Player Style Preference

[Taro T]

Strome was a 1C leading up to the draft too. I stand by my statement. The difference between the two without the puck on their stick is like the grand canyon. I much prefer Jack with the puck on his stick, though. I'll throw this out there for a developing Jack - I was thrilled with his defensive play tonight in a game where his overall effort level was (rightfully so) quite low. I'm excited to see him play with the fire we know he's going to have.

So was Reinhart in his draft.

 

Ducks.

 

WHAT!?!?

[Thorner]

Strome was a 1C leading up to the draft too. I stand by my statement. The difference between the two without the puck on their stick is like the grand canyon. I much prefer Jack with the puck on his stick, though. I'll throw this out there for a developing Jack - I was thrilled with his defensive play tonight in a game where his overall effort level was (rightfully so) quite low. I'm excited to see him play with the fire we know he's going to have.

Ryan Strome has no bearing on Eichel, and is neither here nor there.

 

And Hockey Sense isn't just about what you do when the puck isn't on your stick. It of course comes into play when handling the puck, as well.

[WildCard]

Strome was a 1C leading up to the draft too. I stand by my statement. The difference between the two without the puck on their stick is like the grand canyon. I much prefer Jack with the puck on his stick, though. 

I'll throw this out there for a developing Jack - I was thrilled with his defensive play tonight in a game where his overall effort level was (rightfully so) quite low. I'm excited to see him play with the fire we know he's going to have.

He's not a complete idiot but he's closer to Kane than to those two. If I had time I'd keep track of how many ill-advised passes/wrong decisions/collisions with teammates/cycle plays that don't involve him explicitly where he doesn't get open for even a millisecond but I don't have time

 

Luckily for us his skillset is unstoppable so it doesn't really matter and he'll still score a point per game. 

Go home Flagg, you're drunk

[Thorner]

I'm beginning to think we might just have different definitions of what Hockey Sense is. I always see Hockey Sense as incorporating Vision. And Jack's vision is outstanding, it's part of what makes him such a great playmaker.

[Randall Flagg]

Ryan Strome has no bearing on Eichel, and is neither here nor there.

 

And Hockey Sense isn't just about what you do when the puck isn't on your stick. It of course comes into play when handling the puck, as well.

I meant Dylan, and that scouts are often horribly wrong so that your argument about what they said then doesn't sway what I see now. 

 

For sure, and like I said Jack isn't a complete idiot, but I think Matthews is a savant so

 

When off-puck hockey sense is lacking it sticks out like a sore thumb, which is why I comment on it when comparing Jack to actual elite players in that regard 

Ultimately I couldn't hope to define what I see as hockey sense better than the description which Neo gave, hence my jumping on it to explain what I mean when I talk about Jack and hockey sense.

[Thorner]

And if I'm the only one that incorporates vision into hockey sense, I blame the EA Sports NHL series.

I meant Dylan, and that scouts are often horribly wrong so that your argument about what they said then doesn't sway what I see now.

 

For sure, and like I said Jack isn't a complete idiot, but I think Matthews is a savant so

When off-puck hockey sense is lacking it sticks out like a sore thumb, which is why I comment on it when comparing Jack to actual elite players in that regard Ultimately I couldn't hope to define what I see as hockey sense better than the description which Neo gave, hence my jumping on it to explain what I mean when I talk about Jack and hockey sense.

Jack is a better playmaker than Matthews though. I'd argue Jack's vision with the puck on his stick is as good or better that Matthews. To include that in an assessment of his Hockey Sense and sum it all up as "like I said, he's not a complete idiot" is lame. If Jack has better hockey sense in that regard, I'm not seeing a huge gap overall.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Thorny

[SwampD]

There's something to what Flagg is saying. It's definitely not 0%, though.

[Randall Flagg]

There's something to what Flagg is saying. It's definitely not 0%, though.

I have this really nasty habit of exaggerating a lot and drawing deserved backlash because of it

[Thorner]

There's something to what Flagg is saying. It's definitely not 0%, though.

For sure. Away from the puck he's totally right. I just think he's not giving the strong side of Jack's hockey sense enough credit: How he sees the ice with the puck on his stick.

 

I have this really nasty habit of exaggerating a lot and drawing deserved backlash because of it

Pretty much dude. I'm near positive I've already used the "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" meme on you. I'm going to have to have to start remembering these things :lol:

 

I"m probably just focusing too much on the mole-hill.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

And if I'm the only one that incorporates vision into hockey sense, I blame the EA Sports NHL series.

 

Jack is a better playmaker than Matthews though. I'd argue Jack's vision with the puck on his stick is as good or better that Matthews. To include that in an assessment of his Hockey Sense and sum it all up as "like I said, he's not a complete idiot" is lame. If Jack has better hockey sense in that regard, I'm not seeing a huge gap overall.

I need to watch Matthews play and figure out why his assist totals are so low, for sure. Without recent games to watch I'm inclined to agree that Jack can probably find passing lanes better, he's blown me away many times in that regard. So I'll shift my goalposts and say that my problem isn't with the passing ability, but maybe a tendency to trust it too much at times and force things, and a tendency to choose to pass when he probably shouldn't. Which are growing pains and not hockey-sense indicative IMO. The hockey sense stuff I talk about is the gooey Gretzky magic that Neo describes, when I pick on John-Robert.

[Randall Flagg]

If I can finish what I'm doing before I fall asleep here I'll try to find some video since it's Friday of just what I mean

[Thorner]

I need to watch Matthews play and figure out why his assist totals are so low, for sure. Without recent games to watch I'm inclined to agree that Jack can probably find passing lanes better, he's blown me away many times in that regard. So I'll shift my goalposts and say that my problem isn't with the passing ability, but maybe a tendency to trust it too much at times and force things, and a tendency to choose to pass when he probably shouldn't. Which are growing pains and not hockey-sense indicative IMO. The hockey sense stuff I talk about is the gooey Gretzky magic that Neo describes, when I pick on John-Robert.

I'd agree with this.

 

If I can finish what I'm doing before I fall asleep here I'll try to find some video since it's Friday of just what I mean

There were times even in today's game Jack made a pass attempt on the PP that had NO chance of getting through. I totally get what you are saying. Trusting it too much and forcing, in those instances.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

I'd agree with this.

 

 

There were times even in today's game Jack made a pass attempt on the PP that had NO chance of getting through. I totally get what you are saying. Trusting it too much and forcing, in those instances.

We'll see them even less in the regular season because for some reason Jack refused to take a shot on net in preseason, relative to how he usually plays. We'll see a lot of the *correct shots being taken versus a forced pass that isn't there. 

 

Hopefully he doesn't break Samson, who I'm pretty sure took that one timer off the chest on the first PP. 

[Thorner]

I was very relieved to see Sam was ok.

[rakish]

I need to watch Matthews play and figure out why his assist totals are so low,

 

On a stat level. Hyman played most of his ES minutes with Matthews (988 of 1098 using my inaccurate method of measuring playing time). Based upon number of shots and their distance, Hyman should have scored 18.0 goals, he scored 6.

 

Willie Nylander played about half of his ES minutes with Matthews, scored about as many as he should have, but scored goals much better without him, he was .56/60 with Nylander, and .74/60 total, meaning that he was roughly .9/60 without Matthews.

 

Connor Brown played about a third of his ES minutes with Matthews, scored more than he should have, but like Nylander, scored less with Matthews, .84/60, than without, roughly 1.1/60.

 

Therefore, Matthews lacked assists because he played with an unskilled offensive player (Hyman) and he doesn't enable his linemates who are (Nylander and Brown)

[Thorner]

^ i.e. - He's not a great playmaker.

[LGR4GM]

I prefer winners

[Marvelo]

We'll see them even less in the regular season because for some reason Jack refused to take a shot on net in preseason, relative to how he usually plays. We'll see a lot of the *correct shots being taken versus a forced pass that isn't there. 

 

Hopefully he doesn't break Samson, who I'm pretty sure took that one timer off the chest on the first PP. 

 

If Sam's role is going to stand in front of the net, I think he should wear a cage. I've seen too many broken jaws like Vanek and LaFontaine of guys who stand in front. The puck just bounces too fast to react.

[Weave]

If Sam's role is going to stand in front of the net, I think he should wear a cage. I've seen too many broken jaws like Vanek and LaFontaine of guys who stand in front. The puck just bounces too fast to react.

???

 

LaFontaine got his jaw broke by Jamie Macoun when he was slashed on a break away.

[Taro T]

If Sam's role is going to stand in front of the net, I think he should wear a cage. I've seen too many broken jaws like Vanek and LaFontaine of guys who stand in front. The puck just bounces too fast to react.

  

???

LaFontaine got his jaw broke by Jamie Macoun when he was slashed on a break away.

Agreed. Not sure wtf he's referring to. And the concussion that finished his career was neutral zone w/ his own teammate.

[DarthEbriate]

Pavel Bure

 

That's it.

I'm here, too. Those 93-94 Canucks (when my family first got cable tv) were amazing to watch because of one person. He would get the puck and attack. And attack, and attack. So fun. What... you want the Russian Rocket to come back across center ice? In the defensive zone? Silliness. A Bure uses the Force for knowledge and attack, never for defense.