So what is Jbot’s plan for the Sabres?

[Doohicksie]

I’ve said that for two years. However, depth can be acquired in other ways. How many solid value signings have we had in the last 5 years that actually enhanced the team. Jbot signed Pouliot, Josefson and acquired Nolan to add to depth and hopefully out play their modest contract cost. Who were TM’s similar signings? Franson? Grant?

 

Falk.  Fedun.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Falk.  Fedun.

They were intended for the AHL, but yes both worked out to a certain extent. I’m talking about NHL players so that we don’t have to hope AAAA players like Falk, Fedun, Tennyson etc.. work out.

[Pokey Jones]

"Sam at top form" - what is that? Where is that? Is that anything? 

 

I'm tired of Sam and Jack being mentioned together as if they were pillars to build off of. It's more than obvious that those two are light years apart. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

BTW:  is anyone else having a weird glitch with this thread? 

 

Every time I click on the star to the left of the thread title (i.e. the "new post" indicator), I get a "cannot open this page" screen.

 

It only happens for this thread, and I'm able to click on the last page of the thread and scroll down, but it's pretty weird.

 

I only use the 'View New Content' button top right.  It is your friend.

[Doohicksie]

They were intended for the AHL, but yes both worked out to a certain extent. I’m talking about NHL players so that we don’t have to hope AAAA players like Falk, Fedun, Tennyson etc.. work out.

 

You were talking about depth.  That's AAAA.

[GASabresIUFAN]

You were talking about depth.  That's AAAA.

Not necessarily.  I'm talking about getting established NHL players who get by passed on the first few days of FA frenzy.  Like our deal for Pouliot or Vanek's deal this year with Van or Sam Gagner last year with Columbus.  I've been hoping the Sabres would sign Kyle Quincey for a 3rd pairing role for the last 2 years.  He has signed for 1.25 each of the last 2 years.  

[Pokey Jones]

No, you definitely build a good team via the draft especially in a salary cap era. Free agents should only be for short term hole filling. High profile free agents are almost always over priced and you lose in the long run with only a handful of exceptions to that rule. Build through the draft. You fail in the draft and you fail, and you become exceptional if you score in the later rounds of drafts. 

 

Exceptions to this rule (Hasek for example) are very rare.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No, you definitely build a good team via the draft especially in a salary cap era. Free agents should only be for short term hole filling. High profile free agents are almost always over priced and you lose in the long run with only a handful of exceptions to that rule. Build through the draft. You fail in the draft and you fail, and you become exceptional if you score in the later rounds of drafts. 

 

Exceptions to this rule (Hasek for example) are very rare.  

 

Hasek was not signed in FA.  He was a nobody when he was traded for.

[Taro T]

Hasek was not signed in FA.  He was a nobody when he was traded for.

He wasn't a nobody. He'd been the best goalie in the 3rd best league in the world for over 1/2 a decade. Not his fault the Berlin Wall didn't fall until it did.

 

Also, not his fault that Keenan was the antithesis of a goalie whisperer & that Muckler had no idea what he'd lucked into. Had either not been blinded by his unorthodox style either Chicago doesn't have to wait until Toews-Kane come along to hold a parade or Buffalo probably hosts one in '93.

[Drunkard]

I believe we’re looking at several years at a minimum. We may not compete until 2020. There aren’t player acquisition or system overhauls that will turn any terrible group into a good group. I think you find talent early, develop it, and deploy it when it’s ready. That talent develops alongside other talent that developed the same way in an earlier cycle. Detroit, Pittsburgh, St Louis for decades, and so on.

 

A large risk is the unknown ability of TP, JB and PH. I’m encouraged that TP may have learned that “trust the process” beats “make a splash” over at One Bills Drive. I’m encouraged by JB’s Pittsburgh upbringing.

 

The Tank gutted this team; hands, feet, heart and soul. It had an impact on Rochester and concession vendors. Jack Eichel is an excellent hockey player. The price was too dear. We iced an expansion team in 2015.

 

Draft talent into a sound structure and let it grow.

 

Trust the Process. The bad news about this approach is that it takes time to work. The good news is that it sticks around after it starts producing.

 

If this team isn't going to be ready to seriously compete until 2020 then they need to start selling some assets now. That means we should go ahead and trade Kane, Pominville, Lehner, and Scandella (with salary retained if necessary to up their values) along with O'Reilly and Okposo (although I wouldn't retain on any of these deals since they are signed for too long and you can only retain on two contracts at a time so we'd lose flexibility).

 

It also means we might as well keep our cap anchors (Moulson, Gorges, and Bogosian) because we'll need to find a way to get to the cap floor after we jettison everyone over the age of 26 that has any sort of value whatsoever.

 

We should also quit jerking Reinhart around and just leave him at center, until he absolutely proves he sucks at it. When he hits that point put him back on Eichel's wing to recoup his production, build up his value, and then sell him off if there's a good offer. If there's no good offer bridge him repeatedly until he's a UFA and trade him at whatever deadline before you're forced to pay him real money.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Drunkard

[LGR4GM]

If this team isn't going to be ready to seriously compete until 2020 then they need to start selling some assets now. That means we should go ahead and trade Kane, Pominville, Lehner, and Scandella (with salary retained if necessary to up their values) along with O'Reilly and Okposo (although I wouldn't retain on any of these deals since they are signed for too long and you can only retain on two contracts at a time so we'd lose flexibility).

 

It also means we might as well keep our cap anchors (Moulson, Gorges, and Bogosian) because we'll need to find a way to get to the cap floor after we jettison everyone over the age of 26 that has any sort of value whatsoever.

 

We should also quit jerking Reinhart around and just leave him at center, until he absolutely proves he sucks at it. When he hits that point put him back on Eichel's wing to recoup his production, build up his value, and then sell him off if there's a good offer. If there's no good offer bridge him repeatedly until he's a UFA and trade him at whatever deadline before you're forced to pay him real money.

No no no. You don't trade those assets even if you won't compete for 2-3 years. You trade those assets and it forces guys from rochester up who are not ready.. You can't keep doing that. 

[LTS]

Right now I only see Kane as being traded.

 

The longer he goes without a deal the more likely he is to be a late season trade.  I can see reasons for playing him with Jack right now.  It wouldn't be the first time a player is tied to a point producer to up his perceived value.

 

If the eventual heir apparent to Eichel's wing is Nylander then perhaps he ends up getting the call when they move Kane.  I could also see them moving Reinhart there.

 

Perhaps the 1 game Girgensons experiment was to see if there was a fit with Eichel before they pull the trigger on a Kane trade.  Then Girgensons gets hurt and they have to hold off on the trade because they need the bodies.

 

Frankly I see them trading Kane for a solid 2-3 D player at this point.  He's the path to better D and the better he performs the better that D asset is going to be.

[Drunkard]

No no no. You don't trade those assets even if you won't compete for 2-3 years. You trade those assets and it forces guys from rochester up who are not ready.. You can't keep doing that. 

 

Not necessarily. You just have to sign a bunch of aging vets and AHL/NHL tweeners to take their spots. The important thing is to make sure they are only signed to 1 year deals which shouldn't be hard when you consider that most of them should consider themselves lucky to even get offered an NHL contract to begin with. Cody Franson on a 1 year $5 million contract type deals.

 

That being said, I wouldn't do it either, but that's because I think the team will improve sooner than the 3 year waiting period that Neo proposed. In fact, we'll be awesome as soon as Casey Mittelstadt decides to grace us with him presence.

[LGR4GM]

Not necessarily. You just have to sign a bunch of aging vets and AHL/NHL tweeners to take their spots. The important thing is to make sure they are only signed to 1 year deals which shouldn't be hard when you consider that most of them should consider themselves lucky to even get offered an NHL contract to begin with. Cody Franson on a 1 year $5 million contract type deals.

 

That being said, I wouldn't do it either, but that's because I think the team will improve sooner than the 3 year waiting period that Neo proposed. In fact, we'll be awesome as soon as Casey Mittelstadt decides to grace us with him presence.

Yes but you give contracts to garbage players and it forces your 20 year olds to be leaders with no help and that is just a recipe for disaster. 

 

I think that Casey will be noticeable once he is here but his first year will be up and down. Someone bookmark this. He is going to have a 30-40pt season if he joins the team at 19.  If he joins at 20, no idea how good he could be. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by LGR4GM

[Drunkard]

Yes but you give contracts to garbage players and it forces your 20 year olds to be leaders with no help and that is just a recipe for disaster. 

 

I think that Casey will be noticeable once he is here but his first year will be up and down. Someone bookmark this. He is going to have a 30-40pt season if he joins the team at 19.  If he joins at 20, no idea how good he could be. 

 

The only way Mittelstadt has a 30-40 point season is if he signs after his college season is over and he only plays 10 or 12 games until the end of the year to get those 40 points.

[LGR4GM]

The only way Mittelstadt has a 30-40 point season is if he signs after his college season is over and he only plays 10 or 12 games until the end of the year to get those 40 points.

So he gets 30 points in 10 games.... I'd poop my pants if that transpired. 

[LTS]

So he gets 30 points in 10 games.... I'd poop my pants if that transpired. 

 

I'd poop your pants too.  :)

[North Buffalo]

So he gets 30 points in 10 games.... I'd poop my pants if that transpired.

 

But he is Middlestadt... you doubt the Stadt?!

[Drunkard]

So he gets 30 points in 10 games.... I'd poop my pants if that transpired. 

 

Yes, sir. He'll probably only be playing at half speed to rack up those points as well. He won't want to show up the rest of the team, because he has too much character for that. After a season or two the league will probably force him to play in a sled just to make it fair to other teams. At that point we'll have to settle for something close to 2 or 2.5 points per game from him.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So he gets 30 points in 10 games.... I'd poop my pants if that transpired. 

 

You did note who made that post, right?

 

I'm surprised our drunk Stadt man didn't suggest 100 points.

[Drunkard]

You did note who made that post, right?

 

I'm surprised our drunk Stadt man didn't suggest 100 points.

 

If worshipping at the altar of Casey Mittelstadt is wrong, then I don't want to be right. He'll need to play a few more than a dozen games to crack the century mark though. Then again, all the NCAA teams could just forfeit their playoffs games against Minnesota in order to avoid the embarrassment of being completely outclassed by him though, allowing him to play the 30 or so games he'd need to break the 100 point mark. They MAY be smart enough to do it. They are institutes of higher learning after all.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Drunkard

[Pokey Jones]

Poor Casey Mittelstadt..........expectations are just way out of reality but back to Kane, I just don't trust him so it ain't worth the risk. Not to mention I don't see how they make the numbers work until they have some of those overpaid contracts run their course cause trading them will be difficult to impossible. If you could somehow move Moulson and Okposo off the roster then maybe, but otherwise its not workable long term. 

[Crusader1969]

Poor Casey Mittelstadt..........expectations are just way out of reality but back to Kane, I just don't trust him so it ain't worth the risk. Not to mention I don't see how they make the numbers work until they have some of those overpaid contracts run their course cause trading them will be difficult to impossible. If you could somehow move Moulson and Okposo off the roster then maybe, but otherwise its not workable long term. 

 

 

what the numbers you expect on Kane?

[Drunkard]

Poor Casey Mittelstadt..........expectations are just way out of reality but back to Kane, I just don't trust him so it ain't worth the risk. Not to mention I don't see how they make the numbers work until they have some of those overpaid contracts run their course cause trading them will be difficult to impossible. If you could somehow move Moulson and Okposo off the roster then maybe, but otherwise its not workable long term. 

 

So we should going into next season with our best winger being a 35 year old Jason Pominville with 1 year left on his deal. That's a recipe for success if I ever saw one!

Edited October 23, 2017 by Drunkard

[Thorner]

Priority needs to be to sign Kane. He's technically leading our team in scoring, and is one of our best players, who scores goals. I'm sure Botterill will attempt firstly to sign Kane, if he can get him at what he feels is a fair price.

 

That's a big "if" though. So failing that, he'll probably look to trade him.