2018 - 2019 Lineup

[wsam4031]

After day one of UFA and ROR trade. Still could be more moves, but I like this team better then last years already.

 

Sobatka, Eichel, Reinhart

Sheary, Mitts, Okposo

Wilson, Bergland, Thompson

Girgensons, ERod, Pommer

 

McCabe, Risto

Scandella, Dahlin

Guhle, Bogo

 

 

Hutton

Ullmark

 

extra- Larsson, Baptiste, Nelson

If Sobotka plays on the first line wing we are done. The guys is trash. He may be able to stink it up on the 4th line with Girgs and Larson

[LGR4GM]

The shotty thing about these lines is that they're SLOW. Not slow, SLOW. Berglund, Sobotka, Okposo, Reinhart, Pominville, Larsson is a lot of turtles

I will say that in the case of Reinhart and Okposo, they can play fast. 

[Randall Flagg]

I will say that in the case of Reinhart and Okposo, they can play fast. 

Reinhart's fine, Okposo maybe could have a while ago but he was a 4th liner bordering on non-NHLer for large swaths of the past year. 

[darksabre]

Reinhart's fine, Okposo maybe could have a while ago but he was a 4th liner bordering on non-NHLer for large swaths of the past year. 

You've gotta give Okposo a chance to redeem himself. Dude almost died last off-season and is hopefully going to have a much more productive off-season this year.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes in to camp lighter as has been the trend around the league. 

[TrueBlueGED]

You've gotta give Okposo a chance to redeem himself. Dude almost died last off-season and is hopefully going to have a much more productive off-season this year.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes in to camp lighter as has been the trend around the league. 

 

Thing is, his decline in play pre-dated the injury. He's on a 3-year slide now.

Edited July 2, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[shrader]

I want to back this up for a second as I try to keep up in my mind with the bodies in/out so far.  Am I missing something with this list, potential AHL guys in parentheses?

 

Forwards out:

O'Reilly

Pouliot

Nolan (I kind of want to put him in parentheses)

(Fasching)

 

Forwards in:
Sheary

Bergland

Sobotka

(Thompson)

 

Defense out:

Gorges

Antipin

 

Defense in:
Dahlin

Hunwick

 

 

I kind of want to list Mittlestadt as an addition as well, but I'll leave that out.  It also leads to possibly adding someone like Guhle.  Anyway, I'm just trying to sort this out from a pure body count point of view.  And then there are the goalies, but I'd say that one is much more clear so I won't bother to list it.

[darksabre]

Thing is, his decline in play pre-dated the injury. He's on a 3-year slide now.

It's possible he's done. If he is, then I expect Botterill to do something about that.

 

I'm willing to see what he can do with the kids and possibly a good off-season. 

[WildCard]

Why does everyone have Mittelstadt at 2C and not Reinhart? You think our 19 year old rookie straight from the NCAA gets 2C over a guy with 2 years NHL experience?

 

And I don't think we're close to done. There's still a lot of garbage to clean up on the bottom lines and the blue line

Edited July 2, 2018 by WildCard

[Randall Flagg]

You've gotta give Okposo a chance to redeem himself. Dude almost died last off-season and is hopefully going to have a much more productive off-season this year.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes in to camp lighter as has been the trend around the league. 

I mean, if I'm the GM, he gets a top 12 spot, so I'm not withholding a chance. 

 

But I'm not going to expect him to be the first already-slow (I should stop using that word because it's a point of contention for literally everyone in some way, but I mean slow as in a guy who does not use his speed as an asset in the NHL, he got there for other reasons, which is by definition Okposo) player to get his legs back after losing them, and his hands, which were bad in the first place, just got worse when it was even easier for opponents to close in from all sides. His impact on our team was worse than you'd want from a 4th liner. In the same vain as my "good versus "good" players" rant in the other thread, there comes a point where actual NHL talent has actual easily-measurable effects on their teams and "good" players like current Okposo actively make every teammate and the team worse by virtue of existing on the ice. Bad teams have a lot of these players like we do, good teams simply don't. Good teams acquire and keep good players and bad teams trade them away for "good" players. 

[darksabre]

I mean, if I'm the GM, he gets a top 12 spot, so I'm not withholding a chance.

 

But I'm not going to expect him to be the first already-slow (I should stop using that word because it's a point of contention for literally everyone in some way, but I mean slow as in a guy who does not use his speed as an asset in the NHL, he got there for other reasons, which is by definition Okposo) player to get his legs back after losing them, and his hands, which were bad in the first place, just got worse when it was even easier for opponents to close in from all sides. His impact on our team was worse than you'd want from a 4th liner. In the same vain as my "good versus "good" players" rant in the other thread, there comes a point where actual NHL talent has actual easily-measurable effects on their teams and "good" players like current Okposo actively make every teammate and the team worse by virtue of existing on the ice. Bad teams have a lot of these players like we do, good teams simply don't. Good teams acquire and keep good players and bad teams trade them away for "good" players.

Then let's hope Botterill finds a way to move him as a salary dump.

[Randall Flagg]

Then let's hope Botterill finds a way to move him as a salary dump.

I would try to do this even if he was  16-17 Okposo, just because of the goddamn length of the contract.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[darksabre]

I would try to do this even if he was 16-17 Okposo, just because of the goddamn length of the contract.

I think if I'm Botterill I'm looking to a team like Ottawa to execute some cap dumps an maybe move one of our 2019 1sts.

[TrueBlueGED]

It's possible he's done. If he is, then I expect Botterill to do something about that.

 

I'm willing to see what he can do with the kids and possibly a good off-season. 

 

Sure, I am too. There's no reason not to give him every opportunity to succeed, and every reason to try to get him to at least be serviceable. But much like Moulson, I don't expect him to be able to take advantage of it. I don't think he's Moulson-level finished, but I think he's "I don't want him anywhere near my best players at even strength" finished.

[Randall Flagg]

I think if I'm Botterill I'm looking to a team like Ottawa to execute some cap dumps an maybe move one of our 2019 1sts.

Which cap dumps are you interested in moving? Please consult the Encyclopedia of bad Sabres contracts and cite the page number for reference. 

 

Bogosian, Okposo, Pominville, Sobotka, Berglund, Moulson are sub-replacement level (except Berglund who has bad term and is merely replacement-level) and account for 30 million dollars of cap space for the next year :O 

Sure, I am too. There's no reason not to give him every opportunity to succeed, and every reason to try to get him to at least be serviceable. But much like Moulson, I don't expect him to be able to take advantage of it. I don't think he's Moulson-level finished, but I think he's "I don't want him anywhere near my best players at even strength" finished.

I think Okposo has a decent run of 16-17 Moulsons left in him. Do as you say at ES, and get 40 points out of him because of the power play unit.

 

The reason I'm up in arms about it is because we're in this string of coaches on this team that will not leverage Kyle as such, but will staple him by Jack for 40 games next season as we get angry Jack only generates the a league-leading percentage of teams goals again for a 76 point pace watching all his buddies play with superstars.

[darksabre]

Which cap dumps are you interested in moving? Please consult the Encyclopedia of bad Sabres contracts and cite the page number for reference. 

 

Bogosian, Okposo, Pominville, Sobotka, Berglund, Moulson are sub-replacement level (except Berglund who has bad term and is merely replacement-level) and account for 30 million dollars of cap space for the next year :o

Okposo, if he's done, might be #1 on that list.

 

Pominville is a UFA after this year so I don't want to give anything up to make that happen. 

 

Sobotka isn't a long term problem. Another team might even take him.

 

And Berglund's cap hit isn't atrocious even if the term is gross. 

 

Bogosian is (STILL) only 27 and he spends half the year on IR anyway. Plus we're not dying on Defense with respect to contracts, so he's really not a massive problem for me. 

 

We've got enough cap to sign Reinhart and Dahlin and that's all that really matters this year. 

 

So, Okposo if we think he's done.

[dudacek]

Which cap dumps are you interested in moving? Please consult the Encyclopedia of bad Sabres contracts and cite the page number for reference. 

Bogosian, Okposo, Pominville, Sobotka, Berglund, Moulson are sub-replacement level (except Berglund who has bad term and is merely replacement-level) and account for 30 million dollars of cap space for the next year :O 

I think Okposo has a decent run of 16-17 Moulsons left in him. Do as you say at ES, and get 40 points out of him because of the power play unit.

 

The reason I'm up in arms about it is because we're in this string of coaches on this team that will not leverage Kyle as such, but will staple him by Jack for 40 games next season as we get angry Jack only generates the a league-leading percentage of teams goals again for a 76 point pace watching all his buddies play with superstars.

When I think of replacement level, I think, basically, a minor leaguer who is filling a space because an NHLer is not available.

Are you saying that none of the above players are able to contribute anything more than what we should expect from Seth Griffith or Matt Tennyson?

[Randall Flagg]

When I think of replacement level, I think, basically, a minor leaguer who is filling a space because an NHLer is not available.

Are you saying that none of the above players are able to contribute anything more than what we should expect from Seth Griffith or Matt Tennyson?

I don't use Seth Griffith and Matt Tennyson as replacement level, they are just bad players that don't have bad contracts keeping them in the lineup. 

Those players have different tiers of bad, so I shouldn't paint them with the same brush. What I've read and seen indicates that Berglund is the best one, with the second-longest contract. Not a single player on that list makes a bad team perform better, except maybe Berglund, who we haven't seen on a bad team yet. We do know that roughly speaking, Berglund doesn't make players on GOOD teams better or worse, and has a Zemgus-like curbing of all events, good and bad.

[Doctor of Philhousley]

Which cap dumps are you interested in moving? Please consult the Encyclopedia of bad Sabres contracts and cite the page number for reference.

 

Bogosian, Okposo, Pominville, Sobotka, Berglund, Moulson are sub-replacement level (except Berglund who has bad term and is merely replacement-level) and account for 30 million dollars of cap space for the next year :O

 

I think Okposo has a decent run of 16-17 Moulsons left in him. Do as you say at ES, and get 40 points out of him because of the power play unit.

 

The reason I'm up in arms about it is because we're in this string of coaches on this team that will not leverage Kyle as such, but will staple him by Jack for 40 games next season as we get angry Jack only generates the a league-leading percentage of teams goals again for a 76 point pace watching all his buddies play with superstars.

To take on these contracts you must be certain the player is better than available replacement. I don't come armed with fancy stats, so my question is 'is there any evidence to support sobotka or Bergland are superior to Baptiste, Bailey, Smith, & heck even Nylander.

[Tondas]

By all accounts, Berglund is a team-first, great guy to have in the room.  He's also a Swede.  Maybe he can mentor Rasmus for the first few years (maybe even do the Moulson-Eichel billet thing).  If he can help Rasmus live up to his potential, then I think his on-the-ice-stats are a bonus.

[That Aud Smell]

By all accounts, Berglund is a team-first, great guy to have in the room.  He's also a Swede.  Maybe he can mentor Rasmus for the first few years (maybe even do the Moulson-Eichel billet thing).  If he can help Rasmus live up to his potential, then I think his on-the-ice-stats are a bonus.

 

I think this is low-key one of the reasons he's been brought in.

[Randall Flagg]

To take on these contracts you must be certain the player is better than available replacement. I don't come armed with fancy stats, so my question is 'is there any evidence to support sobotka or Bergland are superior to Baptiste, Bailey, Smith, & heck even Nylander.

I can't do as deep a dive into this as I want to, because I'm in general uncomfortable with leaning on Blues fans I don't know, but I have to travel tomorrow. 

 

My guess is that Berglund is still going to be a good bottom six piece, while that's possible but less likely for Vlad. I am not high on 3 of those guys, and am not convinced Baptiste, who I think can develop into a good fourth liner, is better than Patrik. 

[Randall Flagg]

I'd be surprised if Botts didn't add another defenseman (and would welcome shipping out the mediocre depth behind new defenseman for more forwards as I still see Larsson and Pominville in too many lineup mocks)

[dudacek]

I don’t know about fancy stats, but Sobotka did put up 31 points playing 17 minutes a night for a good Blues team.

A majority of his time was spent on a shutdown line with Stastny, he also played some centre in the bottom six.

Berglund mostly played wing on line three, about 16 minutes a game, but seemed to play with just about everyone, just about anywhere. He scored 17 goals in that role. They both win face offs.

 

On the surface they don’t look like boat anchors.

Edited July 2, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

I don’t know about fancy stats, but Sobotka did put up 31 points playing 17 minutes a night for a good Blues team.

A majority of his time was spent on a shutdown line with Stastny, he also played some centre in the bottom six.

Berglund mostly played wing on line three, about 16 minutes a game, but seemed to play with just about everyone, just about anywhere He scored 17 goals in that role. The both win face offs.

 

On the surface they don’t look like boat anchors.

I don't have proof that you're wrong, but my needle is not moved when Pominville of this year and Moulson of last both outscored Vlad :lol:

 

(I will do my best to learn everything I can about both of these guys when I get the time)

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

I don't have proof that you're wrong, but my needle is not moved when Pominville of this year and Moulson of last both outscored Vlad :lol:

 

(I will do my best to learn everything I can about both of these guys when I get the time)

My memories of Vlad is that he was real to play against.

Blues-watchers are saying that was lacking from his game last year.

 

When I think of Patrik Berglund, I think Jochen Hecht, a useful, versatile top-nine guy you can slot anywhere in the top nine.

Apparently he was also one of the best people in that organization.

 

Again, they may have fallen off a cliff last year like Pominville did, but I don’t see the evidence of that in conventional numbers.