2018 - 2019 Lineup

[tom webster]

Chicago is almost in a perfect spot to retool and like I said, give Buffalo three Cups and I’ll take a couple of down years.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

And where is Chicago? (and don't say ...in Illinois).

They have enjoyed remarkable success in the past decade, but are on the downswing and will need to make decisions soon as to what to do with aging vets.  A rebuild is coming and soon.

[Weave]

Every team will cycle downward. It is inevitable.  Chicago has several cups for their effort.  If you are going to dis what Chicago is, you are ignoring the upside prior to the inevitable downturn.

[Thorner]

56 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Can you name any potential centers who "could" be available and would be worth giving up a 1st rounder for? 

I never like this argument because it's seemingly always a player coming in out of nowhere involved in these deals. No one saw Skinner coming to Buffalo, particularly at the puttance we gave up to get him.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

3 cups in the last 9 years?  I'm guessing most people would love that, even with the recent struggles.

I'm talking about now, they have the same core pretty much. Is it that they ran out of depth in the ranks? Just asking out of curiosity.

And yes, I would take even one cup but why not 4,5,6?  If we use the draft picks and continue building our depth, it is possible we could have one or more before those picks even hit the NHL. Smart trades and FA signings could get us to a level of domination for years to come. And just think while players like McDavid, Matthews, Pettersson, etc will likely still be around, others like Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares, etc won't be.

[shrader]

1 minute ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I'm talking about now, they have the same core pretty much. Is it that they ran out of depth in the ranks? Just asking out of curiosity.

And yes, I would take even one cup but why not 4,5,6?  If we use the draft picks and continue building our depth, it is possible we could have one or more before those picks even hit the NHL. Smart trades and FA signings could get us to a level of domination for years to come. And just think while players like McDavid, Matthews, Pettersson, etc will likely still be around, others like Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares, etc won't be.

That same core was the age of our current one pretty damn close to when the previously mentioned 9 year stretch started.  If you want to compare the present day Blackhawks to the current Sabres, it doesn't get much more apples-to-oranges than that.

So if you want to rewind to their start and look at moves they made back then, it would probably be more interesting.  Someone else might have more time to study it in detail, but it does look like they held onto 1st round picks as much as possible.  2015 (traded for Vermette) and 2016 (traded for package included Andrew Ladd) were the only years they didn't have a 1st round pick.  That's the timeframe for picks that would be helping today's team, but at the same time, they did walk away with the Cup in 2015.

The main thing that sticks out to me looking over their trade history is that they made a ton of deal over that time.  So you can get to success even while shuffling a ton of pieces.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I'm talking about now, they have the same core pretty much. Is it that they ran out of depth in the ranks? Just asking out of curiosity.

And yes, I would take even one cup but why not 4,5,6?  If we use the draft picks and continue building our depth, it is possible we could have one or more before those picks even hit the NHL. Smart trades and FA signings could get us to a level of domination for years to come. And just think while players like McDavid, Matthews, Pettersson, etc will likely still be around, others like Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares, etc won't be.

The way the NHL is now with parity by design then it is unlikely that a team will be able to win that many cups in a relatively short span.  Look at Basstan ... pretty much same core over the last 10, or so, years and 1 cup.  Chicago ...  3.  Pittsgurgh ... 3, including 2 in a row.  LA ... 2 in 10.  Washington finally has 1.

[shrader]

Just now, New Scotland (NS) said:

The way the NHL is now with parity by design then it is unlikely that a team will be able to win that many cups in a relatively short span.  Look at Basstan ... pretty much same core over the last 10, or so, years and 1 cup.  Chicago ...  3.  Pittsgurgh ... 3, including 2 in a row.  LA ... 2 in 10.  Washington finally has 1.

If your goal is 4-6 Cups, failure is essentially guaranteed.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

15 minutes ago, shrader said:

That same core was the age of our current one pretty damn close to when the previously mentioned 9 year stretch started.  If you want to compare the present day Blackhawks to the current Sabres, it doesn't get much more apples-to-oranges than that.

So if you want to rewind to their start and look at moves they made back then, it would probably be more interesting.  Someone else might have more time to study it in detail, but it does look like they held onto 1st round picks as much as possible.  2015 (traded for Vermette) and 2016 (traded for package included Andrew Ladd) were the only years they didn't have a 1st round pick.  That's the timeframe for picks that would be helping today's team, but at the same time, they did walk away with the Cup in 2015.

The main thing that sticks out to me looking over their trade history is that they made a ton of deal over that time.  So you can get to success even while shuffling a ton of pieces.

Thanks for that info. And it does seem as though they kept the picks (mostly) and IIRC a good number of their trades were lateral such as the Saad trade. Some were even in players but less in contract.

In some ways we can all say we're right. No one really knows what would work best and only time will tell if anything works out.

I want to be more like the Wings were over 25yrs and have more opportunities to get those cups and piss more people off when we make it to the playoffs "again" every year.

[inkman]

7 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Thanks for that info. And it does seem as though they kept the picks (mostly) and IIRC a good number of their trades were lateral such as the Saad trade. Some were even in players but less in contract.

In some ways we can all say we're right. No one really knows what would work best and only time will tell if anything works out.

I want to be more like the Wings were over 25yrs and have more opportunities to get those cups and piss more people off when we make it to the playoffs "again" every year.

While admirable, those are some lofty expectations 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

43 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

The way the NHL is now with parity by design then it is unlikely that a team will be able to win that many cups in a relatively short span.  Look at Basstan ... pretty much same core over the last 10, or so, years and 1 cup.  Chicago ...  3.  Pittsgurgh ... 3, including 2 in a row.  LA ... 2 in 10.  Washington finally has 1.

I agree and was just presenting the possibility (as I put on my blinders). I just think it's more likely by using the 1st rd picks than trading them all away, that's all.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

26 minutes ago, inkman said:

While admirable, those are some lofty expectations 

I'm glad you think it's admirable...and lofty yes. They also won 4 cups in an 11yr span during those years (and lost 1). 

[Thorner]

An 18 year old defenceman is 5th in team scoring. That's insane to me. For a few reasons. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Thorny

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

35 minutes ago, Thorny said:

An 18 year old defenceman is 5th in team scoring. That's insane to me. For a few reasons. 

Also insane, the 4th leading scorer is also a D-man and 24yrs old.

Boy, I'm coming around to the idea that we might need some forwards, eh?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

15 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Also insane, the 4th leading scorer is also a D-man and 24yrs old.

Boy, I'm coming around to the idea that we might need some forwards, eh?

Are you from the Great White North, eh?

In think Thorny is, but he hides in the bushes well.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I'm glad you think it's admirable...and lofty yes. They also won 4 cups in an 11yr span during those years (and lost 1). 

Detroit was fantastic and probably the last example of a 'dynasty', but even they were not like the Canadiens of the late 70s, or the Islanders of the early 80s.  Even the great Oiler teams of the mid to late 80s had off years where they did not win the cup.

I would love the Sabres to end up like them, but it is less likely in today's NHL.

[shrader]

31 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Detroit was fantastic and probably the last example of a 'dynasty', but even they were not like the Canadiens of the late 70s, or the Islanders of the early 80s.  Even the great Oiler teams of the mid to late 80s had off years where they did not win the cup.

I would love the Sabres to end up like them, but it is less likely in today's NHL.

That dynasty was built on the backs of three hall of gamers (plus others who came and went). Jack, Rasmus, and Sam better keep growing. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Detroit was fantastic and probably the last example of a 'dynasty', but even they were not like the Canadiens of the late 70s, or the Islanders of the early 80s.  Even the great Oiler teams of the mid to late 80s had off years where they did not win the cup.

I would love the Sabres to end up like them, but it is less likely in today's NHL.

It won't happen. Finding late round gems like Zetterberg and Datsyuk not to mention Lidstrom in the second round all the while having your franchise player in the fold acquiring all-stars on the cheap because they have foregone loot for a cup just doesn't seem realistic anymore. It was once in a lifetime type of situation. Good for them. Let's hope we can somehow squeeze one cup out of our core. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Are you from the Great White North, eh?

In think Thorny is, but he hides in the bushes well.

No. Every once in awhile it just comes out from years of going to Canada, being around the people alot, and living on the edge. Sometimes I just like to fake it.

Ex wife had relatives there and I used to go fishing up there all the time with them. Georgian Bay area and all along Lake Ontario.

Edited January 5, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
typing in the dark

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Detroit was fantastic and probably the last example of a 'dynasty', but even they were not like the Canadiens of the late 70s, or the Islanders of the early 80s.  Even the great Oiler teams of the mid to late 80s had off years where they did not win the cup.

I would love the Sabres to end up like them, but it is less likely in today's NHL.

Detroit has no reason to be in this conversation.  Their 1st trip to the Finals since expansion came in '95 right after the 1st lockout.  The vast majority of their success came in the salary escallation years when they were the only of the big spending clubs to also invest heavily in European scouting.  Illitch, Delvano  & Holland were masterful at navigating that landscape.  Their being horrible from the 60's through the '80's didn't hurt that run any either.  (Hello, Yserman.)

But they've done nothing after their b-t-b trips vs the Pens nearly a decade ago.

 

 

[Samson's Flow]

After seeing tonight's game, I'm ready to give Samson his own line and see if Skinner/Tage chemistry continues.

Let's try this going forward for a bit:

Skinner-Eichel-Tage

Sheary-Rodrigues-Reinhart

Pommer/Smith-Casey-Okposo

Girgs-Larsson-Sobotka 

 

If we can get two lines rolling as a scoring threat that changes our prospects for this year. 

 

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, Samson's Flow said:

After seeing tonight's game, I'm ready to give Samson his own line and see if Skinner/Tage chemistry continues.

Let's try this going forward for a bit:

Skinner-Eichel-Tage

Sheary-Rodrigues-Reinhart

Pommer/Smith-Casey-Okposo

Girgs-Larsson-Sobotka 

 

If we can get two lines rolling as a scoring threat that changes our prospects for this year. 

 

I still believe the proper fix is to get an actual 2nd C.

Lacking that 2C, I am willing to break up the Eichel line but would go exactly the opposite way:

Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Sobotka - Thompson

Smith - Larsson - Okposo

Girgensons - Mittelstadt - Rodrigues.

The reasons being:

1. Sheary has shown historically he can be a useful complement to a good C.  Reinhart & Eichel have chemistry & Sheary knows where to be when Sam gets low & sends the puck back to the slot.  IMHO, though Reinhart alone will help Sheary score some, Chi-Chi won't.    There'll be a slight adjustment for Eichel as Sheary goes to different spots than Skinner, but he'll pick it up & those 2 play together often in OT.  

2. Skinner has shown he can create his own chances.  (2 goals generated in large part by his skating once he got the puck off nice work from teammates in 3 games.)  Getting to play against the opponent's 2nd best should only make that creativity more evident.  Sobotka is reasonable in his own end & has a very nice outlet pass.  (Had 2 great ones tonight, 1 of which resulted in McCabe's shortie.)  Sobotka is NOT "where offense goes to die," he is "where scoring chances go to die."  (Flailing wildly on the late feed from Rodrigues being the proof of that.)  Thompson would likely complement Jeff as well, much as he did on that 1st goal.

3.  Though I'd rather have a "shutdown line" of Zemgus-Larry-Okie, that line with Smith on it has looked good since being brought together & has generated a goal each of the last 2 games.  Wouldn't be as solidinit's own end, but probably more than offsets that by their ability to finish in the other end.

4.  Mittelstadt has gotten scoring chances since getting the "demotion" to the 4th line.  Imagine how many more he could get having a hockey player on his RW rather than the corpse of Pominville.  Having Z bringing the heavy forecheck also helps & he'd have 2 defensively responsible wingers that can skate with him.

 

Again, would rather have a useful 2C, so Sheary & Tage could be part of what they should be - a useful 2nd line.

And, let's not get too giddy over this W.  It was against arguably the worst team in the east & had Kincaid gotten a smidge more of Smith's shot & Hutton a smidge less of the 1v1 against Bogosian, the Sabres are down 2-1 rather than up by that score.

And I am perfectly fine at this point with giving Pominville the Moulson treatment.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And, let's not get too giddy over this W.  It was against arguably the worst team in the east & had Kincaid gotten a smidge more of Smith's shot & Hutton a smidge less of the 1v1 against Bogosian, the Sabres are down 2-1 rather than up by that score.

A good point. And I agree on your stance re: acquiring that 2C.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Samson's Flow said:

After seeing tonight's game, I'm ready to give Samson his own line and see if Skinner/Tage chemistry continues.

Let's try this going forward for a bit:

Skinner-Eichel-Tage

Sheary-Rodrigues-Reinhart

Pommer/Smith-Casey-Okposo

Girgs-Larsson-Sobotka 

 

If we can get two lines rolling as a scoring threat that changes our prospects for this year. 

 

Why not 3?

? Eichel ?

Skinner ? Thompson

Sheary ? Reinhart

 

[Thorner]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Why not 3?

? Eichel ?

Skinner ? Thompson

Sheary ? Reinhart

 

I like this lineup, because while it looks like it has a lot of question marks, on closer inspection they may not be all that difficult to fill, especially relative to the key positions we already have filled in, on Of/De/fence. 

Mittelstadt should be the answer to one, and finding a 3C that can produce between Sheary and Reinhart, with the matchups they'd get, shouldn't be too hard. 

There's two question marks beside Eichel, but the strength of our forward prospects is on the wing. And as we've seen, Eichel will elevate those around him. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Thorny