dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 My reading of your posts leads me to believe if he earns $10 million in your eyes, he'll actually get something like $12 million, and you'll still be dissatisfied because he's making essentially as much as McDavid. Fair? Not at all. If Jack puts up numbers similar to McDavid next year then he will have earned a contract similar to McDavid's. McDavid scored 100 points and won the scoring title at age 20, took a franchise back to the playoffs and made a case for being the best player in hockey before signing his contract. Jack scored 57 points as his team imploded. Despite that, I would be willing to give Jack the second-biggest second contract in league history because I believe in him. Before the stupid Draisaitl contract, that number could have been as low as $7.5 million. I believe you've got to keep the franchise happy and that the Draisaitl deal changed the marketplace. But I also see a $10 million contract right now as a lot riskier for the Sabres than it would be for Eichel.
Thorner Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Not at all. If Jack puts up numbers similar to McDavid next year then he will have earned a contract similar to McDavid's. McDavid scored 100 points and won the scoring title at age 20, took a ###### franchise back to the playoffs and made a case for being the best player in hockey before signing his contract. Jack scored 57 points as his team imploded. Despite that, I would be willing to give Jack the second-biggest second contract in league history because I believe in him. Before the stupid Draisaitl contract, that number could have been as low as $7.5 million. I believe you've got to keep the franchise happy and that the Draisaitl deal changed the marketplace. But I also see a $10 million contract right now as a lot riskier for the Sabres than it would be for Eichel. Your posts on this matter have been exceptionally interesting. Well done. It seems as though there is a possibility both sides are amicable in the position that there is some mutually-accepted ambiguity as to what Eichel should be paid. As others have said, maybe both sides agree that this season is one for Jack to establish was he is for sure, not just on a ppg basis. But what happens if that ambiguity is not removed? What if unforeseen circumstance lead to the picture remaining somewhat clouded? Like another injury, perhaps? Clearly they can't agree on terms now. It's all well and good to say this season will sort that out. But what if it doesn't?
erickompositör72 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Despite that, I would be willing to give Jack the second-biggest second contract in league history because I believe in him. Before the stupid Draisaitl contract, that number could have been as low as $7.5 million. I don't think Draisaitl's contract was/is an issue at all. I think Jack thinks he's at least 11/12.5's the player McDavid is :P , and wants 11mil
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I don't think Draisaitl's contract was/is an issue at all. I think Jack thinks he's at least 11/12.5's the player McDavid is :P , and wants 11milI'd tend to agree - with you and Jack - but Jack has done nothing to back that up.Which is why it might be in his best interest not to sign until next summer. Edited September 5, 2017 by dudacek
Weave Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 OK, I'll be the wet blanket. There is a greater than 0 chance that Jack is shaping up to be the guy Pi is predicting up in Toronto. It had to be said.
Taro T Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 They Flyers had made the playoffs 3 consecutive season prior to that offer sheet, and the Stanley Cup two years before Nashville also dumped that contract before it became terrible. It's a miracle they not only found a suitor for it, but got PK back. Think about this if you're Jack. You go and sign an offer sheet for another team for leverage, costing them 4 1sts. Let's just say you get called out on it and Buffalo doesn't match. Guess what? Your prime years are now spent with a team that will be virtually crippled in the draft. So, no cheap and high end talent that will be coming in unless you hit the lottery. Also, because of your enormous salary, they will be crippled in free agency and in retaining their own talent, which likely isn't high as it is considering they offer sheeted him. So sure, you get $2-3m extra per year, but you have absolutely nobody to play with for the majority, if not all, of that time. That seems like the dumbest move ever Not the 1st time Moe-ray-all gave up a very good young D-man for a horrible contract. It's what they do.
Randall Flagg Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 OK, I'll be the wet blanket. There is a greater than 0 chance that Jack is shaping up to be the guy Pi is predicting up in Toronto. It had to be said. That the events of today lead you to say this is puzzling.
Pokey Jones Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 The comparisons between Eichel and McDavid should stop. Jack is really good, but McDavid is better. Jack has not shown he deserves the same money as McDavid so I can't fault the Sabres for not paying that if that is in fact what he is demanding. If they did, it screams desperation and they will be leveraged by every single agent and every single player from here to bankruptcy.
Taro T Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 There's a mere possibility another ice age happens via asteroid too. Point is there's no point freaking out about something that's never going to happen and historically has shown to barely ever happen You think a good team would lose 4 firsts for 4 years of Jack Eichel? If he could fit into their cap, absolutely. He should be excellent for at least 10 years after this next contract is signed (barring injuries). Would ANY of the 4 picks do that? Possible, but doubtful.
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 OK, I'll be the wet blanket. There is a greater than 0 chance that Jack is shaping up to be the guy Pi is predicting up in Toronto. It had to be said. Botterill would be foolish if he isn't considering that in negotiations.
Taro T Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Are we certain Botterill would be open to contract talks in season? I've heard of clubs not partaking in such... Until we know he isn't, it'd be safe to assume he is open to negotionating in season. I'd tend to agree - with you and Jack - but Jack has done nothing to back that up. Which is why it might be in his best interest not to sign until next summer. Agreed. But I still expect it to be in the Sabres best interest to get something worked out in September.
LGR4GM Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) So much speculation. If Jack thinks x then y. If Jack thinks y then potato. I'm just going to believe what Jack says and what Botterill says and then I'm going to enjoy the season. Edited September 5, 2017 by LGR4GM
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 So much speculation. It's great, isn't it? Finally getting some hockey talk again.
LGR4GM Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 It's great, isn't it? Finally getting some hockey talk again. It's not hockey talk. It's just rumor mongering second guessing everything our best player says so we can predict our own doomsday scenario. What if Jack secretly is lying, wants out of buffalo and wants 12.5 mil a year for 8 years or he'll sign an offer sheet and leave us! Or what if he's telling the truth and Botterill is too. Let's panic when we actually need too.
Weave Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 That the events of today lead you to say this is puzzling. I suppose if I were invested in the theory I could make an argument that the end of the season stuff and this stuff could be taken as a player only interested in the payoff. But not today. Today is uninteresting to me. And I'm not invested in the theory beyond that it is just one of many half baked, half formed thoughts that cross my mind in a given day. It's just another possibility to be tossed out with the rest of the speculation.
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 It's not hockey talk. It's just rumor mongering second guessing everything our best player says so we can predict our own doomsday scenario. What if Jack secretly is lying, wants out of buffalo and wants 12.5 mil a year for 8 years or he'll sign an offer sheet and leave us! Or what if he's telling the truth and Botterill is too. Let's panic when we actually need too. The panic is silly. Discussing how to handle one of the most important contracts in team history is worthwhile.
Thorner Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 It's not hockey talk. It's just rumor mongering second guessing everything our best player says so we can predict our own doomsday scenario. What if Jack secretly is lying, wants out of buffalo and wants 12.5 mil a year for 8 years or he'll sign an offer sheet and leave us! Or what if he's telling the truth and Botterill is too. Let's panic when we actually need too. A contract being signed adds a little bit more (positive)certainty to the equation, though, so the desire for one ASAP makes sense to me. The panic is silly. Discussing how to handle one of the most important contracts in team history is worthwhile. Agreed. And likewise it is also silly to suggest it is a guarantee that everything here will work out ok. Likely, yes.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 I don't think that's it. I think he wants GMBot to show him he thinks he's McDavid's peer No. He already thinks he's McDavid's peer. He has said things in the past that indicated that his belief in himself, and his goal, was to match and exceed McDavid. And I'm not against that. A healthy ego is necessary to be a top performer. But I never got the sense that he's happy here. Why should he be? The team has been stepping on its own schlong since he's been here.
LGR4GM Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 No. He already thinks he's McDavid's peer. He has said things in the past that indicated that his belief in himself, and his goal, was to match and exceed McDavid. And I'm not against that. A healthy ego is necessary to be a top performer. But I never got the sense that he's happy here. Why should he be? The team has been stepping on its own schlong since he's been here.This is weak sauce.
Radar Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 No. He already thinks he's McDavid's peer. He has said things in the past that indicated that his belief in himself, and his goal, was to match and exceed McDavid. And I'm not against that. A healthy ego is necessary to be a top performer. But I never got the sense that he's happy here. Why should he be? The team has been stepping on its own schlong since he's been here.Okay, where did you get the "sense" that he doesn't want to be here? Man this is typical idiotic sports fan talk.
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 Despite that, I would be willing to give Jack the second-biggest second contract in league history because I believe in him. Before the stupid Draisaitl contract, that number could have been as low as $7.5 million. I think at minimum we were getting Jack for $9M, and now we're likely looking at $10M plus I don't care what the number is, as long as it doesn't eclipse 14.5% of the cap
3putt Posted September 6, 2017 Report Posted September 6, 2017 I'm not going to delete my posts. It was a good conversation This list (my post) states that for all of them but Stamkos, they did not become RFAs. Stamkos, however, did. Good point. The only comparable we have though is Stamkos, who wasn't offered. It is interesting that he is the only example, and he signed a much shorter deal with Tampa I don't think he ever hits RFA status either way, but if he does I'm confident he won't be offered I think we are talking over each other. They all were extended before their ELCs expired like McDavid this year. Therefore none were eligible to be offer sheeted. They signed before they were eligible to be offer sheeted, if that is a term. The point being made up thread is that if Jack goes the year without signing he can be offer sheeted as a player not under contract.
WildCard Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Posted September 6, 2017 I think we are talking over each other. They all were extended before their ELCs expired like McDavid this year. Therefore none were eligible to be offer sheeted. They signed before they were eligible to be offer sheeted, if that is a term. The point being made up thread is that if Jack goes the year without signing he can be offer sheeted as a player not under contract. But they weren't all extended prior to RFA. Stamkos was not
3putt Posted September 6, 2017 Report Posted September 6, 2017 But they weren't all extended prior to RFA. Stamkos was not Correct of the 6 you named one was not extended prior to his contract expiring.
WildCard Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) Correct of the 6 you named one was not extended prior to his contract expiring. Right. And I've admitted that in multiple posts prior to this In the situation of elite talents hitting the RFA market, he is the only one of those I named. And in that case, he was not extended an offer sheet Edited September 6, 2017 by WildCard
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