How much should Kane' s extension be?

[Doohicksie]

Tough pill for sure, but if anyone steps up in Rochester during the season that can backfill him, it would be better to get a pick or two for him than to get to next summer and he signs somewhere else and the Sabres get nothing.  I like his play, always skates hard, but if he can't fit into the cap box he will have to go.

[Taro T]

Tough pill for sure, but if anyone steps up in Rochester during the season that can backfill him, it would be better to get a pick or two for him than to get to next summer and he signs somewhere else and the Sabres get nothing.  I like his play, always skates hard, but if he can't fit into the cap box he will have to go.

Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

 

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.

[Doohicksie]

I hope he isn't.  But I've also gotten attached to players that got sold off at the deadline. I have to consider both options are possible.

[Drunkard]

So.... Kane, wonder if he would sign a short term (3-4 year deal at like 6.5) to stay in Buffalo. 

 

I think there's almost no chance Kane would sign for such a short term. Why would he? Guys in their 30's get handed 5-8 year deals like it's nothing while he's only 26. Given the fact that he's had injuries just about every season he's the last guy who should look at signing a short term deal.

If you'd rather see him walk rather than offer him an Okposo type deal, that's understandable. Suggesting he should leave 20 or so million on the table is basically saying we should let him walk or trade him though.

[TrueBlueGED]

Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

 

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.

My interpretation (maybe I'm projecting here) is that people aren't saying we *can't* afford him, rather, questioning the wisdom of doing so (for a variety of reasons).

[Drunkard]

Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

 

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.

 

I don't think he accept a low ball offer on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Drunkard

[LGR4GM]

I don't think he accept a low ball offers on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.

I might try for 6.25 x 5 and see if he bites. 

[Drunkard]

I might try for 6.25 x 5 and see if he bites. 

 

He won't. Why would a 26 year old UFA sign only a 5 year deal when guys in their lates 20's and even early 30's sign longer deals? He's not going to leave that much money on the table.

[LGR4GM]

He won't. Why would a 26 year old UFA sign only a 5 year deal when guys in their lates 20's and even early 30's sign longer deals? He's not going to leave that much money on the table.

Depends on how much he likes Buffalo, Jack, and the Sabres. Also we're all living in the parallel universe where because Buffalo means good things... so Because Buffalo. 

 

Why did the Falcons lose? Because Buffalo

Why did the Sabres get Jack for cheaper? Because Buffalo. 

[Doohicksie]

we're all living in the parallel universe where because Buffalo means good things... so Because Buffalo. 

 

Why did the Falcons lose? Because Buffalo

Why did the Sabres get Jack for cheaper? Because Buffalo. 

 

The dream that becomes a nightmare when you wake up!

[Drunkard]

Depends on how much he likes Buffalo, Jack, and the Sabres. Also we're all living in the parallel universe where because Buffalo means good things... so Because Buffalo. 

 

Why did the Falcons lose? Because Buffalo

Why did the Sabres get Jack for cheaper? Because Buffalo. 

 

I don't think the Sabres got Eichel for cheap at all. If he played this season and put up 80+ points and then signed for $10 million per then I'd probably say we got him for a discount. $10 million per season based on the two seasons he has played for us isn't a bargain right now, even though it could potentially become one.

 

You know who's got a bargain of a contract? Mark Schiefele. $6.1 million for a ppg 1st line center who will be in his prime for the duration of the contract. I'm hoping we can lock Reinhart up to a similar deal and he turns out to be just as productive.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Drunkard

[Radar]

I don't think he accept a low ball offer on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.

I think that's what it will take. Still worry about 7years. His off ice stuff still fresh in my mind but maybe by this trade deadline I'll feel more easy about that.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Again, whether Kane gets an extension from depends on almost to many factors to count such as:

1) is he playing well?  Has he developed real chemistry with Jack (or Sam)

2) Is he staying healthy

3) is the team playing well with him in the lineup and are we a contender for the playoffs

4) How are possible replacements like Nylander and Bailey doing on the farm?

5) What are his contract demand both in $ and term.

6) Even if those demands are "reasonable", can Jbot fit him in under the cap?

7) What are contending team offering in trade at the deadline?

 

etc....

 

Until some or all the answers to these questions (and others) become clearer, Jbot is in no hurry to re-sign him.  Also you can forget 7 year term.  Given his history of physical style of play, periodic bad attitude, inconsistent play and injuries, I doubt any sensible GM is going sign a deal to a 26 year old player with his history to a 7 year deal.  I'll be shocked if he get more then a 5 year deal.

[MattPie]

 

Until some or all the answers to these questions (and others) become clearer, Jbot is in no hurry to re-sign him.  Also you can forget 7 year term.  Given his history of physical style of play, periodic bad attitude, inconsistent play and injuries, I doubt any sensible GM is going sign a deal to a 26 year old player with his history to a 7 year deal.  I'll be shocked if he get more then a 5 year deal.

 

It only takes one non-sensible GM to offer $7M x 7 years, I think there's at least one out of 31.

[nfreeman]

Again, whether Kane gets an extension from depends on almost to many factors to count such as:

1) is he playing well?  Has he developed real chemistry with Jack (or Sam)

2) Is he staying healthy

3) is the team playing well with him in the lineup and are we a contender for the playoffs

4) How are possible replacements like Nylander and Bailey doing on the farm?

5) What are his contract demand both in $ and term.

6) Even if those demands are "reasonable", can Jbot fit him in under the cap?

7) What are contending team offering in trade at the deadline?

 

etc....

 

Until some or all the answers to these questions (and others) become clearer, Jbot is in no hurry to re-sign him.  Also you can forget 7 year term.  Given his history of physical style of play, periodic bad attitude, inconsistent play and injuries, I doubt any sensible GM is going sign a deal to a 26 year old player with his history to a 7 year deal.  I'll be shocked if he get more then a 5 year deal.

 

 

I agree with most of this, although I think the "Bailey as a potential replacement" concept (and you are far from alone in mentioning it) is crazy.  The guy hasn't made an NHL roster yet despite multiple chances -- there is almost zero possibility that he becomes a 25+ goal scorer.

[Taro T]

I don't think he accept a low ball offer on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.

And, especially if the actual $'s are front loaded, that's a reasonable, affordable deal that he can spend years 6 & 7 on LTIR either in Buffalo or elsewhere in a worst case.

[dudacek]

I agree with most of this, although I think the "Bailey as a potential replacement" concept (and you are far from alone in mentioning it) is crazy. The guy hasn't made an NHL roster yet despite multiple chances -- there is almost zero possibility that he becomes a 25+ goal scorer.

I'm not a big believer in Bailey, but in Mark Stone's 21-year-old season he had 4 goals in 19 games with Ottawa and 15 in 37 games in the AHL. Mike Hoffman 21 goals in the AHL and played just one game in the NHL . Pretty Bailey-eque numbers.

 

Stone broke out in the NHL in his third pro season. Hoffman spent most of his in the minors again, but each turned into NHL scorers.

 

I'm not counting on it, but it does happen.

Edited October 5, 2017 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Im willing to give basically all our prospects another year. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Bailey, Nylander, Mittelstud, or whomever.  It just matters whether or not Jbot thinks he can get similar production or even reasonable production from a cheaper option.  

 

I outlined our Cap situation for 2018-2019 in another thread and if we can't get out from under Bogo and Moulson next season, Jbot maybe forced to let either Lehner or Kane walk after this season.

[Pokey Jones]

It's all going to depend on how good Kane is this season. If he's great with jack they'll find a way, but if he's not yes, he might be a cap casualty. 

[Thorner]

Yup. The Sabres really do have the luxury of flexibility moving forward.

[Marions Piazza]

Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

 

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.

Ummm no.  What team is going to want him?  High cap hit vs lack of production...the only way the Sabres rid themselves of Moulson is a buyout or simply the end of the contract.

I don't think the Sabres got Eichel for cheap at all. If he played this season and put up 80+ points and then signed for $10 million per then I'd probably say we got him for a discount. $10 million per season based on the two seasons he has played for us isn't a bargain right now, even though it could potentially become one.

 

You know who's got a bargain of a contract? Mark Schiefele. $6.1 million for a ppg 1st line center who will be in his prime for the duration of the contract. I'm hoping we can lock Reinhart up to a similar deal and he turns out to be just as productive.

I guess the league is turning into, "hey, let's pay him for what we think he's going to do"  His rookie season was fine, and last year he was pretty darn good despite the high ankle sprain which probably nagged him all year.  He was almost a PPG player and we don't know if he was even 100% coming back from the injury.

 

He's going to be under the microscope for years, and the bar is now set very high, we will all accept nothing less than 80 point seasons and perennial playoff births.  I sure hope he has it in him.

[LGR4GM]

Moulsons actually dollar value is less then his cap. If a team wants to get to the cap floor, they could trade for Moulson.

[Marions Piazza]

Moulsons actually dollar value is less then his cap. If a team wants to get to the cap floor, they could trade for Moulson.

it's possible but unlikely.  I was positive we could've figured out a way to get Vegas to take Moulson off our hands to get to the floor and even they didn't bite.  IMO, if a team wants to get to the floor, they will throw a contract at an older vet who still has something left in the tank.  It sucks because i had the chance to meet Moulson and he's an awesome guy, but, i think that his career might be over soon.  he might get some one year deals here and there, thats about it though

[Drunkard]

I guess the league is turning into, "hey, let's pay him for what we think he's going to do"  His rookie season was fine, and last year he was pretty darn good despite the high ankle sprain which probably nagged him all year.  He was almost a PPG player and we don't know if he was even 100% coming back from the injury.

 

He's going to be under the microscope for years, and the bar is now set very high, we will all accept nothing less than 80 point seasons and perennial playoff births.  I sure hope he has it in him.

 

And that's all fine. I'd rather lock up our blue chip guys early rather than try to nickel and dime them early in their careers only to be forced to give them some huge deal at 27 where we're stuck with Moulsonesque production and an anchor contract in the final years or else watch them walk as some other team gives it to them. This approach essentially locks him up for his entire prime.

 

I'm not going to just pretend that Eichel is some huge bargain by only getting $10 million per season until he actually proves to be worth it though. He's been a good player for us so far, especially for his age. He hasn't been $10 million per season good though and even he has admitted as much. It's like the fans are so desperate for him to be good that many people are trying to convince themselves that he's already worth that kind of money. We want him to be as good as McDavid or Crosby or just a half tier below that but he hasn't proven it yet. Hopefully he will because given the contract he just signed he's gonna be with this team for the next decade.

 

For the record, I'm glad he's signed though. I think he'll be overpaid at the beginning but hope the contract proves to be a bargain by the end of it and I think it will. It's not a bargain yet though by any stretch and he won't be a bargain simply by being a PPG first line center.