Revisiting the TANK: Was it worth it?

[eman]

I appreciate this. 

 

I supported the tank, but the last couple weeks have changed my mind.  Our tank is complete, we have 0 elite players.  I'm not buying the "keep waiting".  Chicago - Kane was year 3, Pittsburgh - Crosby year 4.  Where are we, year 3 right and bottom of league?  Our tank failed.  Next, build a competitive team through the farm please.  Red Wings, Ducks, Devils, Rangers, Sharks, Preds. 

 

The bolded isn't true.

 

The funny thing about the "have to wait and see" approach with regards to coming talent, is that "the future" is perpetually "a few years away". We never have to actually be good, because it's always "all about the future". It was only a couple years ago after drafting Eichel that we were envisioning playoffs by 2017. Now it's another 3 years away. And so forth.

 

 

If we are talking strictly about current impact, Eichel doesn't sniff the top 40, never mind any of the options listed.

 

The tanking question is shades of grey. I don't believe tanking is objectively bad, but given who we had in charge at the time we decided to tank, and their ineptitude in terms of filling the spots created through tanking, whether through drafting or other forms of team building, it was the wrong decision for the Sabres at that time.

 

Our tank was a mistake. It didn't have to be. But it was.

Well posted Thorny. Seeing it too many times on these posts that we are still 3 or so many years away from being good. Time is wasting and Jack gets another 3 years older.

 

Don't think that Jack and his agent are going to stand for 3 more years of this either. If things don't start to look much better, they will start making noise about getting traded out of here. Some team may be more then willing to eat his contract if they figure they are close to a Cup and can acquire his skills to bring it home too.

 

jack is not cemented here. 

 

Is the tank mentality what caused Pat LaFontaine to quit? I always believed it was and that he wasn't on board with that strategy. I know GMTM  was his boy but I think Patty wanted to go the rebuild mode, not with a tank. Can anyone clarify this? I remember it was kind of shocking when he just up and left the organization.

[North Buffalo]

They brought Erie and McDavid to the arena for a game during the McEichel Sweepstakes!

Let's also remember that Sawyer and Black were Pittsburgh guys (and Benson had the Pens as a client) (and Terry lived there and was/is a Pens/Crosby fan), so deciding to tank shouldn't have come as a surprise. Buffalo always looks to Pittsburgh. The problem is, as d4rk has pointed out, the Sabres and Pens were not in comparable positions. The Pens didn't really tank, they just sucked. They also had pieces in place before Sid (Fleury, Malkin, solid veterans etc.).

I think to an extent you are right, but now if Sabres end up tanking they too have some pieces in place this year and two to three coming in Ghule, Middlestadt, Nylander and maybe one or two of the Euros... it may work out fine, just taking longer than some hoped.

[Sabre Dance]

Purposely tanking is like putting your airplane into a nosedive; the steeper the dive, the harder it is to pull out. I think that we are seeing now just how hard it is to shed the losing attitude.  If you can't pull out of the nosedive, the plane crashes.  Well, I think the Sabres are crashing right now. So, was the tank worth it?  So far the answer is a resounding "no". I'll check back in another 3 - 5 years to see how things are going. 

[PromoTheRobot]

No. The tank broke this team and the fan base.

[mjd1001]

Was the tank worth it?  It depends...for those who say it wasn't...what was the alternative....and how would that have turned out with the position the Sabres were in?

[bcsaberks]

No. The tank broke this team and the fan base.

Part 2 of this is a great point.  Been a fan for >20 years.  This season has been by far the most difficult.

[Robviously]

No. The tank broke this team and the fan base.

The Sabres had 81 points a year after tanking.  They've been regressing since then.

 

The Tank didn't break the Sabres.  Tim Murray's inept leadership broke the Sabres.

[Trettioåtta]

The Sabres had 81 points a year after tanking.  They've been regressing since then.

 

The Tank didn't break the Sabres.  Tim Murray's inept leadership broke the Sabres.

 

His abject failure in the draft did it. His main strength was apparently talent analysis (especially in the later rounds). Plus he seemed to love trading away picks.

[Taro T]

No.

Well stated.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Well stated.

 

There really isn't anything more to say at this point, right?

 

Good to see you.

[Taro T]

There really isn't anything more to say at this point, right?

 

Good to see you.

Correct. :lol:

 

Likewise.

[Marvelo]

The tank was planned for and executed with the idea that there were competent people in charge who could put together a good team after the dust settled. The people in charge kept changing like musical chairs. Confusion rules this organization. There weren't competent people then and there aren't any now. Nuclear winter is here.

[Iron Crotch]

To me the main problem with the tank wasn't the tank itself but the dearth of talent the club has drafted since 2010. Jake McCabe is the only 2nd rounder or lower that has played 50 games for the Sabres and he's more of a JAG than a difference maker. Jack E. for all his faults is the only guy we could legitimately say we hit it big with.

 

2010 Pysyk is a JAG and no-one else in that class and he's no longer here

2011 Armia is a JAG and no-one else in that class and he's no longer here

2012 Girgensons and McCabe..... JAGs but at least they're in the NHL

2013 Risto........ Bailey and Baptiste........ Risto hopefully becomes someone but the jury is still out on the BA boys

2014 Reinhart and no-one else

2015 Jack and we hope Guhle turns into someone

2016 Nylander, Asplund, Pu and Fitzgerald but no-one at this point is a sure thing

2017 Mittelstadt looks like a sure thing but who knows on the rest

 

Just a terrible waste of very good to decent draft slots the past few years. That's how we got here.

 

The best teams (e.g., Nashville where I had season tickets for the past 8 years) hit on some mid-round picks. The Sabres never do. IMHO, that is a killer. Especially, given Buffalo, NY is hardly a desirable location for free agents.

 

BTW - As I recall, there were no more than 5-or-10 of us on this board who were anti-tank back in the day.

[Weave]

The best teams (e.g., Nashville where I had season tickets for the past 8 years) hit on some mid-round picks. The Sabres never do. IMHO, that is a killer. Especially, given Buffalo, NY is hardly a desirable location for free agents.

 

BTW - As I recall, there were no more than 5-or-10 of us on this board who were anti-tank back in the day.

 

I can think of three.

[Taro T]

The best teams (e.g., Nashville where I had season tickets for the past 8 years) hit on some mid-round picks. The Sabres never do. IMHO, that is a killer. Especially, given Buffalo, NY is hardly a desirable location for free agents.

 

BTW - As I recall, there were no more than 5-or-10 of us on this board who were anti-tank back in the day.

By "back in the day" are you referring to a time prior to the Sabres having tanked or during the tank? There were MANY posters that were anti-tank before it was underway, but that understood that once they'd gotten rid of the players that were actual useful NHLers they needed to see it through and land McEichel.

 

There were very few DeLucas that called for the tank then bemoaned the fruits of it while it was ongoing.

[darksabre]

I can think of three.

You're including me in that list right?

[Neo]

I wasn’t pro tank before it started. I don’t even believe “resting starters” in NFL week seventeen treats fans ethically.

 

However, once it was on, I was very PRO TANK “successfully”. Carrion league daily, I’m sure.

 

The worst, of course, is tanking and failing at it ... ooops.

[Crusader1969]

His abject failure in the draft did it. His main strength was apparently talent analysis (especially in the later rounds). Plus he seemed to love trading away picks.

This is completely wrong. 2014 his first draft was a terrible draft pool, have a look at the guys drafted in the 2nd round and later and who did he miss on? Remember he wanted to trade all 3 2nd rounders to move up? He knew there weren't NHL players available past round 1. POint and Arvidsson are the only 2 guys drafted past the Rd 1 that have had any sort of impact in the NHL

 

It's too early to grade the 2015 & 2016 drafts though it looks good with Guhle, Pu, Asplund looking like sure fire NHLers drafted after round 1.

 

It's the 2008 to 2011 drafts that are the killers.

[Brawndo]

Missing on Brandon Montour was a huge miss, but even the Ducks passed on him once

[Marvelo]

This is completely wrong. 2014 his first draft was a terrible draft pool, have a look at the guys drafted in the 2nd round and later and who did he miss on? Remember he wanted to trade all 3 2nd rounders to move up? He knew there weren't NHL players available past round 1. POint and Arvidsson are the only 2 guys drafted past the Rd 1 that have had any sort of impact in the NHL

 

It's too early to grade the 2015 & 2016 drafts though it looks good with Guhle, Pu, Asplund looking like sure fire NHLers drafted after round 1.

 

It's the 2008 to 2011 drafts that are the killers.

 

I like Guhle and he's looking good but these other two are vastly over-rated. I'd be suprised if Asplund or Pu actually makes the team.

[Taro T]

This is completely wrong. 2014 his first draft was a terrible draft pool, have a look at the guys drafted in the 2nd round and later and who did he miss on? Remember he wanted to trade all 3 2nd rounders to move up? He knew there weren't NHL players available past round 1. POint and Arvidsson are the only 2 guys drafted past the Rd 1 that have had any sort of impact in the NHL

It's too early to grade the 2015 & 2016 drafts though it looks good with Guhle, Pu, Asplund looking like sure fire NHLers drafted after round 1.

It's the 2008 to 2011 drafts that are the killers.

Oddly enough the initial years of the "video scouting" era.

[Crusader1969]

I know PA will yell at me for this (for two reasons) and I don't feel good when I quote things posters have said from the past, because we've all said stupid or incorrect or out-of-context stuff and it's not really cool or relevant most the time, but I have to address this, because you were so adamant during the tank season about how right you were and that attitude is still prevalent here, even if our continuing suckage is making you push things down the road. 

 

Here are things you said during the tank, which were found in 5 minutes of skimming notable tank threads:

 

"If they don`t get McEichel I will predict another bottom 5-7 finish next year (70ish points). With McEichel they finish around 10-12th worst (high 70 possibly low 80s).

 

2016-17 with McEichel they finish over 90 points - ill say 50% chance they get 90 points without him.

 

In 3 years (2017-18) they finish above 90 and make the play-offs with or without McEichel."

 

Robviously: Would the Sabres be able to whiff on McDavid and Eichel (after two years of tanking, mind you) and still win the Cup?

Crusader: "Absolutely they can as this team will eventually have amazing depth and whomever they draft at 3 is going to be a high end top 6 player. I think the biggest difference will be next year because without McDavid or Eichel the team will be near the top of the draft in 2016 as well.

 

No matter how this plays out over the next few days - the Sabres will be playoff / cup contenders by 2017."

 

"Agreed - next year is the stepping stone. 75-85 points would be a great season for such a young team. 2016-17 season play-offs here we come. 

 

I hate line-ups that move Reinhart to the wing. I could see Girgensons moving to wing and being Dustin Brown 2.0.

If the Islanders go out in the 1st round - you better be sure you can sign O'Reilly to an extension. Giving up the 15-20th pick in this years draft plus another prospect for a 1 and done player seems like a steep price to pay.

 

Pysyks's health is a huge factor for this team (and for him obviously) next year - If healthy he will slot nicely into the 2nd pair D. I honestly could see Zadorov in the AHL for a year playing the #1 D role for the team. I could even see Reinhart in the AHL to start the season. Though if Reinhart plays like he did in the WJC he could pressure Eichel for the #1 Center spot.

 

Bottom Line - congrats to all Tankers and to all non-tankers - you are welcome cause you are about to be treated to the best decade in Sabres history."

 

We got the elite talent and just finished watching our sports teams lose 8 games in 11 days during what is widely held to be the worst period of time in Buffalo Sports History. The current suckage is almost 100% due to the decision to tank and its ramifications. Excuse us for not believing you that we just need to wait a couple more years, because when there was still light at the end of the tunnel it was obvious that we'd be good by 2017 apparently. There's no light at the end of the tunnel now like there was then. And we sit exactly where we sat then. 

But this was the only way. Just you wait and see in 3 years, and when that time comes, no wait, I meant 3 more after that. It's the only way even if real tanks can only be tied to about 5% of the cup wins in the past 3 decades.

I definitely got my time frame wrong, i shouldn't try to predict so far into the future but I still believe next year is the year we see them turn it around.

What I couldn't have predicted is that Murray would trade away so many draft picks that certainly has impacted their depth. Though, I won't say the trades were bad trades. We now just need to improve the depth and add some more talent - it will come.

. I also don't believe in culture of losing. The leafs have been losers forever but hire the right coach and a talented deep lineup changed that quick. I'm also hoping for a bottom of the league finish this year, since the playoffs are out of the question.

 

If you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, why are you still here? I'm still very optimistic about the Sabres future and I'm happy to wait 1 more season. If they don't improve next year when all the guys in Rochester are ready to move up, (plus Mittelstadt) then I'll gladly say I was wrong.

 

And yes I still believe we will see the best decade in Sabres history and Eichel (thanks to the Tank) will be the main piece that gets us there.

[darksabre]

Oddly enough the initial years of the "video scouting" era.

An unforgivable disaster.