WTF is wrong with this team?

[Doohicksie]

Give it time

 

Oof :sick:

[Brawndo]

How many players on this current roster would play for and in a similar role of good hockey team?

I think the answer is 2 (3 if Johnson is your backup in goal). Jack & Sam, I think Sam is a 3rd line center on a real team. Like Kadri in Tor.

Is ROR a No. 1 center? Or Should he be a winger? Colo tried both way. FO% keeps him in the middle, but he is really a 2nd line center at best and on a team like Pitt, he'd be the 3rd center.

KO - Played first line with Tavares on a marginal playoff team, but he is really best suited for a 2nd line role. I'm also not sure he is 100%

Pommers - playing top 2 line here, but shouldn't be playing top line minutes at this point in his career

Josefson shouldn't be in the NHL

Moulson shouldn't be in the NHL

Pouliot may also be done as an NHL player

Kane - the puck hog. He seems like a top 6 winger skill wise, but his inability to add anything to his line mates makes him a 3rd line player. No championship calibre teams wants a guy in the toip 6 that can't and won't pass.

Girgensons and Larsson - Neither would be anything but 4th line players on a real team. Both have visit that rightful place, but because of the lack of talent above them, both keep getting looks at better lines.

Griffith - not sure if he is Girgensons or Larsson or another Josefson. He doesn't (and didn't) make good teams like Tor and Boston other then as an injury replacement.

Nolan - 4th liner here, but cut from a team also unlikely to make the playoffs.

Would Risto be a top pair D? - No. His defensive gaffs would prevent that.

Scandella - played 2nd and 3rd line minutes for playoff regular Minn. Now a top pairing guy here.

McCabe - our third best D, but a 3rd pairing who can move up for injuries guy elsewhere. He is close to sloted right.

Bogo - injury prone and overrated - dumped on us by a bad team. TM thought he could be a top line guy here, production and injuried means he should be at best a 3rd line guy elsewhere. When healthy, he's second line guy here.

Baloo - Third line puck mover with limited D zone skills. Has been playing as Risto's partner to start the season. Enough said

Antipin - KHL rookie - he needs time to figure in out. Frankly I'm surprised he started in the lineup. Not ready yet. Wouldn't have been given a contract by many contenders, although D depth is hard to find.

Tennyson - Another AAAA guy who is best in the AHL and would be there on a good team.

Lehner - is he a goalie for a conteder. Not if he can't stop a breakaway. Everything else is there.

Bottomline: we are miles away from having the core to compete with the big boys. We need better players with better attitudes.

Good stuff here GA, although Pittsburgh did offer Antipin a contract (his words). But as you mentioned they would not offer him playing time as Buffalo could. Two months in Rochester playing Top 4 Minutes would have been greatly beneficial, but unfortunately his contract prevented that.

 

I really liked GMTM when he was here, I made sure I never missed an appearance on GR or any pressers he did.

I've come to the realization that GMTM and his ZFG Attitude really fouled up the rebuild.

 

ROR and Kane are good players, but bringing them in to accelerate the rebuild did not work and the assets paid in 1st and 2nd Round Picks in 2015 as well as JT Compher was too much.

 

And trading a First for a GT has been discussed ad nauseum.

 

As Crusader mentioned, there is help on the way for 2018-19, but it's still going to take Botterill some time to sort this mess out

[Samson's Flow]

Wait, was Evander flirting with Kim?

For some reason I thought that was Doug Whaley. :lol:

 

Well done Duda.

[Neo]

Dudacek ... I’m without words ... Bravo, BRAVO!!

 

Not since, as Smell mentioned, PA and Lindy ...

 

(LOL, I unknowingly replicated LTS’s praise phrases. Late to the party, it seems!)

Edited October 12, 2017 by Neo

[MDFan]

How many players on this current roster would play for and in a similar role of good hockey team?

I think the answer is 2 (3 if Johnson is your backup in goal). Jack & Sam, I think Sam is a 3rd line center on a real team. Like Kadri in Tor.

Is ROR a No. 1 center? Or Should he be a winger? Colo tried both way. FO% keeps him in the middle, but he is really a 2nd line center at best and on a team like Pitt, he'd be the 3rd center.

KO - Played first line with Tavares on a marginal playoff team, but he is really best suited for a 2nd line role. I'm also not sure he is 100%

Pommers - playing top 2 line here, but shouldn't be playing top line minutes at this point in his career

Josefson shouldn't be in the NHL

Moulson shouldn't be in the NHL

Pouliot may also be done as an NHL player

Kane - the puck hog. He seems like a top 6 winger skill wise, but his inability to add anything to his line mates makes him a 3rd line player. No championship calibre teams wants a guy in the toip 6 that can't and won't pass.

Girgensons and Larsson - Neither would be anything but 4th line players on a real team. Both have visit that rightful place, but because of the lack of talent above them, both keep getting looks at better lines.

Griffith - not sure if he is Girgensons or Larsson or another Josefson. He doesn't (and didn't) make good teams like Tor and Boston other then as an injury replacement.

Nolan - 4th liner here, but cut from a team also unlikely to make the playoffs.

Would Risto be a top pair D? - No. His defensive gaffs would prevent that.

Scandella - played 2nd and 3rd line minutes for playoff regular Minn. Now a top pairing guy here.

McCabe - our third best D, but a 3rd pairing who can move up for injuries guy elsewhere. He is close to sloted right.

Bogo - injury prone and overrated - dumped on us by a bad team. TM thought he could be a top line guy here, production and injuried means he should be at best a 3rd line guy elsewhere. When healthy, he's second line guy here.

Baloo - Third line puck mover with limited D zone skills. Has been playing as Risto's partner to start the season. Enough said

Antipin - KHL rookie - he needs time to figure in out. Frankly I'm surprised he started in the lineup. Not ready yet. Wouldn't have been given a contract by many contenders, although D depth is hard to find.

Tennyson - Another AAAA guy who is best in the AHL and would be there on a good team.

Lehner - is he a goalie for a conteder. Not if he can't stop a breakaway. Everything else is there.

Bottomline: we are miles away from having the core to compete with the big boys. We need better players with better attitudes.

I wish I could find reason to take issue with anything you said, but sadly, I cannot. Great post, even if you did burst my hopelessly hoping bubble of early season Sabres fan optimism. (Not that the team hasn't done their best to poke holes in my fantasies already) Sigh.

[Scottysabres]

I can remember reading on this board about the possibility of a 3 year turn around. Its looking more and more like a 7 year thing.

 

What's wrong with this team? To much to list.

[qwksndmonster]

I still can't get over the Callaway callout. Too perfect

[GASabresIUFAN]

I forget Gorges and Falk in my analysis. I’m sorry.

 

Gorges - shouldn’t be in the NHL. At best he is a 7th D, but not in a system focused on speed and puck moving.

Falk - I like what he did here last year and think in a non-speed system, he’d be an adequte 6th D. Sadly not for Housley’s system.

[North Buffalo]

I tried, Sabrespace. I really tried.

I collected every nuanced crack of our observations, every nugget of wisdom we've gleaned from five years of misery and suffering. Every 15,000-word Flagg thesis on Carolina's breakout, every GA plea for another minor league defenceman, every poignant Liger gif and heart-wrenching Josie painting. Every Callaway suicide note scrawled on the back of a season ticket renewal form. I put it all on a spreadsheet, tucked my laptop under my arm and I marched down to the building once called the Crossroads. This had to be fixed before the team touched down in San Jose.

"Trent Kaese, '89," I mumbled to a downey-cheeked security guard, flashing my fake alumni ID at the delivery bay door. "I'm here to talk to Rayzor about Kenny Priestlay's 50th birthday." I scuttled past before he could look too closely, but not fast enough to miss him mumbling "damn, some of these ex-players really let themselves go" to the UPS guy.

I kept my head down as I moved around a sobbing nine-year old boy carrying a battered Sherwood PMP 5030 featherlight, its blade worn to a dangerous point from countless road hockey matches. He was playing Showdown with a bearded blonde giant of a man. The tennis ball flashed, rippling mesh; fivehole, cookieshelf, waffleside. Again and again. "Please mister, let me stop," the boy pleaded. "I've scored ever time, every single time." "Again," the Viking grunted, his cheeks flush and nostrils flaring. "I must break you."

Two young men pedalled in behind me on a tandem bike. The one in the front didn't seem to know whether he should be steering down the middle of the corridor, or along its right-hand side. The one on the back wasn't moving his feet.

I knew I was headed in the right direction when I passed a guy carrying a stack of 17 well-worn whiteboards on his way to the dumpster. I found Coach Housley behind a manicured desk, practicing handclaps along to the rhythms of a video featuring a bald wrestler in a blue and red bison cap.

He looked at my face. My lanyard. My torso. And again at my face.

"Trent...?" he said. "You've changed."

"Never mind," I blurted, slamming my laptop down on the polished teak hard enough to nearly topple a neatly-positioned photograph of a pretty, blonde middle-aged woman wearing a "Lets make America Great Again" button. "It's all here. Everything you need. We've got it all figured out! Put Reinhart at centre, no wing, I mean Girgensons.I mean Larsson. I mean bench Beaulieu I mean Antipin and get Kane away from Eichel and O'Reilly away from Okposo and Risto away from everyone because they aren't good enough for him and for God's sake don't let Gorges ever play another game unless your only other choice is Tennyson and hire back last year's power play coach, no get Babcock, no ###### Babcock, and balance your top three lines while concentrating all your firepower in the top six, and get tougher, and faster and try harder, and make the system fit the players, no, I mean the players fit the system, and make sure you use common sense, put Jack and our three best shooters in the shootout and demand accountability from the players while not forgetting to ask about their families or overlook those dramatic moments while..."

"Trent... TRENT!" Coach Housley said, his hand inching toward the phone. "Let me call Petey, he usually has stuff for times like these..."

"Richer was right about you'" I shouted. "Soft! Soft! SOFT! Put down your purse and fix this! Think of the children! Hall of fame my ass! Rammer was twice the defenceman! Lindy would know what to do!

I grabbed my laptop and ran.

I ran past a chiselled young black man flirting over cell phone pictures with an elegant Asian woman, past a befuddled-looking bespectacled white dude rambling on about God-knows-what to a short, brown haired man with a suit and a too-attentive smile, past a bearded emo millennial, tears streaming down his cheeks as he haltingly strummed the chords to "Hurt," past an older, round-shouldered gentleman ironing socks while mumbling about how he warned them what would happen if the kids didn't earn their numbers.

Rounding the corner at the bottom of the staircase I almost collided with my destination. He was big, bigger than he looked on TV, with hands the size of Easter hams and a jaw as stubborn as I imagine PA's to be. And that head...as enormous as Jason Kasdorf's five-hole or an RJ call on a playoff game-winner in overtime.

"Jas..., er, JBot, I mean Mr. Botter...OH WHY CANT YOU JUST HAVE A CATCHY NAME LIKE TEDDY OR PATTY OR...I mean, I'm sorry, but you have to do something. It's been three games and things haven't gotten any better. They might be worse...I mean, I never told the others, hell, I couldn't even admit it to myself, but the summer, the summer it always gives me hope and it's gone, it's gone already. I mean it's been so long and we've lost so many - Sizzle, JJ, X, Dwight, poor, poor Yuri - they've all gone and we're here, all alone. Oh god it just hurts, it hurts so much."

I flinched as he flashed his fist in my face. But then I relaxed. He wasn't going to hit me, he was showing me his ring. It was thick, heavy, and inscribed with the words "Stanley Cup champion."

"I've got three of them," he said.

"And I have plan. We have a way we want play, a culture we want to establish. We have good players, we just have to make sure we have the right players and we teach them how to play the right way. We're going to learn and so are they."

"WTF is wrong with this team? Not as much as you might think from Monday's game, but more than we can fix in five months."

"But we will fix it. We know how and we will keep working for as long as it takes.

Walk away, or watch and enjoy the ride."

"Keep your chin up. Read Qwk's movie opinions and learn. Laugh at the in-jokes. Bitch about the players. Hate the Leafs and the Bruins with everything you've got. Repeat the same old debates and start some new ones. Don't forget to enjoy the wins when they arrive.

"And make sure you keep Blue and Freeman in line."

. Awesome, channeling your inner Herb Brooks!

[7+6=13]

I thought Jeremy White made an excellent point this morning when he asked "what pieces have the Sabres added since drafting Eichel"?  He then said Okposo and...?

 

To me that's the issue and why it's going to be a bit longer.  It's critical at least two of the young prospects become excellent NHL players. 

 

Then your young players are good enough to move O'reilly and Okposo types to the 3rd line. - They're good players and can be effective against those defenders. 

[3putt]

I thought Jeremy White made an excellent point this morning when he asked "what pieces have the Sabres added since drafting Eichel"?  He then said Okposo and...?

 

To me that's the issue and why it's going to be a bit longer.  It's critical at least two of the young prospects become excellent NHL players. 

 

Then your young players are good enough to move O'reilly and Okposo types to the 3rd line. - They're good players and can be effective against those defenders.

 

13.5 mm on the third line? Hmmm interesting.

[dudacek]

O'Reilly and Okposo are not stars but they are proven 1st line players.

On any team in the league.

 

Now let's see them start playing like it.

[qwksndmonster]

O'Reilly and Okposo are not stars but they are proven 1st line players.

On any team in the league.

 

Now let's see them start playing like it.

F'real.

[SwampD]

O'Reilly and Okposo are not stars but they are proven 1st line players.

On any team in the league.

 

Now let's see them start playing like it.

I got shredded a while back for doubting that ROR is a first line center on a Cup contending team. I still believe that.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I thought Jeremy White made an excellent point this morning when he asked "what pieces have the Sabres added since drafting Eichel"? He then said Okposo and...?

 

To me that's the issue and why it's going to be a bit longer. It's critical at least two of the young prospects become excellent NHL players.

 

Then your young players are good enough to move O'reilly and Okposo types to the 3rd line. - They're good players and can be effective against those defenders.

 

Scandella. However, I agree with the general principal. That’s why I bitch so much about our pipeline.

 

As to ROR and KO. They aren’t 1st line players. Good second line players, but we need more from them if they are going to play 1st line minutes.

Edited October 13, 2017 by GASabresFan

[dudacek]

Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak

Zetterberg Tatar Nielsen

Huberdeau Barkov Trocheck

Drouin Pacioretty Gallagher

Ryan Hoffman Brassard

Stamkos Johnson Kucherov

Nylander Marner Matthews.

 

Arguably those are the top three forwards from each team in our division.

O'Reilly, or at least, the O'Reilly we saw before this year, is better than half of them, and Okposo matches up with the bottom third.

[GASabresIUFAN]

your maintaining that opinion after what you've seen so far this season.  

 

If this continues for the rest of the road trip. If I'm Housley I'd bench some of these "stars" including ROR, KO and Sam and call up a couple of kids just as a shot across the bow of these players.

[Thorner]

We have quickly regained our usual place at the very bottom of the standings.

 

4 games in. 31st out of 31.

[GASabresIUFAN]

We have quickly regained our usual place at the very bottom of the standings.

 

4 games in. 31st out of 31.

DD is laughing all the way to the bank.  

 

It may be time to offer Gionta a contract.

Edited October 13, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Thorner]

I suppose 31st itself is all new territory.

 

To boldly go....

 

DD is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

It may be time to offer Gionta a contract.

Sabres represented by Homer:

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Thorny

[Jacque Richard]

Mentally weak

[LTS]

Mentally weak

 

It's a team built for its fan base.

[SwampD]

It's a team built for its fan base.

Oh, great. Now it's my fault again!

[Pokey Jones]

I got shredded a while back for doubting that ROR is a first line center on a Cup contending team. I still believe that.

I'm sure you did get shredded, and I'll be called a troll or something but you're absolutely right. He's never been a #1 center. When he was playing well (not this year) you could make a solid argument that he was one of the best, if not the best, second center in hockey, but not a number one. 

 

Even Murray's plan was Jack #1, ROR #2, and that seemed sound, in theory. Clearly not though. 

[qwksndmonster]

I got shredded a while back for doubting that ROR is a first line center on a Cup contending team. I still believe that.

I remember most people saying that he doesn't hafta be because Jack