish, then the idea was floated — wait, but what if it was all a coaching ploy...?

Edited November 8, 2017 by PASabreFan

[That Aud Smell]

You should read Mike's material before commenting, because today's piece actually reflected well on Housley. It was kind of a bait and switch piece. The first part laid out the idea that Phil is Pollyannaish, then the idea

was floated — wait, but what if it was all a coaching ploy...?

Yeah, sorry. I can't. I won't. I've been through an entire evaluative process with that derp. I'm never going back.

[LGR4GM]

read the piece. I wonder about this because Housley consistently focuses on the positive. It is a risky strategy but not one that is wrong. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because it is starting to sound like it is working. The what did you did well that you can build off of approach versus the chicken little sky is falling approach. 

[darksabre]

read the piece. I wonder about this because Housley consistently focuses on the positive. It is a risky strategy but not one that is wrong. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because it is starting to sound like it is working. The what did you did well that you can build off of approach versus the chicken little sky is falling approach. 

You mean the coach shouldn't come out before every game and talk about how good the other team is, and then come out after every game and talk about how good the other team was? 

[dudacek]

You mean the coach shouldn't come out before every game and talk about how good the other team is, and then come out after every game and talk about how good the other team was?

 

Flashbacks. Aaargghhhh!!!!

[LGR4GM]

You mean the coach shouldn't come out before every game and talk about how good the other team is, and then come out after every game and talk about how good the other team was? 

No Disco Dan you shouldn't.  Have players mentioned how good the other team is this year?

[That Aud Smell]

read the piece. I wonder about this because Housley consistently focuses on the positive. It is a risky strategy but not one that is wrong. I will give him the benefit of the doubt because it is starting to sound like it is working. The what did you did well that you can build off of approach versus the chicken little sky is falling approach. 

 

Years ago, I read an entertaining and thought-provoking essay by a former marine mammal trainer (this was long before Blackfish and all the associated Seaworld shame) who talked about how, in training her animals, it was a best practice to use ONLY positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcements yielded little to no progress.

 

Then she extrapolated that into relationships in her life, including with her husband. And, to hear her tell it, it worked quite well.

 

It was more of a light touch on the subject, but it was something that stayed with me.

[LGR4GM]

It goes to choosing how to view a situation or outcome. You chose to view it neg or pos and you can with practice and time flip that around. Definitely hard to accomplish. 

[darksabre]

Years ago, I read an entertaining and thought-provoking essay by a former marine mammal trainer (this was long before Blackfish and all the associated Seaworld shame) who talked about how, in training her animals, it was a best practice to use ONLY positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcements yielded little to no progress.

 

Then she extrapolated that into relationships in her life, including with her husband. And, to hear her tell it, it worked quite well.

 

It was more of a light touch on the subject, but it was something that stayed with me.

Training dogs is kinda the same way right? You can't just yell at them or hit them to make them behave. You have to show them the difference in how their behaviors are responded to. Want your dog not to bark? Teach them a command that encourages them to bark and reward it. Then teach them the command for not barking and reward that. 

 

I think though, that for humans, the processing of guilt is probably a little more complex, which is why negative responses can in fact make a difference. Getting fired from a job for being a bum should definitely teach you a lesson if an employer has already been quite patient and positive with you. 

[LTS]

These players are generally their own worst critics.  They know if they mess up and hearing about it won't help the situation.  I think the coach does have to provide a viewpoint that doesn't harp on the negative and provides different viewpoints that emphasize good.

 

No one tunes out the sweet sounds of Mozart but if you had to listen to a dude banging a garbage can all day you'd become desensitized to it quickly.

[That Aud Smell]

Training dogs is kinda the same way right? You can't just yell at them or hit them to make them behave. You have to show them the difference in how their behaviors are responded to. Want your dog not to bark? Teach them a command that encourages them to bark and reward it. Then teach them the command for not barking and reward that. 

 

I think though, that for humans, the processing of guilt is probably a little more complex, which is why negative responses can in fact make a difference. Getting fired from a job for being a bum should definitely teach you a lesson if an employer has already been quite patient and positive with you. 

 

That's fair.

 

About losing a job, though, I'd characterize that more as a consequence of behavior, not part of an ongoing attempt to modify behavior or motivate someone. Taken slightly differently, would it work well to motivate or modify the behavior of a struggling employee if the supervisor continually said "You keep that up, and I'll fire you." Maybe. Maybe not.

[darksabre]

These players are generally their own worst critics.  They know if they mess up and hearing about it won't help the situation.  I think the coach does have to provide a viewpoint that doesn't harp on the negative and provides different viewpoints that emphasize good.

 

No one tunes out the sweet sounds of Mozart but if you had to listen to a dude banging a garbage can all day you'd become desensitized to it quickly.

I like this. 

[North Buffalo]

New generation , when I was young you got yelled and moved to do better. My son only moves when you take something away and then praise him when he does what he is suppose to do. Not saying old way wasnt harsh, but the new gen is too coodled.

[MattPie]

New generation , when I was young you got yelled and moved to do better. My son only moves when you take something away and then praise him when he does what he is suppose to do. Not saying old way wasnt harsh, but the new gen is too coodled.

 

FWIW, I'm 41 and yelling at me is a quick way to push me to not give a smurf as to what you want done. If you can't make your point without yelling you don't have a point.

Edited November 8, 2017 by MattPie

[Stoner]

Years ago, I read an entertaining and thought-provoking essay by a former marine mammal trainer (this was long before Blackfish and all the associated Seaworld shame) who talked about how, in training her animals, it was a best practice to use ONLY positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcements yielded little to no progress.

 

Then she extrapolated that into relationships in her life, including with her husband. And, to hear her tell it, it worked quite well.

 

It was more of a light touch on the subject, but it was something that stayed with me.

I feel bad for that bastard, her husband. But maybe he learned to like raw fish.

[That Aud Smell]

I feel bad for that bastard, her husband. But maybe he learned to like raw fish.

 

By Cod and holy mackerel, you're a funny man.

Edited November 8, 2017 by That Aud Smell

[North Buffalo]

FWIW, I'm 41 and yelling at me is a quick way to push me to not give a smurf as to what you want done. If you can't make your point without yelling you don't have a point.

. True, but if you keep doing the wrong this over and over again after being treated fairly I assume you arent listening anyway and a wake up call is in order.

[Doohicksie]

I think this thread is floundering.

[R_Dudley]

I feel bad for that bastard, her husband. But maybe he learned to like raw fish.

Hahahaha, best laugh of the day you curmudgeon you....

[DaveSnuggerud]

I live in Denver and the local version of WGR (The Fan) has the same voice over guy and the stations often sound the same, with the exception that NO ONE talks about hockey out here.  Anyway, the other night I heard voice over guy talking about the The Fan's hot take line, where listeners call in and leave a message with their thoughts about the Broncos (because that's all anyone talks about).  I realized that this is the same damn thing as GR's "Whiner Line" and it struck me how negative the entire Buffalo sports scene has become.  There are so many great reasons to be negative when talking about the Bills and Sabres - I get stuck in it myself.  When you think about Phil trying to stay positive and keep the players positive, despite the bad results, Mike Harringtons and booing fans, it sounds pretty foreign to most of us, but I do think it is the right approach.  We have to realize that we (the fans) are conditioned to expect crappy results, so we play into the negativity too.  This doesn't mean that we should all be unrealistic and Pollyanna about the team but maybe it is wise to zoom out, cool off, and give Phil some time to fumigate the stink of the last decade from the building.