WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) all were resigned before being eligible to be offer sheeted. Really? Malkin was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/evgeni-malkin Crosby was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sidney-crosby Looks like Stamkos was an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/steven-stamkos Toews was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jonathan-toews Kane was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/patrick-kane Tavares was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/john-tavares So mostly correct, but Stamkos was indeed an RFA, and went nowhere, and received, unless I'm mistaken, zero offer sheets. I'm sure I could dig up more top 5 picks that hit RFA and still received no offers Right. Wildcard, do you understand the preconditions of an offer sheet? Yes, I understand the preconditions of an offer sheet. It's nucking futs to allow this to become a possibility. Sign the man. The possibility is a .00000001% Y'all need to chill. dudacek already said it. Because Buffalo :lol: Edited September 5, 2017 by WildCard
That Aud Smell Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 The possibility is a .00000001% Really helpful. Thank you. (Seriously.)
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 Since 2007, there have been 7 offer sheets, and only Dustin Penner from Anaheim to Edmonton was accepted (2007) for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in 2008.
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) No, you don't. Go back and look at all your links, under "contract history." They all signed extensions before their entry-level deals were up. Really? Malkin was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/evgeni-malkin Crosby was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sidney-crosby Looks like Stamkos was an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/steven-stamkos Toews was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jonathan-toews Kane was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/patrick-kane Tavares was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/john-tavares So mostly correct, but Stamkos was indeed an RFA, and went nowhere, and received, unless I'm mistaken, zero offer sheets. I'm sure I could dig up more top 5 picks that hit RFA and still received no offers Please read my post before telling me what I do and do not understand Edited September 5, 2017 by WildCard
erickompositör72 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 You know what? If Eichel doesn't want to be here, it's only a matter of time before he leaves of his own accord. If he doesn't want to be here, he'll show what he's capable of to other teams, but slump when he feels like it. Seriously, if the guy doesn't want to be here, bring in people who do. I don't think that's it. I think he wants GMBot to show him he thinks he's McDavid's peer
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 Really helpful. Thank you. (Seriously.) I know you have 'seriously' at the end of this, but I still can't tell if this is sarcasm or not :lol:
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Unless your point is that players not eligible to get offer sheet do not get offer sheets, I still don't think you understand. You have to be an RFA to get an offer sheet, correct? I think you're failing to understand where I made a post of names without evidence, 3putt called me out on it, and when I subsequently did the research on it, found out that only Stamkos out of my unsubstantiated list of claims was actually able to be tendered one. Hence the bottom part of my post with that list of names Edited September 5, 2017 by WildCard
Doohicksie Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 I don't think that's it. I think he wants GMBot to show him he thinks he's McDavid's peer That works two ways. If he wants JBot to ship he thinks he's McD's peer, he needs to play like he's McD's peer. I guess I'm looking at it two ways: 1. Eich wants to remain with the Sabres for the long term. In that case, this is all moot. He'll eventually sign and all the hand wringers are wringing their hands in vain. Or 2. Eich wants out. If that's the case, maximize the return and don't look back. Either way it can be a win for the Sabres. Personally, I think the worst possible scenario is that Eichel proves that he is, in fact, McD's peer and commands a high salary that takes away JBot's ability to provide a strong supporting cast. I'd love it if he's McD's peer, but there are slumps and there are injuries and I'm not comfortable with putting all the eggs in one basket. But if he puts up a McJesus-worthy season, gets the big paycheck, and continues to put up McJesus-worthy seasons, that would be okay too. There are lots of scenarios here, most of which are highly favorable to the Sabres.
That Aud Smell Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 I know you have 'seriously' at the end of this, but I still can't tell if this is sarcasm or not :lol: Totally serious.
Randall Flagg Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 They're not going to let it get to July 1, I'd bet everything on that. If Jack is showing that he's worth what he wants, the contract gets done early in the season. If Jack disappoints he'll concede a little bit, and we'll move forward from there.
darksabre Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 They're not going to let it get to July 1, I'd bet everything on that. If Jack is showing that he's worth what he wants, the contract gets done early in the season. If Jack disappoints he'll concede a little bit, and we'll move forward from there. I reckon it's done before Christmas.
erickompositör72 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 They're not going to let it get to July 1, I'd bet everything on that. If Jack is showing that he's worth what he wants, the contract gets done early in the season. Around 20 games in, I'm betting.
LTS Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 This thread will be the one that breaks SabreSpace. All this worry over nothing... meanwhile, there's a big-arse hurricane about to wreak havoc... I'm more worried about that right now.
Sabre1974 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 So glad we dont get hurricane's here in fife. Saying that weather in scotland is 75% rain :(
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I deleted/amended my posts. You threw me off when you said "mostly correct," when you were mostly incorrect. You were saying 3putt is mostly correct? You didn't acknowledge that you undermined your own point. Yes, I was saying 3putt is mostly correct. I will say my point still stands. Stamkos is a talent much like Eichel, and was not provided an offer sheet. There have also only been 7 offer sheets in the last decade. My point of, if a player is eligible for an offer sheet they will not be offered one, still stands. Even if Eichel makes it to RFA, like Stamkos did, for some reason teams are still hesitant to offer sheet an elite talent like that. We saw it with Kuznetsov this year too Edited September 5, 2017 by WildCard
erickompositör72 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Yes, I was saying 3putt is mostly correct. I will say my point still stands. Stamkos is a talent much like Eichel, and was not provided an offer sheet. There have also only been 7 offer sheets in the last decade. My point of, if a player is eligible for an offer sheet they will not be offered one, still stands. Even if Eichel makes it to RFA, like Stamkos did, for some reason teams are still hesitant to offer sheet an elite talent like that. We saw it with Kuznetsov this year too I get your point, and have cleared stated why I think it's flawed. I'm going to now go back and delete all redundant responses from this back-and-forth, and I think you should too. (including this post of yours I just quoted) Edited September 5, 2017 by ericcomposer72
TrueBlueGED Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 For me, that will happen about a year from now. I have no problem with him playing out his entry-level deal and proving he is actually worth that $10 million most of you think he willl get. My reading of your posts leads me to believe if he earns $10 million in your eyes, he'll actually get something like $12 million, and you'll still be dissatisfied because he's making essentially as much as McDavid. Fair?
Thorner Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Anyone a bit nervous that Eichel hasn't signed yet? For me, that will happen about a year from now. I have no problem with him playing out his entry-level deal and proving he is actually worth that $10 million most of you think he willl get. That's the thing: that nervous period a year from now is all but guaranteed if they don't get a deal done this offseason Unless, as PTR posits, Jack is lukewarm-to-negative about staying in Buffalo and is fully negative about signing for substantially less than McD got. As for Weber -- I don't agree that it would've been a dumb move for Philly, which has been mired in mediocrity for years. Weber is one of the best players of his generation and he was 26 when he signed it. The fact that Nashville matched is also an indicator that it wasn't a dumb offer. I don't want Eichel to sign an offer sheet either, but we shouldn't pretend that it's an impossibility. The Sabres have been atrocious since he arrived, they don't have much of a winning tradition, they play in a small, cold-weather market, they have a history of losing their best players and they are stepping into the unknown with an untested coach and untested GM. This. That is my worry. Why do we choose to ignore what Eichel himself is saying? People are dishonest all the time. Particularly in the media. I think Eichel is being honest. But I'm still concerned. Exceptionally large component of franchise merits corresponding concern.
3putt Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Really? Malkin was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/evgeni-malkin Crosby was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sidney-crosby Looks like Stamkos was an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/steven-stamkos Toews was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jonathan-toews Kane was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/patrick-kane Tavares was not an RFA https://www.capfriendly.com/players/john-tavares So mostly correct, but Stamkos was indeed an RFA, and went nowhere, and received, unless I'm mistaken, zero offer sheets. I'm sure I could dig up more top 5 picks that hit RFA and still received no offers Yes, I understand the preconditions of an offer sheet. The possibility is a .00000001% dudacek already said it. Because Buffalo :lol: Look at the signing dates. They were all extended before they became unsigned RFA's. You can;t offer sheet a player under contract. Their contract must expire and still be under team control. Each were signed the year before their ELC was to expire. Kane and Toews were bridged. Sort of. But none of them went to a point where they were RFA's under an expired contract.
Thorner Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Per Matt Bove Just spoke w/Eichel's agent. He says contract talks between the two sides have died down & that Eichel is planning on playing w/out new deal This is not good news. More from Matt Bove Eichel's agent went on to say that they would be open to negotiating once the season has started @WKBW #Sabres But would the Sabres be willing to? Worrying can only make you suffer twice. Newt! Nobody gave one to Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Malkin, Crosby, McDavid... all were resigned before being eligible to be offer sheeted. Since 2007, there have been 7 offer sheets, and only Dustin Penner from Anaheim to Edmonton was accepted (2007) for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in 2008. Wel, exactly. So few offer sheets, cause so few TRULY GREAT players are allowed to get to that position where an offer sheet is a seriously viable option. If Jack scores over 80 points this year, the odds of an offer sheet go way, way up.
Randall Flagg Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 If Jack scores over 80 points this year, the odds of an offer sheet go way, way up. No - if Jack scores over 80, Botterill nods his head and says alright, you've earned what you wanted, and boom Jack is signed months before July 1. (weeks, if we win playoff rounds). So the odds stay the same, at zero* :P
Thorner Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 No - if Jack scores over 80, Botterill nods his head and says alright, you've earned what you wanted, and boom Jack is signed months before July 1. (weeks, if we win playoff rounds). So the odds stay the same, at zero* :P This precludes the possibility of Jack upping his ask at that point. We lose out even IF Botterill does up to that hypothetical level. Or Jack being so close to RFA offer sheet status he decides to wait to see if he can get an even higher offer from another team. You can pretend the possiblilty is zero, but you'd be wrong. It's unlikely, but not so unlikely so as to not merit concern.
Doohicksie Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 This precludes the possibility of Jack upping his ask at that point. We lose out even IF Botterill does up to that hypothetical level. Or Jack being so close to RFA offer sheet status he decides to wait to see if he can get an even higher offer from another team. You can pretend the possiblilty is zero, but you'd be wrong. It's unlikely, but not so unlikely so as to not merit concern. If Jack is truly having that good a year, he'll be signed much earlier. I don't think this goes too deep into the season. He either proves himself over the first several games (~20, as someone else said), or he disproves himself (i.e., has a disappointing start) and settles for less-than-McJesus coin. If he's somewhere in between it may drag out, but the longer he puts up point-per-game numbers, the sooner JBot caves in.
WildCard Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I get your point, and have cleared stated why I think it's flawed. I'm going to now go back and delete all redundant responses from this back-and-forth, and I think you should too. (including this post of yours I just quoted) I'm not going to delete my posts. It was a good conversation Look at the signing dates. They were all extended before they became unsigned RFA's. You can;t offer sheet a player under contract. Their contract must expire and still be under team control. Each were signed the year before their ELC was to expire. Kane and Toews were bridged. Sort of. But none of them went to a point where they were RFA's under an expired contract. This list (my post) states that for all of them but Stamkos, they did not become RFAs. Stamkos, however, did. Well, exactly. So few offer sheets, cause so few TRULY GREAT players are allowed to get to that position where an offer sheet is a seriously viable option. If Jack scores over 80 points this year, the odds of an offer sheet go way, way up. Good point. The only comparable we have though is Stamkos, who wasn't offered. It is interesting that he is the only example, and he signed a much shorter deal with Tampa I don't think he ever hits RFA status either way, but if he does I'm confident he won't be offered Edited September 5, 2017 by WildCard
Thorner Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 If Jack is truly having that good a year, he'll be signed much earlier. I don't think this goes too deep into the season. He either proves himself over the first several games (~20, as someone else said), or he disproves himself (i.e., has a disappointing start) and settles for less-than-McJesus coin. If he's somewhere in between it may drag out, but the longer he puts up point-per-game numbers, the sooner JBot caves in. Are we certain Botterill would be open to contract talks in season? I've heard of clubs not partaking in such...
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