WTF is wrong with this team?

[North Buffalo]

I am over 50 and have been waiting.  Still think this team is lacking help on offense for Jack.  They need scorers... hopefully Middlestadt and Nylander step up next year.  I mind that the team is playing like shiite, but at least if they continue to struggle the draft pick or picks if Kane gets traded... though I hope he stays and have a feeling OK is still recovering as much a confidence thing,... that the Sabres find some depth.  JBOT, is limited as others have said because of TMs stupidity giving away picks, but that is water under the bridge.  Just sucks because I thought we would see more out of this team this year.  But in some ways this does remind me of the years the Oilers struggled.  They will find their footing.  I just hope it is in the next few years...  

 

Between the Sabres who I had hope for and the Bills who I had no hope for but are doing the very Billsy thing they have done that last couple of years... collapsing when it mattered most... it is a very depressing year for Buffalo spots...  a least I am watching a lot of hockey... as much as I hate to say it... watching the Toronto play is fun... watching Pittsburgh is fun... and St. Louis tough nose regular season play... and Tampa... just wow, reminds me of what it looks like to see good hockey.

Edited November 13, 2017 by North Buffalo

[eman]

I am over 50 and have been waiting.  Still think this team is lacking help on offense for Jack.  They need scorers... hopefully Middlestadt and Nylander step up next year.  I mind that the team is playing like shiite, but at least if they continue to struggle the draft pick or picks if Kane gets traded... though I hope he stays and have a feeling OK is still recovering as much a confidence thing,... that the Sabres find some depth.  JBOT, is limited as others have said because of TMs stupidity giving away picks, but that is water under the bridge.  Just sucks because I thought we would see more out of this team this year.  But in some ways this does remind me of the years the Oilers struggled.  They will find their footing.  I just hope it is in the next few years...  

 

Between the Sabres who I had hope for and the Bills who I had no hope for but are doing the very Billsy thing they have done that last couple of years... collapsing when it mattered most... it is a very depressing year for Buffalo spots...  a least I am watching a lot of hockey... as much as I hate to say it... watching the Toronto play is fun... watching Pittsburgh is fun... and St. Louis tough nose regular season play... and Tampa... just wow, reminds me of what it looks like to see good hockey.

Great quote on the bottom of your post North Buffalo. Schoenfeld was one of the reasons I became a Sabres fan. Tough as nails and sacrificed his body a ton to block shots. I really miss him. Wish we had someone on D who plays like he did.

 

I once had the pleasure of sitting next to his Dad at the old Maple Leaf Gardens when Schoenfeld was a head coach. Great guy and so proud of his son. He was beaming as I gushed over how much I enjoyed watching his son play. It was a cool moment for me. I really hope JBot rebuilds via the draft and good scouting. We are starved for some good times again.

[ddaryl]

Great quote on the bottom of your post North Buffalo. Schoenfeld was one of the reasons I became a Sabres fan. Tough as nails and sacrificed his body a ton to block shots. I really miss him. Wish we had someone on D who plays like he did.

 

I once had the pleasure of sitting next to his Dad at the old Maple Leaf Gardens when Schoenfeld was a head coach. Great guy and so proud of his son. He was beaming as I gushed over how much I enjoyed watching his son play. It was a cool moment for me. I really hope JBot rebuilds via the draft and good scouting. We are starved for some good times again.

 

 

Yes Schoenfeld was awesome.. Got to watch him in our glory days as a kid

 

This is still one of my favorite Schoenfeld moments

 

https://youtu.be/XXpcb5aTnPk

[Iron Crotch]

This is me pretty much every year...

 

 

 

 

[BMWR100RT]

. Patience (with some suffering) since 1970!!!

 

fixed that for you.

[Pokey Jones]

I remember that Schoenfeld moment but this one was my favourite of all time:

 

[inkman]

We won that very first lottery where we got Perreault and Vancouver got Dale Tallon. That was pretty big (understatement). So how much karma do we have to pay back for that?

It looks like eternity or at least the next 20 years or so while we are alive.

[Weave]

Ignoring another coach maybe?

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/15/no-defense-for-sabres-lack-of-awareness/

 

 

There was a small divide between the players and coach Phil Housley on what went wrong during the Buffalo Sabres' latest loss.....

 

"We changed our game," said right wing Sam Reinhart. "We had no business and no reason to change our game. Hopefully, we can learn from that and be better next game.

 

Housley saw a bigger problem. The Sabres had no defensive awareness.

 

"If we have to play defense, we have to defend well," Housley said. "You have to defend well. You have to play well without the puck if you're going to win."

[Randall Flagg]

Ignoring another coach maybe?

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/15/no-defense-for-sabres-lack-of-awareness/

I'm trying really hard to see this point, and I can't do it. Or even really come close.

 

Phil is broadly talking about defending well and playing well off the puck. Sam and Lehner said they stopped trying to play with the puck at all and shouldn't have done that. There is no way in which these two statements contradict each other and I guarantee each group agrees with the point the other made. Those two statements aren't answering the same question. Phil understands that shutting the other team down can involve, hey, some offensive zone time. And Sam understands that in the situations where we don't keep the puck, because nobody has the puck 100% of the time especially when leading in the 3rd, the defense has to be sharp.

 

But sure, the coach killers are at it again? 

[Weave]

Dammit.  Who beat me to that trademark?

[WildCard]

Sounds like they subconsciously went back to the ol' Byslma ways of playing with a lead.

[Pokey Jones]

Aren't listening or simply are incapable of doing what he asks, either way they suck. 

[Randall Flagg]

Dammit.  Who beat me to that trademark?

Whichever TBN member wrote that article! BTW, rereading my post it sounds like I was contending you but I meant 100% of the snark towards the article and its conclusions

 

Sounds like they subconsciously went back to the ol' Byslma ways of playing with a lead.

I really think every coach does it, it's just that only one does it the most out of any team in the NHL. "Alamo mode" may have been the most-used phrase on this board while Lindy was here

[Stoner]

Not for nothing, but how many years did the Sabres lead the way in Hockey Prospects (or was it Hockey's Future?) rankings? Where do our wunder-prospects disappear to? Or are these sites full of bunk?

 

And we're to believe that Middleborough and Goulet are going to pan out?

[Thorner]

Not for nothing, but how many years did the Sabres lead the way in Hockey Prospects (or was it Hockey's Future?) rankings? Where do our wunder-prospects disappear to? Or are these sites full of bunk?

 

And we're to believe that Middleborough and Goulet are going to pan out?

It just speaks to the futility of putting much emphasis on prospect rankings: not even because it's hard to predict the aptitude for success of young players, but because strictly looking at a prospect pool doesn't tell you much about the future success of a team. So much more goes into building a team than shoving in a few high talent prospects, as we all know.

 

Eichel, Ristolainen, Reinhart. All guys that contributed to our high rankings on those lists, and all guys who have been producing for us pretty much expected (Reinhart's slow start this year notwithstanding). Eichel certainly. 2nd in rookie points his first year, 11th in p/gp in just his sophomore season..

 

Yes, some of the guys we've had on those lists haven't panned out, but overall it just speaks to how poor the team around them was when they were asked to step in, and how poor it still is now.

 

It's about building a team, not a game of Connect-Four where high talent kids can be stacked upon one another until suddenly everything connects and your team is good.

[Pokey Jones]

Considering all the high picks, we've had more busts than successes. We were supposed to have a full cupboard when  lot of these guys were 18 or 19 with bright futures. Guys like Fasching were considered top prospects and have basically amounted to nothing. Perhaps we don't know how to develop players well, but for the most part it has just been poor drafting. 

 

The good news (lol) is that most of the prospects Murray traded way haven't amounted to much either :)

[Neo]

Jack needs to just say, "###### it!  Follow me, boys!" and seize this team by the nads.

THAT would turn an $8 million player into a $10 million player.

[Ogre]

THAT would turn an $8 million player into a $10 million player.

That’s roughly $43G/nad if anyone is keeping score.

[dudacek]

I’ve never been too focused on systems; to me it’s about chemistry, balance and putting the players you have in a position to succeed.

The good teams have a lot of players who are among the best at their roles.

 

The Sabres have some fairly well-defined roles, it’s just that too many players haven’t been good at them.

 

For this team to succeed:

Jack Eichel is supposed to be the franchise player, a guy who enforces his will on a game offensively, produces an elite level of offence and forces the other team to defend every time he’s on the ice. Instead he has been merely good offensively, has rarely taken over a game and other teams have been able to spend a lot of time in our zone when he’s on the ice. He has one PP point.

 

Ryan O’Reilly needs to eliminate the other teams top centre while supplying good offensive production and leading our special teams. The offence has largely been there after a slow start. I’m not going to point fingers wholly on Ryan, but the PK has been average, the PP has been bad and, for whatever it’s worth, he is a team worst -14 after 19 games.

 

Rasmus Ristolainen has to be a take-charge minute-munching offensive defenceman, providing a physical edge from the backend while keying the power play and the breakout. He needs to supply first-pair offence and at least capable defence while making opponents pay the price. His offence was disappointing before the injury and his defence hasn’t improved. Like Jack we haven’t seen him impose himself on a game the way he can. He has continued to munch minutes.

 

Evander Kane needs to be a first line power forward, supplying goals, a physical edge, and even strength scoring. He has done all that and leads the league in SH goals to boot. He has cut back on his selfish, puck hog, shoot from everywhere tendencies and has been one of the most effective wingers in the league.

 

Kyle Okposo also needs to be a first-line power forward. He’s not as natural a scorer, or as good off the rushes as Kane, but he needs dominate on the cycle, be a bull against the boards, crash the net and take a lot of shots and create opportunities for his linemates. He’s scored at barely a third-line level. Worse, he’s been a step slow and hasn’t been able to get into position for scoring chances or create the body position needed to win battles and create offense.

 

Sam Reinhart needs to create offence, primarily by making other forwards better through his hockey sense. He has failed to drive offence on his own and hasn’t added much to his linemates game. He’s performed more like a run-of-the-mill complementary top nine forward than a core piece.

 

That’s just the core.

Edited November 18, 2017 by dudacek

[dudacek]

On the second level, new additions Benoit Pouliot and Jason Pominville are supposed to be complementary pieces in the top nine. Both have succeeded. Pouliot is a big body with speed. He works hard is positionally sound and has added a surprising amount of goal scoring and been a good penalty killer. Pominville doesn’t do a lot to get noticed, but he’s not a liability in his own end, moves the puck and himself to the right spots and finishes when he gets a chance.

 

Johan Larsson and Zemgus Girgensons are supposed to supply bottom six grit and versatility. They’ve been relatively successful. Larry is a very effective fourth line centre with enough battle and hockey sense to fill in against more talented opponents. He doesn’t score enough to centre the third line. Zemgus appeared to play fairly well higher up the roster, but didn’t last there long. He’s skated well and forechecked hard. Both have been decent on the PK.

 

Marco Scandella is supposed to be a reliable two-way secondary defencemen who can be used in any situation. He’s been pretty good on D, just OK on O, but more or less has met expectations, at least between shaking off the early season rust and being asked to do too much after Risto went down.

 

Zack Bogosian has been unavailable. Not a surprise, although Housley was clearly counting on him to be a top 3 guy.

 

Jake McCabe and Nathan Beaulieu were supposed to be the 4/5 guys on D. Beaulieu was supposed to add to the attack from the blueline. He has 2 points and has been a giveaway machine. McCabe is an all-situations guy who has regressed in all situations. He looks like he did as a rookie - over his head.

 

Robin Lehner has played hard and had several solid periods and games, marred by a few mental lapses and inconsistencies. He has been hung out to dry by his team far more than the other way around.

.

Edited November 18, 2017 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Matt Moulson and Seth Griffith are supposed to bring depth scoring. They have failed, pretty much utterly.

 

Josh Gorges and Justin Falk are supposed to bring some defensive zone battle to the 6/7 D slot. Both, by and large, have done just that. Falk may be the only Sabre to have played better than expectations, performing adequately on the shutdown pair. Gorges has shown he can play in this league if properly utilized.

 

Jordan Nolan is adequate at best in the fourth-line meathead role. Jacob Josefson gets an incomplete as versatile fourth-liner. Victor Antipin has been sheltered, showing both warts and good signs as the team has handled him with kid gloves. He gets an incomplete too. Chad Johnson hasn’t been good enough.

 

Taylor Fedun and Matt Tennyson were signed to be depth defencemen. We’ve seen too much of Tennyson, but each has been fine relative to expectations.

 

So basically, many of our best players aren’t doing what we are asking them to do, we don’t have enough talent further down in our roster, and very few Sabres are actually exceeding expectations.

 

It’s no wonder we are where we are.

[7+6=13]

Matt Moulson and Seth Griffith are supposed to bring depth scoring. They have failed, pretty much utterly.

 

Josh Gorges and Justin Falk are supposed to bring some defensive zone battle to the 6/7 D slot. Both, by and large, have done just that. Falk may be the only Sabre to have played better than expectations, performing adequately on the shutdown pair. Gorges has shown he can play in this league if properly utilized.

 

Jordan Nolan is adequate at best in the fourth-line meathead role. Jacob Josefson gets an incomplete as versatile fourth-liner. Victor Antipin has been sheltered, showing both warts and good signs as the team has handled him with kid gloves. He gets an incomplete too. Chad Johnson hasn’t been good enough.

 

Taylor Fedun and Matt Tennyson were signed to be depth defencemen. We’ve seen too much of Tennyson, but each has been fine relative to expectations.

 

So basically, many of our best players aren’t doing what we are asking them to do, we don’t have enough talent further down in our roster, and very few Sabres are actually exceeding expectations.

 

It’s no wonder we are where we are.

 

Sadly I agree with everything you've said.

[Eleven]

Matt Moulson and Seth Griffith are supposed to bring depth scoring. They have failed, pretty much utterly.

 

Josh Gorges and Justin Falk are supposed to bring some defensive zone battle to the 6/7 D slot. Both, by and large, have done just that. Falk may be the only Sabre to have played better than expectations, performing adequately on the shutdown pair. Gorges has shown he can play in this league if properly utilized.

 

Jordan Nolan is adequate at best in the fourth-line meathead role. Jacob Josefson gets an incomplete as versatile fourth-liner. Victor Antipin has been sheltered, showing both warts and good signs as the team has handled him with kid gloves. He gets an incomplete too. Chad Johnson hasn’t been good enough.

 

Taylor Fedun and Matt Tennyson were signed to be depth defencemen. We’ve seen too much of Tennyson, but each has been fine relative to expectations.

 

So basically, many of our best players aren’t doing what we are asking them to do, we don’t have enough talent further down in our roster, and very few Sabres are actually exceeding expectations.

 

It’s no wonder we are where we are.

 

Griffith, Tenyson, Fedun, Falk all belong in Rochester.

[Randall Flagg]

Awesome posts.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Matt Moulson and Seth Griffith are supposed to bring depth scoring. They have failed, pretty much utterly.

Josh Gorges and Justin Falk are supposed to bring some defensive zone battle to the 6/7 D slot. Both, by and large, have done just that. Falk may be the only Sabre to have played better than expectations, performing adequately on the shutdown pair. Gorges has shown he can play in this league if properly utilized.

Jordan Nolan is adequate at best in the fourth-line meathead role. Jacob Josefson gets an incomplete as versatile fourth-liner. Victor Antipin has been sheltered, showing both warts and good signs as the team has handled him with kid gloves. He gets an incomplete too. Chad Johnson hasn’t been good enough.

Taylor Fedun and Matt Tennyson were signed to be depth defencemen. We’ve seen too much of Tennyson, but each has been fine relative to expectations.

So basically, many of our best players aren’t doing what we are asking them to do, we don’t have enough talent further down in our roster, and very few Sabres are actually exceeding expectations.

It’s no wonder we are where we are.

Sounds just like last year. Rinse and repeat.