Training camp questions #14: who will surprise us?

[Taro T]

The difference, as I recall, was that after a year in the AHL, Reinhart made the NHL squad.  Nylander hasn't shown that yet.  I'm not down on him though.  Different players develop at different rates.  They drafted him because he showed the tools; eventually they should translate to the NHL.

No. The difference is, after a 9 game unimpressive stint in the NHL & dominating in junior, he showed up the next year much more ready for the NHL and scored 23 goals that rookie year.

 

He only had a cup of coffee in the AHL after Kootenay's season was done.

 

Nylander seemed a boy among men against AHLers & didn't show anything while having HIS cup of coffee in the NHL. Too early to give up on him, but with getting injured this year, he hasn't shown that he belongs yet. At this point, Reinhart had shown he warranted another look with a very good camp & made good on his opportunity.

[nfreeman]

Just keep in mind that Nylander is younger for his draft year than Reinhart, played on an awful Rochester squad, and plays a game that I think will need to be tweaked to get it to work at the NHL level. He thinks he can skate around guys and forgets his teammates. This creates problems because he isn't the best player on the ice. 

 

I just want everyone to remember that Nylander is 19 and will be until March. He is still very young and we should not panic yet that a 19 year old is still trying to figure things out. 

 

Definitely. 

 

The injury is kind of a bummer though, as it really impairs IMHO his chances of sticking with the Sabres to start the season.  He'll need to fully recover, then tear it up in Rochester for a good chunk of the season.

[LGR4GM]

No. The difference is, after a 9 game unimpressive stint in the NHL & dominating in junior, he showed up the next year much more ready for the NHL and scored 23 goals that rookie year.

 

He only had a cup of coffee in the AHL after Kootenay's season was done.

 

Nylander seemed a boy among men against AHLers & didn't show anything while having HIS cup of coffee in the NHL. Too early to give up on him, but with getting injured this year, he hasn't shown that he belongs yet. At this point, Reinhart had shown he warranted another look with a very good camp & made good on his opportunity.

That's the thing about people being down on Reinhart, he scored 23 goals as a rookie. 

[dudacek]

Yes, but they were 23 soft goals, 23 slow goals.

And he scored them with a bad attitude.

 

There were at least 10 NHL players under the age of 24 who scored more points than Sam did at age 21 last year. Bust.

[LGR4GM]

Yes, but they were 23 soft goals, 23 slow goals.

And he scored them with a bad attitude.

 

There were at least 10 NHL players under the age of 24 who scored more points than Sam did at age 21 last year. Bust.

lol perfect... 

[Drunkard]

I dunno, I'm hoping to be able to see it both ways. If Samson stinks up the joint at centre, even with the likes of Pouliot and Bailey as his wings, I'd be comfortable with him moving back to wing and calling it a day. A good centre should be able to elevate those around him at least somewhat. I don't expect him to carry the line, but if we aren't even seeing flashes, he'd probably be best suited to wing.

 

I'm hoping and thinking he'll do well at C. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

I keep seeing this statement being repeated by multiple people but no one seems to apply it evenly. If a good center should be expected to elevate his line mates then why do most people jump to stack the few good wingers we have on the lines of Eichel and O'Reilly?

 

Reinhart is still learning the center position in the NHL. He shouldn't be expected to just automatically elevate the play of others, especially when nobody even expects it from the other guys.

 

If you want to apply that standard to Reinhart, then why don't we detach Okposo from O'Reilly's hip? O'Reilly is a good center (enough to give him $50 million), plus he's established, so why don't we stick him with crappy wingers and let him elevate their play? Everyone is ready to give Eichel an $80+ million contract but he gets coddled with our remaining best wingers (Kane and Pominville).  

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't expect Reinhart to elevate the play of mediocre wingers while giving the best ones to the established centers who either already make a ton of money (O'Reilly) or will be making huge money soon (Eichel).

[Weave]

IMO there are only a handful of centers in the league that actually make their wingers better, and they have names like Crosby and McDavid. Hopefully, Jacks name will be added to that list.

 

There is a snowballs chance in hell that Sam has that kind of effect.

[Drunkard]

IMO there are only a handful of centers in the league that actually make their wingers better, and they have names like Crosby and McDavid. Hopefully, Jacks name will be added to that list.

 

There is a snowballs chance in hell that Sam has that kind of effect.

 

All the more reason to spread the talent on the wings out a little more and not expect Reinhart to do what neither O'Reilly and Eichel have even proven to be capable of. One of Okposo, Kane, or Pominville should be on his line.

[Pokey Jones]

Can I say Nolan or is it too late into camp for that?

[Thorner]

I keep seeing this statement being repeated by multiple people but no one seems to apply it evenly. If a good center should be expected to elevate his line mates then why do most people jump to stack the few good wingers we have on the lines of Eichel and O'Reilly?

 

Reinhart is still learning the center position in the NHL. He shouldn't be expected to just automatically elevate the play of others, especially when nobody even expects it from the other guys.

 

If you want to apply that standard to Reinhart, then why don't we detach Okposo from O'Reilly's hip? O'Reilly is a good center (enough to give him $50 million), plus he's established, so why don't we stick him with crappy wingers and let him elevate their play? Everyone is ready to give Eichel an $80+ million contract but he gets coddled with our remaining best wingers (Kane and Pominville).

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't expect Reinhart to elevate the play of mediocre wingers while giving the best ones to the established centers who either already make a ton of money (O'Reilly) or will be making huge money soon (Eichel).

IMO there are only a handful of centers in the league that actually make their wingers better, and they have names like Crosby and McDavid. Hopefully, Jacks name will be added to that list.

There is a snowballs chance in hell that Sam has that kind of effect.

I said "somewhat". I'm not talking Crosby levels, here.

 

I'd argue that ANY good centre elevates his wings to an extent, in that he's going to be the one setting up his linemates with nice feeds for easy(er) goals, more so than whoever would be there instead. I.e. Talent + Chemistry.

 

If Pouliot and Bailey produce more with Reinhart at C than Larsson, Reinhart is elevating them. Somewhat.

 

Relative to who would be there in his place. The equation that's difficult to solve right now, but will be much easier now that Sam is actually getting time at C, is which holds a greater difference: how much Reinhart > Larsson at 3C, compared to how much Reinhart > Pominville at 1 RW. That's the comparison.

 

My guess is that he's going to make more of a positive impact at 3C even with those wingers. Definitely not opposed to him getting someone else on his wing, but I'm not ruling out there being a large net + with the lines as currently constructed.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Thorny

[Drunkard]

I said "somewhat". I'm not talking Crosby levels, here.

 

I'd argue that ANY good centre elevates his wings to an extent, in that he's going to be the one setting up his linemates with nice feeds for easy(er) goals, more so than whoever would be there instead. I.e. Talent + Chemistry.

 

If Pouliot and Bailey produce more with Reinhart at C than Larsson, Reinhart is elevating them. Somewhat.

 

Relative to who would be there in his place. The equation that's difficult to solve right now, but will be much easier now that Sam is actually getting time at C, is which holds a greater difference: how much Reinhart > Larsson at 3C, compared to how much Reinhart > Pominville at 1 RW. That's the comparison.

 

My guess is that he's going to make more of a positive impact at 3C even with those wingers. Definitely not opposed to him getting someone else on his wing, but I'm not ruling out there being a large net + with the lines as currently constructed.

 

Fair enough. I just don't want people to expect Reinhart to be able to do something Eichel and O'Reilly aren't even being asked to do. I'd just like to see our 3 best wingers (Okposo, Kane, and Pominville) each paired up with one of our centers in order to create balanced lines that are all a threat to score. I imagine it will happen, but not until one of the younger guys steps up and either takes Pominville's place on Eichel's RW or Kane's spot on the LW. We'll see if/when it happens.

[Thorner]

Fair enough. I just don't want people to expect Reinhart to be able to do something Eichel and O'Reilly aren't even being asked to do. I'd just like to see our 3 best wingers (Okposo, Kane, and Pominville) each paired up with one of our centers in order to create balanced lines that are all a threat to score. I imagine it will happen, but not until one of the younger guys steps up and either takes Pominville's place on Eichel's RW or Kane's spot on the LW. We'll see if/when it happens.

I agree, I'd love to see that. Like many I've wanted to see Kane on Reinhart's LW for a long time.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Thorny

[Pokey Jones]

Does anyone think Pouliot has actually played well enough for a spot on ANY line? Since they acquired him he might get one, but he certainly hasn't earned one. 

[North Buffalo]

Does anyone think Pouliot has actually played well enough for a spot on ANY line? Since they acquired him he might get one, but he certainly hasn't earned one. 

True, this I agree with... if not... worth a  looksey... Non of the young Sabres are stepping up... And if the Sabres don't take a step forward this year... it will a least be entertaining hockey as they learn the new system and there is a lot of talent coming out next year... so who knows.  One thing is for sure... I think I can finally watch them this year without being bored.