GDT: Sabres VS Vancouver, 7 pm ET, 20/10/17

[dudacek]

It was not the logical consequence of a tank. Look at Toronto

Charlie, Toronto didn't do what we did.

They were a long-term bad team headed for a bad year that did what they could to maximize that bad year.

We deliberately stripped the organization of every single NHL asset that we had over the course of two full seasons for a hill of magic beans. They don't always sprout.

 

And I didn't say the logical consequence, I said a logical consequence.

For every Leafs there is a Panthers.

 

Or a team like Boston that pulls Bergeron and Krecji and Lucic and Marchand out of their hats.

Then seems to do it again with McAvoy, Carlo and Pasternak.

Edited October 21, 2017 by dudacek

[Tondas]

He was pretty clearly Darcy's co-GM. And he was dumb enough to brag about it. After that, who knows? I suspect he's focusing his incredible sports intellect on his real big fish, the Bills. That's good news for the Sabres. Or should be.

 

My gut says other GMs will chuckle at the idea that these guys are "names." Also, they'll smell blood in the water fo sho.

 

Rhino for sure.  There were a couple of threads this summer debating whether to trade Kane and/or Rhino.  Kane is a proven commodity (and will be gold at the trade deadline).  Rhino is a different story.  Before this year, he may have been a "name" player, but not anymore.  Waited too long to sell that asset,

[WildCard]

Charlie, Toronto didn't do what we did.

They were a long-term bad team headed for a bad year that did what they could to maximize that bad year.

We deliberately stripped the organization of every single NHL asset that we had over the course of two full seasons for a hill of magic beans.

 

And I didn't say the logical consequence, I said a logical consequence.

For every Leafs there is a Panthers.

 

Or a team like Boston that pulls Bergeron and Krecji and Lucic and Marchand out of their hats.

Then seems to do it again with McAvoy, Carlo and Pasternak.

So we cut out 6 years of misery to start the tank already unlike they did. That's bad? 

Edited October 21, 2017 by WildCard

[Randall Flagg]

It's a crime that Jack scored THAT goal and we can't talk about it because of the state of this franchise. 

Imagine that goal if we're 6-2 and firing on all cylinders. Imagine how happy we'd be.

 

I have no idea why that kid hoped we'd lose the lottery.

[apuszczalowski]

A-la we're Edmonton before McDavid

I don't know. Edmonton had a lot of young better talent, but it was all in the same position (forward) McDavid allowed them to move some of the extra talent to fill some holes, and they finally hit on a bigger missing piece, goaltender, last year.

 

Outside of Eichel and Sam are not comparables to the top picks that Edmonton had before McDavid.

[Iron Crotch]

This is so far beyond the realm of the tank. This is about depth too. About scouting and drafting and development, something this team hasn't managed to do since the guys it drafted in like...2000. We've developed so little talent that we've been looking elsewhere for help for what feels like a decade.

 

Look at our depth right now. Who is ready? Who is coming? And when?

 

 

We have no depth other than a couple of wingers who might make good 2nd-4th line NHLers. GMTM had picks all over the place, but he squandered a lot of them away in trades.

 

Counterfactual exercise: would we be better off right now minus ROR but with JT Compher and Nikita Zadorov on the roster? (both getting regular minutes for the Avs)

[Randall Flagg]

We have no depth other than a couple of wingers who might make good 2nd-4th line NHLers. GMTM had picks all over the place, but he squandered a lot of them away in trades.

 

Counterfactual exercise: would we be better off right now minus ROR but with JT Compher and Nikita Zadorov on the roster? (both getting regular minutes for the Avs)

This ROR? Maybe but Zadorov does not look like a good hockey player very often to me.

[nfreeman]

Tanked the right way? They got won their lottery and got the best coach in hockey

 

AND tanking gives you the best chance at winning the lottery AND McDavid was available AND landing the coach has nothing to do with tanking

 

It doesn't matter that tanking gives you "the best chance" of winning the lottery.  It's still only a 20% chance!  It doesn't matter that everyone else has less than 20% -- it only matters that you are 80% likely to lose.

 

The Leafs getting Babcock has everything to do with the Leafs being a good team now, which is why you cited them as an example of a successful tank.

 

 

For every Leafs there is a are 10 teams like the Panthers.

 

 

Fixed.

[WildCard]

I don't know. Edmonton had a lot of young better talent, but it was all in the same position (forward) McDavid allowed them to move some of the extra talent to fill some holes, and they finally hit on a bigger missing piece, goaltender, last year.

 

Outside of Eichel and Sam are not comparables to the top picks that Edmonton had before McDavid.

RoR and Kane are better than Eberle and RNH. They, like us, were/are at team with high end pieces, no depth, no leadership, and stuck in losing

[Claude Balls]

Tanked the right way? They got won their lottery and got the best coach in hockey

 

 

AND tanking gives you the best chance at winning the lottery AND McDavid was available AND landing the coach has nothing to do with tanking

They also brought in Shanahan to run the show. Buffalo let GMTM drive the bus. Look at all the players Toronto drafted without winning the lottery.

[thewookie1]

Charlie, Toronto didn't do what we did.

They were a long-term bad team headed for a bad year that did what they could to maximize that bad year.

We deliberately stripped the organization of every single NHL asset that we had over the course of two full seasons for a hill of magic beans. They don't always sprout.

 

And I didn't say the logical consequence, I said a logical consequence.

For every Leafs there is a Panthers.

 

Or a team like Boston that pulls Bergeron and Krecji and Lucic and Marchand out of their hats.

Then seems to do it again with McAvoy, Carlo and Pasternak.

 

The problem we never do, we never get that proverbial rabbit. We get weak rabbits, injury prone rabbits, head case rabbits, but almost never a reason to trust that we'd have escaped the hell that is 9th/10th. The problem is we only traded that for 15th/16th. Either way we are ######. 

[dudacek]

I've been a fan for more than 40 years.

 

Three of the five most painful seasons have been in the past four years. We look poised to make that four.

Every full year Terry has been would qualify for among the 10 worst.

[darksabre]

We have no depth other than a couple of wingers who might make good 2nd-4th line NHLers. GMTM had picks all over the place, but he squandered a lot of them away in trades.

 

Counterfactual exercise: would we be better off right now minus ROR but with JT Compher and Nikita Zadorov on the roster? (both getting regular minutes for the Avs)

To the former: GMTM wasn't even here long enough to see his picks pan out, so I struggle to blame that on him. Darcy was so bad at drafting and we're still paying for it.

 

To the latter: I'm not interested in Compher and Zadorov. We still won that trade.

[3putt]

this team doesn't need more unknowns with potential. They have plenty of that. They need guys who can come in and be upgrades now. No more picks and prospects. For every name you listed, you can prob a my name 2 young players/prospects that had potential and did nothing.

That is exactly what we need. We have too many knowns whomare has beens or never weres. Where is the potential? Poulliot? Moulson? Pommers? Not difference makers. Passengers.

[WildCard]

It doesn't matter that tanking gives you "the best chance" of winning the lottery.  It's still only a 20% chance!  It doesn't matter that everyone else has less than 20% -- it only matters that you are 80% likely to lose.

 

The Leafs getting Babcock has everything to do with the Leafs being a good team now, which is why you cited them as an example of a successful tank.

Back then it was the best chance and at worst drafting 2nd. There was and will never be a better year to tank than we did

 

I didn't say Babcock wasn't due to their success. I'm saying the tank did not bring them him. Take him away and keep their tank, they still have Matthews, and are right here with us. Don't blame a tank because the best coach choose somewhere else 

[Huckleberry]

It was not the logical consequence of a tank. Look at Toronto

 

Toronto was sucking for years and build up a nice bottom 6 for it.   big difference.

[3putt]

RoR and Kane are better than Eberle and RNH. They, like us, were/are at team with high end pieces, no depth, no leadership, and stuck in losing

No they are not. Your dreaming.

[WildCard]

They also brought in Shanahan to run the show. Buffalo let GMTM drive the bus. Look at all the players Toronto drafted without winning the lottery.

Nylander, Marner, and crew are good, but they're great because of Babcock. Give Babcock Reinhart, RoR, and our players. I'd bet my nuts we're a top seed

[apuszczalowski]

Toronto was in the wilderness for 11 freaking years AND they won the lottery AND it was in a year in which a great player was available AND they landed the best coach in the last generation.

 

That is not a #blueprint.

yeah, they didnt really tank the season, they went in trting to be competitive, then started dumping their top veterans. Then they picked up one of the better executives to overaee things and the best coach available. Alot of their can be credited based more on luck then a plan. Buffalo went in with tanking being a key to the plan and it failed as they ended up with the consolation prize.

[Randall Flagg]

No they are not. Your dreaming.

RNH is a 30-40 point player right now I'm pretty sure

[WildCard]

Toronto was sucking for years and build up a nice bottom 6 for it.   big difference.

Who the hell sucks for years to build up a nice bottom 6? Any GM with a brain can find a nice bottom 6 in two seasons

yeah, they didnt really tank the season, they went in trting to be competitive, then started dumping their top veterans. Then they picked up one of the better executives to overaee things and the best coach available. Alot of their can be credited based more on luck then a plan. Buffalo went in with tanking being a key to the plan and it failed as they ended up with the consolation prize.

They tanked the season. There is no way this is a debate

[Stoner]

I've been a fan for more than 40 years.

 

Three of the five most painful seasons have been in the past four years. We look poised to make that four.

Every full year Terry has been would qualify for among the 10 worst.

[Randall Flagg]

Nylander, Marner, and crew are good, but they're great because of Babcock. Give Babcock Reinhart, RoR, and our players. I'd bet my ###### nuts we're a top seed

Nah. Toronto's forward group is special. 

 

Babcock's last what, 8 years in Detroit? Were good. He had some good players. But they weren't like this.

 

Toronto's forwards are going to have them averaging 5 goals a game into Thanksgiving.

[WildCard]

No they are not. Your dreaming.

No, I'm not. People are just looking for a witch to burn and as usual, it goes back to something that happened 3 years ago

Nah. Toronto's forward group is special. 

 

Babcock's last what, 8 years in Detroit? Were good. He had some good players. But they weren't like this.

 

Toronto's forwards are going to have them averaging 5 goals a game into Thanksgiving.

He made those players special. I had a huge discussion about it in the Babcock vs Byslma thread. If I didn't have a flight at 6am, I'd dig it up

 

As it is, I'm done. Hopefully we win something while I'm gone.

[Tondas]

I've been a fan for more than 40 years.

 

Three of the five most painful seasons have been in the past four years. We look poised to make that four.

Every full year Terry has been would qualify for among the 10 worst.

 

Me too.  Actually from the beginning. in 1970  I was a STH in the mid 80's when they were terrible as well (but not this bad).  Coincidentally, Housley was on the team during that time.