Around the NHL 2017

[LTS]

It's easy to look at the dollar amounts involved and the lack of relation they have to the reality of the world as lived in by 99.9% of us, but the theme remains the same. These questions could also be asked about buying cars, phones, groceries. Not going any deeper down that rabbit hole for obvious reasons.

 

In the specific example of the NHL labor situation, it can be seen coming a mile away. We'll lose at least half another season to produce another CBA in which the players are bent over. There's the team and then there's the TEAM. I get it, they make a lot of money; but in a capitalist system why they or anyone should be blamed for attempting to increase what they're worth is beyond me.

 

I don't even think about the NHLPA as a union per se.  I grew up in a "union" house.  I lived through plenty of strikes and watching what happened to my family during them.  The fundamental flaw in the real world is the belief that you can't be replaced by someone else.  This sure as hell does not apply in professional sports where no one is replacing the majority of the athletes.  You can bring in the "next tier" of athlete but the level of play will not hold up.

 

Your view of capitalism is in vacuum.  What defines what you are worth?  Are you the next $13M, no championship guy or are you the next $10M guy with 4 championships?  Are you the guy who everyone says is the best to never win or are you the guy people call a perennial winner?  Are you the winner who gets asked to appear on magazine covers, gets endorsement deals, gets a nice $100k per speaking engagement where you put in 30-45 minutes of work?

 

 

I'm still amazed that these player unions have not just overthrown the system.  They are irreplaceable talent.  If there was a true desire to change the system they could win that standoff.  An owner with a big building to fill and no sports team is going to lose a lot of money.  The players could form their own teams, hire their own leadership, and then offer the owners the ability to rent their ice time to the players to play their games.  Hell, the players could find smaller arenas for the short term.  It might lower income but the owners couldn't last more than a year before they'd be forced to make changes.  They aren't going to get the same attendance by pulling in an entire league full of guys who can't make an NHL contract, let alone an NHL roster.

 

You think people are going to shell out enough money to fill an arena full of ECHL teams?  Not a chance.

[Sabel79]

I don't even think about the NHLPA as a union per se.  I grew up in a "union" house.  I lived through plenty of strikes and watching what happened to my family during them.  The fundamental flaw in the real world is the belief that you can't be replaced by someone else.  This sure as hell does not apply in professional sports where no one is replacing the majority of the athletes.  You can bring in the "next tier" of athlete but the level of play will not hold up.

 

Your view of capitalism is in vacuum.  What defines what you are worth?  Are you the next $13M, no championship guy or are you the next $10M guy with 4 championships?  Are you the guy who everyone says is the best to never win or are you the guy people call a perennial winner?  Are you the winner who gets asked to appear on magazine covers, gets endorsement deals, gets a nice $100k per speaking engagement where you put in 30-45 minutes of work?

 

 

I'm still amazed that these player unions have not just overthrown the system.  They are irreplaceable talent.  If there was a true desire to change the system they could win that standoff.  An owner with a big building to fill and no sports team is going to lose a lot of money.  The players could form their own teams, hire their own leadership, and then offer the owners the ability to rent their ice time to the players to play their games.  Hell, the players could find smaller arenas for the short term.  It might lower income but the owners couldn't last more than a year before they'd be forced to make changes.  They aren't going to get the same attendance by pulling in an entire league full of guys who can't make an NHL contract, let alone an NHL roster.

 

You think people are going to shell out enough money to fill an arena full of ECHL teams?  Not a chance.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I do get what you're saying, and understand that there are many factors above and beyond money-grabbing at play. I just firmly believe for the reasons stated above that McDavid leaving any money on the table is, in the long run, detrimental to the whole of NHLPA membership, now and more so in the future, both short and long term.

[3putt]

Jussi signs with the Oil. 1.1 for 1 year.

[Mustache of God]

Looks like Grigorenko signed in Russia: http://buffalonews.com/2017/07/07/former-sabres-no-1-pick-mikhail-grigorenko-signs-russia/

[Sabres Fan in NS]

This remains the only deal of his that bugs me.

 

Because the best player in the trade got hurt?

 

Not the (former)GM's fault.

[Taro T]

One of the problems the NHLPA faces is cap floor teams. How many teams do not spend to the cap such as Arizona, Florida and even Anaheim. This is millions of unspend cap room that only hurts the players. There should be a rule change that allows teams to sell in used cap space to other teams, with the half the money going to the team and the other half going to the players.

I believe the NHLPA should push for a soft cap, where teams can roll extra cap space into an upcoming season. Also allow each team to designate one or two contracts for reduced cap hits, meaning that only 75% of the AAV counts towards the cap. The caveat is this can only be used on players who have re-signed with their own team. However by doing this a team would be restricted on the amount they can spend in UFA. This incentivizes teams drafting and developing their own talent

Can you pease explain how in a system where players get an exactly precisely set $ amount based on the money brought in during that particular season does having cap floor teams hurt players?

 

Cap floor teams actually minimize the end of season escrow hits & if there are enough of them they could even result in players leaguewide actually getting more than their nominal contract value.

[Taro T]

-------------------------------

 

And to the grousing about players not getting any of the expansion fee there is a logical reason for it.

 

The owners split national TV contract revenues equally. There are no new playoff games added with the new team so there are no new National TV broadcasts but that pie now gets spread 31 ways vs 30. The expansion fee in large part covers lost revenue over a LT horizon. (If the TV rights fee goes up, the players do get 50% of that increase.)

 

A new team raises HRR by ~3% due to 41 new home games & a new local TV market selling local broadcasting rights & ads. The players overall salary pool also goes up by the same ~3%. Though this gets spread across 3% more jobs, isn't extra job openings something unions are supposed to support?(Yeah, "real" unions are about limiting openings & raising salaries. But, shouldn't a goal of a sports union be additional job openings when there is no associated salary decrease & possibly a salary increase? The possible salary increase coming from theoritically higher national TV rights fees due to there being an extra home market now caring about the sport at the national level when the NBC contract reopens.)

[Brawndo]

Can you pease explain how in a system where players get an exactly precisely set $ amount based on the money brought in during that particular season does having cap floor teams hurt players?

 

Cap floor teams actually minimize the end of season escrow hits & if there are enough of them they could even result in players leaguewide actually getting more than their nominal contract value.

I can't. I missed your post earlier explaining this very subject earlier in the thread and I yield the floor to superior knowledge of the CBA :)

[Taro T]

I can't. I missed your post earlier explaining this very subject earlier in the thread and I yield the floor to superior knowledge of the CBA :)

It's all good Doc. Was a REEEAAAALLY long week & very glad it is over. :beer:

 

One Buffalo in hand & Telegraph Road on the CD player. The week is getting better. ;)

Edited July 8, 2017 by Taro T

[Mustache of God]

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/07/08/report-zadorov-has-mutual-agreement-with-khl-but-waiting-for-better-offer-from-avs/

 

 

Zadorov has a deal in place to go back to the KHL if the Avs don't offer him more. While I don't think he'll jump ship this just continues to make the O Reilly trade look even better.

[MattPie]

from some article... 

 

Some of Buffalo’s best moments come when Eichel creates plays by carrying the puck. It also led to a bad moment Sunday as he turned the puck over next to the net, leading to a 2-1 Canucks lead. Lehner seemed to pick out the moment following the game.

 

“We have a structure, but we don’t play it,” Lehner said Sunday. “If we’re going to chip it deep or do whatever we’re supposed to do, let’s do another deke, let’s do another play. Get out of our zone? No, let’s do the fancy thing.”

 

Reminded of the exact wording of that quote, I'm curious what Lehner is going to say about a new system that is entirely the bolded.

[dudacek]

Reminded of the exact wording of that quote, I'm curious what Lehner is going to say about a new system that is entirely the bolded.

I don't think we should interpret those comments as an endorsement of Bylsma's philosophy.

It was a statement about how a team needs to all be buying into the system and following that system if they expect to have any success; pulling in different directions is a clear recipe for failure.

 

As far as I'm concerned that is simple truth and holding each other accountable is leadership.

But clearly many here don't think a goalie should be taking on that leadership role

[pi2000]

I don't think we should interpret those comments as an endorsement of Bylsma's philosophy.

It was a statement about how a team needs to all be buying into the system and following that system if they expect to have any success; pulling in different directions is a clear recipe for failure.

 

As far as I'm concerned that is simple truth and holding each other accountable is leadership.

But clearly many here don't think a goalie should be taking on that leadership role

The goalie stops pucks. The forwards and defensemen play the game.

[I-90 W]

The goalie stops pucks. The forwards and defensemen play the game.

I think it depends though. In Montreal I doubt Carey "overpriced" is thought of as just a puck stopper.

[Sabel79]

I think it depends though. In Montreal I doubt Carey "overpriced" is thought of as just a puck stopper.

Also, we'll recall the sneaky attempt by Vancouver to make Louongo the captain against NHL rules and all common sense.  Hmmm... Now that I consider it, that might speak more to a horribly flawed roster construction than it does goalies in leadership because of good reasons. 

 

Note, I have no actual information that Price is an actual leader on that team in any way.  But it'd make sense.

[LGR4GM]

Turgeon to the Kings as coach

Ruff to the Rangers as coach

[WildCard]

Turgeon to the Kings as coach

Ruff to the Rangers as coach

@LAKings

For the first time in LA Kings history, there will be one coach dedicated to an "Offensive Coordinator" role.

 

As an AC?

[LGR4GM]

 

@LAKings

For the first time in LA Kings history, there will be one coach dedicated to an "Offensive Coordinator" role.

 

As an AC?

 

Yup assistant coaches all around. You get an assistant coach! and you get an assistant coach! 

[WildCard]

Yup assistant coaches all around. You get an assistant coach! and you get an assistant coach! 

Was wondering this the other day: what's the difference between an assistance and an associate coach?

[Brawndo]

Was wondering this the other day: what's the difference between an assistance and an associate coach?

Associate coaches usually have more experience, higher salaries and is usually a former HC

[Taro T]

Associate coaches usually have more experience, higher salaries and is usually a former HC

Pretty much.

 

They're the guys that don't have to carry the pucks & white boards out at practice. :p

[Brawndo]

Tampa Bay signs Tyler Johnson to a 7 year extension/ 5 Million AAV

[LGR4GM]

Pretty much.

 

They're the guys that don't have to carry the pucks & white boards out at practice. :p

That's why bylsma had so many assistant coaches... carrying the 9 whiteboards

[pi2000]

Tampa Bay signs Tyler Johnson to a 7 year extension/ 5 Million AAV

 

 

That's quite a bargain IMO....  he's one year older thank E. Kane.   

 

Would you give Evander that same deal?

[WildCard]

Yzerman continues to prove himself a great GM