GDT: Sabres VS Vancouver, 7 pm ET, 20/10/17

[dudacek]

The tank was always sold as short term pain for long term gain.

Chicago got Toews and Kane, Pittsburgh got Sid and Geno.

Four Hall of Famers.

 

Where's our long-term gain?

We got Jack. That's it.

That's not enough. Ask Tavares. Ask Hall. Ask McKinnon. Ekblad.

Ask Ovi.

[Tondas]

Nylander, Marner, and crew are good, but they're great because of Babcock. Give Babcock Reinhart, RoR, and our players. I'd bet my ###### nuts we're a top seed

 

Wade Phillips quote applies to Babcock.  "He can take his'n, and beat ur'in.  Then he can take ur'in and beat his'n."

[Claude Balls]

Nylander, Marner, and crew are good, but they're great because of Babcock. Give Babcock Reinhart, RoR, and our players. I'd bet my ###### nuts we're a top seed

I'm not so sure about this. He might get a better effort from them, but I still think the Toronto youngsters are far more superior than what the Sabres have. They seem to develop much quicker as well.

[Randall Flagg]

No, I'm not. People are just looking for a witch to burn and as usual, it goes back to something that happened 3 ###### years ago

He made those players special. I had a huge discussion about it in the Babcock vs Byslma thread. If I didn't have a flight at 6am, I'd dig it up

 

As it is, I'm done. Hopefully we win something while I'm gone.

Marner was one of the best OHL players not named McDavid in years, 2 full points per game. Nylander dominated the AHL at the equivalent of his brother's age, leading the entire league in points per game. They came into the league special, before they ever were coached by Babcock. Sam Reinhart didn't crack 70 points in 47 games during his post draft WHL season in a worse league. Okposo is 50-60 point forward turned 40 point forward. ROR is a good center. That's it. Kadri is a 30 goal 60 point ROR that actually can skate, JVR is Kane that actually has chemistry with stars and scores over 60 points. Their players are simply better. 

 

Speaking of, Matthews is getting all the press, but people should watch those games and watch Willy. He's at least 90-95% the player Matthews is. Sometimes he's as good, and sometimes he's better.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[apuszczalowski]

Who the hell sucks for years to build up a nice bottom 6? Any GM with a brain can find a nice bottom 6 in two seasons

They tanked the season. There is no way this is a debate

IIRC, they moved Kessel before the season and still had some veterans. They didn't sell off Phaneuf and a few others until the deadline when it was obvious they would end up closer to the bottom then a playoff spot. They didn't foninto that season with the goal of being the worst team in the league, they decided to tank when the season was already halfway over.

[Randall Flagg]

IIRC, they moved Kessel before the season and still had some veterans. They didn't sell off Phaneuf and a few others until the deadline when it was obvious they would end up closer to the bottom then a playoff spot. They didn't foninto that season with the goal of being the worst team in the league, they decided to tank when the season was already halfway over.

They talked the "short-term suffering" talk. They traded their best player before the season started. They let Garrett Sparks play as much as he wished. They tanked it, 100%. It was only one season and they were much more set up and had much smarter guys running it, though. 

 

Their fans had their Carrion threads from day 1.

[Claude Balls]

Marner was one of the best OHL players not named McDavid in years, 2 full points per game. Nylander dominated the AHL at the equivalent of his brother's age, leading the entire league in points per game. They came into the league special, before they ever were coached by Babcock. Sam Reinhart didn't crack 70 points in 47 games during his post draft WHL season in a worse league. Okposo is 50-60 point forward turned 40 point forward. ROR is a good center. That's it. Kadri is a 30 goal 60 point ROR that actually can skate, JVR is Kane that actually has chemistry with stars and scores over 60 points. Their players are simply better. 

 

Speaking of, Matthews is getting all the press, but people should watch those games and watch Willy. He's at least 90-95% the player Matthews is. Sometimes he's as good, and sometimes he's better.

This is pretty much spot on

[That Aud Smell]

It’s a difficult situation . It is not possible to trade players who are not playing well and get fair value. Some at this point may need sit and watch and ponder their careers

Wise words.

 

A fire sale would be counter productive.

Marner was one of the best OHL players not named McDavid in years, 2 full points per game. Nylander dominated the AHL at the equivalent of his brother's age, leading the entire league in points per game. They came into the league special, before they ever were coached by Babcock. Sam Reinhart didn't crack 70 points in 47 games during his post draft WHL season in a worse league. Okposo is 50-60 point forward turned 40 point forward. ROR is a good center. That's it. Kadri is a 30 goal 60 point ROR that actually can skate, JVR is Kane that actually has chemistry with stars and scores over 60 points. Their players are simply better.

 

Speaking of, Matthews is getting all the press, but people should watch those games and watch Willy. He's at least 90-95% the player Matthews is. Sometimes he's as good, and sometimes he's better.

Good post.

 

But in re Reinhart’s post draft WHL season: It was widely discussed how he was intentionally sacrificing production for development and NHL readiness.

 

Even so: He looked like a do nothing ho hum out there tonight.

[apuszczalowski]

They talked the "short-term suffering" talk. They traded their best player before the season started. They let Garrett Sparks play as much as he wished. They tanked it, 100%. It was only one season and they were much more set up and had much smarter guys running it, though. 

Their fans had their Carrion threads from day 1.

weren't they playing sparks cause their starter was injured and he came up and impressed in his first game. They purged at the deadline and went tank then. They were talking about retooling/rebuilding before, but they didn't walk into the season with the expectations of being the worst for the #1 pick like Buffalo did.

 

I watched many of their games and know a lot of their fans, many wanted a tank, but the front office didn't go tank until deep in the season.

[Claude Balls]

WGR post game fb headline

 

"Canucks stun Sabres 4-2"

 

Really, who is actually stunned? I sure as hell am not. I'll be stunned when the Sabres win two games in a row and look good doing it.

[millbank]

http://nationalpost.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-management-supergroup-has-the-ship-pointed-in-the-right-direction/amp

This article spells out the Toronto blue print and why they have improved from the mess they have been

[Randall Flagg]

weren't they playing sparks cause their starter was injured and he came up and impressed in his first game. They purged at the deadline and went tank then. They were talking about retooling/rebuilding before, but they didn't walk into the season with the expectations of being the worst for the #1 pick like Buffalo did.

 

I watched many of their games and know a lot of their fans, many wanted a tank, but the front office didn't go tank until deep in the season.

I dunno man, their entire board talked about their tank from the second Bab's press conference ended. They had a separate GDT for tankers and for guys just watching the game, every single game, IIRC. They knew what was up. The team iced a bunch of guys like Parenteau, Spaling, Arcobello, Holland, Winnik, Laich, guys that they immediately kicked to the curb and didn't bring back as soon as they were ready to actually be good. 

 

It wasn't as full-fledged as ours, but the Toronto Maple Leafs had no interest in winning hockey games. Nobody will admit to a tank, but I've only ever heard two teams talk before the season about short term suffering for long-term gain. And it was two teams that tanked. 

[pastajoe]

The tank was always sold as short term pain for long term gain.

Chicago got Toews and Kane, Pittsburgh got Sid and Geno.

Four Hall of Famers.

 

Where's our long-term gain?

We got Jack. That's it.

That's not enough. Ask Tavares. Ask Hall. Ask McKinnon. Ekblad.

Ask ###### Ovi.

Those teams were lucky to be bad when there were such good players in those years, and they got the 1st pick. Middelstadt may be the complementary star to Eichel.

[TrueBlueGED]

We're not where we are because of the tank, we're where we are because our drafting hasn't produced any unexpected hits that all good teams get. We could have done a soft rebuild and easily be in the same exact spot, minus Jack.

[Randall Flagg]

The worst part is that when I moved out here, I knew I was going to have very little free time, so I vowed that this would be my only hobby. I have enough time for Sabres hockey so long as it is the only thing that gets my free time. 

So now on a day where I can truly relax for the first time in two months, I'm sitting here staring at a wall wanting to hit my head on it, and I can't turn on cable and watch a show or a movie, and i can't play a video game, any of the mind-numbing stuff I used to rely on, because I didn't/couldn't invest any time and money into that stuff, because I chose the Sabres.

 

I could be more like Martha.

 

[spndnchz]

I feel like Edmonton 3 yrs ago.

[SabresBillsFan]

Toronto appears to be the exception of tanks, not the norm.

 

The fact that Terry signed off on it in the first place might indicate how bad of an idea it was.

 

I wish we hadn't done it.

It also helps when you have Babcock, Shanahan and Lou.

[grinreaper]

It wasn't that long ago that people were posting here that we needed to have patience at the beginning of the season and expect that by mid season the team would come together. It looks like there is a lack of effort but my bet is that it is more to do with being tentative because the new system isn't second nature yet. On a side note though, did anyone else notice that Jack didn't seem all that excited after scoring that highlight reel goal?

[SabresBillsFan]

It wasn't that long ago that people were posting here that we needed to have patience at the beginning of the season and expect that by mid season the team would come together. It looks like there is a lack of effort but my bet is that it is more to do with being tentative because the new system isn't second nature yet. On a side note though, did anyone else notice that Jack didn't seem all that excited after scoring that highlight reel goal?

I noticed in Anaheim, Vegas and tonight. It’s like that guy in pickup hockey that knows he can dominate when he wants but instead of turning it on and upping his game he actually lowers his game by just moving the puck and not really putting forth any serious effort.

[calti]

Too many depth players aren't good.

The core might not be good enough.

And I am too old to invest any more time in praying for the pipeline.

 

 

I decided to step away from the Bills because they were responsible for too much negative energy in my life.

Haven't regretted it.

Maybe I need to think about investing less time in the Sabres.

you paid your dues. step away from both of them then step back in when you want. --altho I love our new bills coach .

I see lack of effort on our hockey team.Thats the worst thing. They are lethargic and weak minded. 

[Sabel79]

Another bad game (that I just got done watching on delay). Other than Jack’s goal, Duffer and Dunlevy’s Tragically Hip reference contest was the most entertaining part of the game.

 

That Sabres are bad. Scary bad.

 

Of course, it could be worse. We could be Montreal...

[SabresBillsFan]

Another bad game (that I just got done watching on delay). Other than Jack’s goal, Duffer and Dunlevy’s Tragically Hip reference contest was the most entertaining part of the game.

 

That Sabres are bad. Scary bad.

 

Of course, it could be worse. We could be Montreal...

I don’t think they are that bad. If the effort was there and we were still losing I would say they are scary bad. But when you know they can bring more than what they our showing that is what is upsetting. I’m not sure if they don’t like Housley system or what.

[MODO Hockey]

Soooo..

I was sitting here ready to post my "so fkn ready"-vid when my power goes out (!!!!!) And OFCOURSE we lose on top of that, SIGH :wallbash:

[Pokey Jones]

We're not where we are because of the tank, we're where we are because our drafting hasn't produced any unexpected hits that all good teams get. We could have done a soft rebuild and easily be in the same exact spot, minus Jack.

Truth.

 

Edmonton did a really bad job for years and wasted picks but then they lucked into winning that lottery. They still have issues though. Their D isn't all that good and their goaltending is spotty this year and they will have big cap problems really soon. That Lucic contract will kill them (among others).

 

Toronto has a small window before the cap gets them too but they have simply drafted better in the last few years. Matthews took them over the top rather than being the guy they all relied on (Eichel). Eichel isn't Matthews, he isn't McDavid, he isn't Crosby, but he is a really good hockey player. He's just not a guy who can do it alone.

 

Murray wasted picks and drafted poorly. The cupboard is bare. You can see guys like Bailey looked like they'd be great picks - big guy but fast, has all the tools etc. but he just isn't quite there. (as an example). maybe on a good team he could be coached into being a good role player but if he is the best we have to come we are in trouble.

 

I think you guys put way too much on a coach - Babcock. Coaches are like goalies, Easy to blame and easy to credit when the team plays well. They can make improvements, but the players still have to be there and they still have to play. Housley is in a bad situation. Babcock has enough talent he can move Marner to the 4th line if he doesn't listen or play hard. What's Housley gonna do? Who can he sit or demote and who can take the place, the roster is too thin as is. 

 

I don't know enough about Jack, but what are his work habits? His desire? I know they make a thing about Matthews learning, studying, trying to be the best and improve like he has a chip on his shoulder. That sort of attitude filters down. Does Jack do that? Or is he a talented kid who relies on his talent and thinks he is already good enough? I don't know the answer to that, but if its the latter, there's your biggest problem.

 

They all seem just a little too content with losing. 

[Jsixspd]

I jumped out for a couple games -  disgusted with what I saw.   During that span, a win, and an OTL. 


This is a BAD start to a season.  Terry Pegula took a +.500 team that frequently made the postseason, and turned it into perennial bottom dwellers.  There doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. 

Yeah, they're still learning the new system and each other  - that must be it.  Uh-huh!    So how does a brand new team like Vegas end up 5-1?   And beat the Sabres?  They don't seem to be having any trouble 'learning the new system'   Tired excuse is tired.  

22 total shots on goal - and tellingly, only 9 in the 3rd period;   not much of an effort to try to even up the score, was it?  



After almost 7 years of Pegula's  hand on the helm, just waiting for the Sabres to hit .500   - that would make me happy - forget about playoffs, just .500