2018 - 2019 Lineup

[dudacek]

@Thorny was Bogosian’s surgery something that he may not recover from?

I agree it is foolish to count on him as a top 3, but isn’t the book on Bogosian 20 good games, 20 bad games, 20 games where he holds his own, and 20 games on IR?

 

[Derrico]

I think the philosophy is going to be homegrown and bringing guys in slowly.  Our last gm wanted to bring in a bunch if guys to fix deficiencies.  I don't care for how that worked out.  Keep a spot open for Guhle and Pilut for later this season or to open 2019 please. 

[nfreeman]

Holy mackerel this last exchange has me psyched for the season to start.

We all agree the D is going to be greatly improved, innit?

 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Semantics I suppose. They aren’t new faces, but they are players who barely played last year. Maybe changes isn’t the right word, maybe it’s reasons to think we might be better.

In football, you read things like “the Bills expect to be much-improved at LB with the return of Sam Cowart who missed virtually all of last season...” and “big changes at QB where Aaron Rodgers takes over under centre after three years of packing a clipboard...”

Not sure why Bogosian and Guhle don’t parallel those scenarios.

Umm, we do remember that Cowart was never more than a shell of his former self after the knee injury, right?

Sadly, really expect Bogosian to parallel that scenario.

 

[SwampD]

29 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Holy mackerel this last exchange has me psyched for the season to start.

We all agree the D is going to be greatly improved, innit?

 

I'm with you. Bogo (he's playing the full season) and Scandella are the old men at only 28! The rest are still so young. I'm hoping that the game will start to slow down for the rest and we see less brain farts, especially of the McCabe types. Also, year two with Housley will hopefully come together a little more. Hell, the blue line can't score less than last year, Can they?

Edited July 21, 2018 by SwampD

[LTS]

8 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

If Botterill thinks Matt Hunwick was an upgrade addition we're f*cked. 

Guhle and Nelson are part of last years' group even if they didn't start here last year. Neither has shown to be a legitimate NHL defenseman yet, so as far as anyone on planet earth knows, there's no difference yet. 

My whole point is that NHL teams, on principle, have this exact same stuff happening to their rosters, every, single, offseason, and also make moves to make their team better on top of them. We are just sitting here, patting ourselves on the back without these steps having been taken. If it works out, great, and if it doesn't, it looks as monumentally stupid as every sh*t season we've had does.

Who's patting themselves on the back?

8 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I would have given Pateryn a million more than he got. I would have been in on a couple other FA names I don't remember. 

But that's not the point. There was not a single rumor about us "being in on" Scandella until the trade was posted by the blue checkmarks. 

It is not hockey code that there need to have been whispers and rumors for months for the move, trade, addition to have any possibility of happening. I don't get this take at all. 

No, but without a rumor or an actual move being made anything else is the most made up BS you can get.  Okay, we can all rant on about a move should have been made but to rant about a move that should have been made without any evidence that a move could have been made, let alone one that benefits the Sabres is preposterous. 

7 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I mean even when the Sheary trade happened it was understood that Hunwick was a cap dump which let us get a guy with more ES goals than any Sabre but Eichel over the last two years for a 4th round pick, and now he's a shrewd addition that will make us better? I GET that maybe he performs better than Gorges, but this possibility being the default take blows my mind! 

I'm done ranting now. I should also probably leave this thread alone because I get the sense the negativity bothers people. 

Negativity?  This is what I am trying to figure out.  But all I have come up with is that Jason Botterill should have done something to improve the defense more than he has so far but the fact that it has not happened is purely his fault and of no fault of the other 30 general managers and the countless players who either did not want to trade or sign in Buffalo that would have solved the problem.

If I am misinterpreting your assessment then please say so.  i asked what trade/signing should the Sabres have made.  You responded with something about rumors.  I included rumors as a way of saying even the RUMORs (which are mostly garbage) are something I am willing to converse upon.

 

[LGR4GM]

On 7/20/2018 at 4:58 PM, Randall Flagg said:

The bizarre "what else was there to be done? They've done everything they could, have you heard the rumor mill?" attitude here is new both the posters expressing it and this place in general, and has to be a reaction to the negativity that the reality of our team being awful and our attempts to address it being controversial, or arguable in quantity, has drummed up. 

 

How about, what has any team done in the last little while here? Outside of the Tavares signing and the Lindholm/Hanifin for Hamilton trade what has happened in the entire league? There have been almost no other trades of note. The UFA pool was meh anyways. Here's the list of NHL trades https://www.nhl.com/news/2018-19-nhl-trades/c-289968698 

The only 3 that seem interesting are ROR, Hamilton, and Sheary. We were involved in 2 of the 3. I guess we could throw in the Galchenyuk trade and say 2 of 4. 

[dudacek]

I am curious as to how much we were in on both ends of the Flames/Canes deal.

The Athletic reported we definitely talked to Carolina about O’Reilly. You would imagine we also talked to the Flames about an O’Reilly/Hamilton deal as well.

 

[Tondas]

I would really like the 2018 team to NOT have either Zemgus or Larsson.  That would make me feel good that the culture is really changing.  We know what they bring.  It's time for giving some of the prospects a chance. 

Good luck for JBOT to get anything for either.  Most teams could wait for them to be demoted and pick them up for nothing. 

[TrueBlueGED]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:35 PM, Derrico said:

I think the philosophy is going to be homegrown and bringing guys in slowly.  Our last gm wanted to bring in a bunch if guys to fix deficiencies.  I don't care for how that worked out.  Keep a spot open for Guhle and Pilut for later this season or to open 2019 please. 

I agree that's the approach. It has worked elsewhere and it can certainly work here. But let's not pretend it's evidence that Botterill has worked to improve the defense in any meaningful way. 

[TrueBlueGED]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:30 PM, dudacek said:

@Thorny was Bogosian’s surgery something that he may not recover from?

I agree it is foolish to count on him as a top 3, but isn’t the book on Bogosian 20 good games, 20 bad games, 20 games where he holds his own, and 20 games on IR?

 

In other words, Bogosian will notably improve the defense for...20 games. Pardon us for not busting out the pom poms on that one. 

At the end of the day, we're still looking at a defense comprised of 2nd and 3rd pairing players all playing a full slot above their talent level with 1st and 2nd pairing roles, respectively. To the extent that Botterill has done anything, he has increased competition for the 3rd pair. Unless somebody is a complete revelation, there won't be much impact in the standings from increasing depth when the top of the position is the problem. 

[nfreeman]

There are a number of guys who have shown enough flashes such that they are contenders to be legit 2nd pair NHL defensemen by the 2nd half of this season.  I am including McCabe, Bogo and Pilut in that group, along with Dahlin of course and Guhle too if you like.

The top 3 are, come HOHW, going to be Dahlin, Scandy and Ristolainen.  I think Dahlin is going to be great and a major force by the 2nd half.  Ristolainen and Scandy will be #2 and #3.  Those are 2 legit good NHL defensemen in those slots. The other guys are going to compete to participate in, and for ranking in, the rotation.  

They need someone like Guhle or Pilut to break out, or a big bounceback from McCabe or Bogo, or really a couple of those guys to come through.  And Flagg is right that every team has guys in similar situations.  But it’s also true that every year there are a number of teams that take a leap.  

A lot could happen if they get good goaltending.

 

[pi2000]

13 hours ago, nfreeman said:

There are a number of guys who have shown enough flashes such that they are contenders to be legit 2nd pair NHL defensemen by the 2nd half of this season.  I am including McCabe, Bogo and Pilut in that group, along with Dahlin of course and Guhle too if you like.

The top 3 are, come HOHW, going to be Dahlin, Scandy and Ristolainen.  I think Dahlin is going to be great and a major force by the 2nd half.  Ristolainen and Scandy will be #2 and #3.  Those are 2 legit good NHL defensemen in those slots. The other guys are going to compete to participate in, and for ranking in, the rotation.  

They need someone like Guhle or Pilut to break out, or a big bounceback from McCabe or Bogo, or really a couple of those guys to come through.  And Flagg is right that every team has guys in similar situations.  But it’s also true that every year there are a number of teams that take a leap.  

A lot could happen if they get good goaltending.

 

That seems to be the JBOT strategy....   throw enough s h i t at the wall and some if it will stick.

[Thorner]

Vogl had an article up on twitter today that mentioned, and he reinforced it in the comments, that the Sabres intend for Dahlin to play on the left. He said Scandella and Dahlin have their spots locked down on the left, and that Guhle, McCabe, Beaulieu, and Hunwick are fighting it out for the remaining spot. 

He said the right side of the depth chart is set:

Ristolainen

Bogosian

Nelson

---

Adequate right side?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Relying on Bogo is a huge mistake IMHO. I'm ok with Nelson is 6th slot, but when Bogo gets hurt, moving Nelson into the top 4 isn't a good solution.

[pi2000]

Nelson in the top 6 is sad.

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Relying on Bogo is a huge mistake IMHO. I'm ok with Nelson is 6th slot, but when Bogo gets hurt, moving Nelson into the top 4 isn't a good solution.

Agreed. I think what likely happens when Bogo goes down is that Dahlin moves over and Guhle comes up.

[Eleven]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Relying on Bogo is a huge mistake IMHO. I'm ok with Nelson is 6th slot, but when Bogo gets hurt, moving Nelson into the top 4 isn't a good solution.

That's a problem with relying on Nelson, not a problem with relying on Bogosian.  If he gets hurt, he gets hurt.  Until that happens, he's a fine player for a second pair.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agreed. I think what likely happens when Bogo goes down is that Dahlin moves over and Guhle comes up.

I'd say that's unlikely. If they are starting Dahlin on the left, my guess is they'd intend for him to stay there. 

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That's a problem with relying on Nelson, not a problem with relying on Bogosian.  If he gets hurt, he gets hurt.  Until that happens, he's a fine player for a second pair.

It's still a problem with relying on Bogosian. Because the injury is an inevitability. In other words, they have not adequately addressed the second pair RHD slot. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Thorny

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'd say that's unlikely. If they are starting Dahlin on the left, my guess is they'd intend for him to stay there. 

So, Tennyson? Or they move over one of the other lefties?

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So, Tennyson? Or they move over one of the other lefties?

To be honest, it's hard to say. I don't understand Botterill's stategy of relying on Bogosian in a top 4 role, understand it less with Dahlin being pencilled in on the left, and understand it even less given the chasm at RHD after Bogo.

I'd guess the latter, with one of Hunwick, McCabe, or Beaulieu shifting over to the right. I doubt they'd make Guhle play on his off hand. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Thorny

[CallawaySabres]

Bogo will not miss any significant time this year...book it. He will also turn out to be comeback player of the year for this team.

[erickompositör72]

I know this type of optimism is borderline delusional, but-

 

Any chance JBot/Wowie are privy to some medical/physio information that makes them confident Bogo is good to go for a full season?

 

I suggest this because I'm not totally convinced people on this board are smarter than JBot/Wowie

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Vogl had an article up on twitter today that mentioned, and he reinforced it in the comments, that the Sabres intend for Dahlin to play on the left. He said Scandella and Dahlin have their spots locked down on the left, and that Guhle, McCabe, Beaulieu, and Hunwick are fighting it out for the remaining spot. 

He said the right side of the depth chart is set:

Ristolainen

Bogosian

Nelson

---

Adequate right side?

The more we hear about the plans for the upcoming season, the more it seems they're hoping for another top 5 pick.

Would be willing to go along w/ that being adequate IF we knew Dahlin was pencilled into Bogosian's slot when Bogosian suffers the inevitable 20-40 game injury.  We can almost assuredly assume that's not the case, so unless they have a final waiver wire day like the Aisles had when the Sabres had their pick, it isn't adequate.

[pi2000]

10 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Bogo will not miss any significant time this year...book it. He will also turn out to be comeback player of the year for this team.