Around the NHL 2017

[rakish]

This is last year:

 

BUF #15 EICHEL(1), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(1); #9 KANE(2)
BUF #23 REINHART(2), Deflected, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(3); #29 POMINVILLE(4)
BUF #67 POULIOT(4), Wrist, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #90 O'REILLY(7); #55 RISTOLAINEN(5)
BUF #15 EICHEL(7), Wrist, Off. Zone, 43 ft.Assists: #9 KANE(10); #55 RISTOLAINEN(6)
BUF #21 OKPOSO(3), Wrist, Def. Zone, 149 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(7); #9 KANE(11)
BUF #67 POULIOT(8), Backhand, Off. Zone, 21 ft.Assists: #6 SCANDELLA(7); #55 RISTOLAINEN(8)
BUF #9 KANE(14), Slap, Off. Zone, 30 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(9); #15 EICHEL(16)
BUF #15 EICHEL(15), Snap, Off. Zone, 24 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(11); #55 RISTOLAINEN(10)
BUF #23 REINHART(6), Wrist, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(12); #55 RISTOLAINEN(11)
BUF #22 LARSSON(2), Backhand, Off. Zone, 6 ft.Assists: #10 JOSEFSON(2); #55 RISTOLAINEN(12)
BUF #90 O'REILLY(10), Snap, Off. Zone, 37 ft.Assists: #15 EICHEL(21); #55 RISTOLAINEN(13)
BUF #15 EICHEL(17), Slap, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(16); #55 RISTOLAINEN(14)
BUF #23 REINHART(8), Backhand, Off. Zone, 8 ft.Assists: #15 EICHEL(26); #55 RISTOLAINEN(15)
BUF #15 EICHEL(19), Slap, Off. Zone, 47 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(16); #90 O'REILLY(20)
BUF #23 REINHART(9), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(17); #15 EICHEL(27)
BUF #15 EICHEL(20), Wrist, Off. Zone, 51 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(18); #21 OKPOSO(20)
BUF #21 OKPOSO(9), Wrist, Off. Zone, 4 ft.Assists: #6 SCANDELLA(13); #55 RISTOLAINEN(19)
BUF #90 O'REILLY(16), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 24 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(20); #21 OKPOSO(23)
BUF #90 O'REILLY(17), Wrist, Off. Zone, 23 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(24); #55 RISTOLAINEN(21)
BUF #90 O'REILLY(18), Backhand, Off. Zone, 7 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(25); #55 RISTOLAINEN(22)
BUF #71 RODRIGUES(5), Slap, Off. Zone, 39 ft.Assists: #23 REINHART(19); #55 RISTOLAINEN(24)
BUF #29 POMINVILLE(10), Slap, Off. Zone, 40 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(25); #90 O'REILLY(28)
BUF #23 REINHART(16), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(26); #21 OKPOSO(27)
BUF #29 POMINVILLE(11), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 23 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(27); #22 LARSSON(10)
BUF #29 POMINVILLE(12), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 11 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(28); #71 RODRIGUES(12)
BUF #67 POULIOT(13), Backhand, Off. Zone, 11 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(29); #23 REINHART(22)
BUF #90 O'REILLY(21), Wrist, Off. Zone, 22 ft.Assists: #23 REINHART(24); #55 RISTOLAINEN(30)
BUF #90 O'REILLY(22), Wrist, Off. Zone, 15 ft.Assists: #15 EICHEL(34); #55 RISTOLAINEN(31)
BUF #23 REINHART(21), Snap, Def. Zone, 172 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(32); #15 EICHEL(35)
BUF #21 OKPOSO(13), Wrist, Off. Zone, 35 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(33); #15 EICHEL(37)
BUF #23 REINHART(24), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(34); #90 O'REILLY(36)
BUF #92 NYLANDER(1), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 26 ft.Assists: #45 GUHLE(3); #55 RISTOLAINEN(35)

[WildCard]

This is last year:

 

BUF #15 EICHEL(1), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(1); #9 KANE(2)

BUF #23 REINHART(2), Deflected, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(3); #29 POMINVILLE(4)

BUF #67 POULIOT(4), Wrist, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #90 O'REILLY(7); #55 RISTOLAINEN(5)

BUF #15 EICHEL(7), Wrist, Off. Zone, 43 ft.Assists: #9 KANE(10); #55 RISTOLAINEN(6)

BUF #21 OKPOSO(3), Wrist, Def. Zone, 149 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(7); #9 KANE(11)

BUF #67 POULIOT(8), Backhand, Off. Zone, 21 ft.Assists: #6 SCANDELLA(7); #55 RISTOLAINEN(8)

BUF #9 KANE(14), Slap, Off. Zone, 30 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(9); #15 EICHEL(16)

BUF #15 EICHEL(15), Snap, Off. Zone, 24 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(11); #55 RISTOLAINEN(10)

BUF #23 REINHART(6), Wrist, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(12); #55 RISTOLAINEN(11)

BUF #22 LARSSON(2), Backhand, Off. Zone, 6 ft.Assists: #10 JOSEFSON(2); #55 RISTOLAINEN(12)

BUF #90 O'REILLY(10), Snap, Off. Zone, 37 ft.Assists: #15 EICHEL(21); #55 RISTOLAINEN(13)

BUF #15 EICHEL(17), Slap, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(16); #55 RISTOLAINEN(14)

BUF #23 REINHART(8), Backhand, Off. Zone, 8 ft.Assists: #15 EICHEL(26); #55 RISTOLAINEN(15)

BUF #15 EICHEL(19), Slap, Off. Zone, 47 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(16); #90 O'REILLY(20)

BUF #23 REINHART(9), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(17); #15 EICHEL(27)

BUF #15 EICHEL(20), Wrist, Off. Zone, 51 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(18); #21 OKPOSO(20)

BUF #21 OKPOSO(9), Wrist, Off. Zone, 4 ft.Assists: #6 SCANDELLA(13); #55 RISTOLAINEN(19)

BUF #90 O'REILLY(16), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 24 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(20); #21 OKPOSO(23)

BUF #90 O'REILLY(17), Wrist, Off. Zone, 23 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(24); #55 RISTOLAINEN(21)

BUF #90 O'REILLY(18), Backhand, Off. Zone, 7 ft.Assists: #21 OKPOSO(25); #55 RISTOLAINEN(22)

BUF #71 RODRIGUES(5), Slap, Off. Zone, 39 ft.Assists: #23 REINHART(19); #55 RISTOLAINEN(24)

BUF #29 POMINVILLE(10), Slap, Off. Zone, 40 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(25); #90 O'REILLY(28)

BUF #23 REINHART(16), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 14 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(26); #21 OKPOSO(27)

BUF #29 POMINVILLE(11), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 23 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(27); #22 LARSSON(10)

BUF #29 POMINVILLE(12), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 11 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(28); #71 RODRIGUES(12)

BUF #67 POULIOT(13), Backhand, Off. Zone, 11 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(29); #23 REINHART(22)

BUF #90 O'REILLY(21), Wrist, Off. Zone, 22 ft.Assists: #23 REINHART(24); #55 RISTOLAINEN(30)

BUF #90 O'REILLY(22), Wrist, Off. Zone, 15 ft.Assists: #15 EICHEL(34); #55 RISTOLAINEN(31)

BUF #23 REINHART(21), Snap, Def. Zone, 172 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(32); #15 EICHEL(35)

BUF #21 OKPOSO(13), Wrist, Off. Zone, 35 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(33); #15 EICHEL(37)

BUF #23 REINHART(24), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 10 ft.Assists: #55 RISTOLAINEN(34); #90 O'REILLY(36)

BUF #92 NYLANDER(1), Tip-In, Off. Zone, 26 ft.Assists: #45 GUHLE(3); #55 RISTOLAINEN(35)

So 16 primary assists out of the 35 he had.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Jokertecken

[darksabre]

So 16 primary assists out of the 35 he had.

That's... Better than I expected. But not as good as I'd like from a supposed offensive defenseman. I wonder how that compares to a Karlsson or a Hamilton?

[TrueBlueGED]

What's wrong with his contract?

If somebody other than a monkey coded corsica then I'd have the answer by now

 

1) There's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying that $5.4 million isn't "next to nothing." That's a significant contract.

 

2) :lol: :beer:

[Randall Flagg]

How many assists were PP production versus even strength play? I'm more interested in that than Primary/Secondary points for a defenseman, who is going to have a high number of secondaries anyway by virtue of how NHL transition goals happen

[inkman]

Andrew Peters with probably the best moment of his life

 

https://twitter.com/besidecraig/status/987366692018900992?s=19

[Thorner]

I want Risto to be on the 2nd pair. I think it's where he probably belongs.

Completely agreed. I don’t think we’ll have a “good” defence until Risto is on the second pair. Things would look pretty good with the Dahlin - Hamilton, Scandella - Ristolainen scenario. It’s basically bumping our first pair down to two. Guhle - McCabe 3rd pair rounds things out adequately.

 

It’s just the simple matter now of acquiring both those guys :lol:

 

I think I just value Risto more than everyone else ;)

 

And I really, really hate our wings. If I have to watch another season of Garbage - Eichel - Trash I'm going to lose it

I’m with you. Getting Eichel a couple of wings is a major priority.

[dudacek]

He's going to the same roster lol

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/friedman-eyes-potential-offseason-nhl-changes/

 

If O'Reilly goes to Calgary, Backlund is almost certainly coming back.

The other half of the deal will be defender for defender, where we get the better player.

Depth involved to balance it out.

 

I would love to pick-up Bennett for pennies on the dollar.

He's got more to give and as speedy young left winger with some talent and tenacity, he fits us well.

 

***

 

Separately, I don't know if it's just an issue with terminology, but Risto is not a second-pair defenceman.

What I mean is he's not in the middle third of NHL defencemen.

I agree if people say he's not a number one guy, but he is clearly in the upper third of NHL blueliners.

Edited April 21, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

If O'Reilly goes to Calgary, Backlund is almost certainly coming back.

The other half of the deal will be defender for defender, where we get the better player.

Depth involved to balance it out.

 

I would love to pick-up Bennett for pennies on the dollar.

He's got more to give and as speedy young left winger with some talent and tenacity, he fits us well.

 

I want no part of Backlund and his contract. That one season was a fluke. 

 

I also want no part of trying to fill O'Reilly's role in an O'Reilly trade. Because I don't want O'Reilly's role to exist on this team next season. 

 

I'd couple him with a Nylander/or other prospect/picks and try my best to get a 3D and a good winger, or just do him straight up for a Hamilton/Parayko kind of guy.

[dudacek]

I'm confused.

You don't want a centre to match up against other teams best centres?

Isn't that kinda unavoidable?

[Randall Flagg]

I'm confused.

You don't want a centre to match up against other teams best centres?

Isn't that kinda unavoidable?

What I mean by that is I don't want our second best offensive talent being literally driven into the ground, double shifted for faceoff purposes, chasing top lines, etc. 

 

Build a fourth line of Riley Nash, Matt Calvert, and whoever is left of Larry and Zemgus and burden them as much as possible, aiming to maximize the damage you can do with the three players you consider weapons on the entire roster, and then shelter some kiddos behind them.

 

Chasing after a Jordan Staal or Backlund or type of guy you envision just giving the ROR role to, and probably being worse at it, is pointless IMO, because you're not going to get a piece that is worth giving up ROR for along side of that thing that is .75*ROR.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

Well, I certainly wouldn't be playing Backlund 23 minutes a night.

 

And I'm not going to have any hope of making the playoffs if I don't have someone to shelter Mittelstadt and give Jack a break.

Doesn't have to be as good as Backlund, but he certainly has to be more capable than Larsson.

 

It's hard to draw parallels when everyone has different opinions on players, but I'm envisioning something like (for illustration purposes only — ignore the actual player and consider the package concept) O'Reilly/McCabe for a Backlund/Brodie or Horvat/Tanev or Jenner/Murray or Faksa/Lindell, or Koivu/Brodin or Nugent-Hopkins/Larsson or... with a third component to balance things out if necessary

 

O'Reilly is our first choice in all situations. Theoretically, we can give his O roles to Casey, but we've got no one to pick up the D.

If we trade O'Reilly and don't acquire a 2/3C we are going to get killed.

[TrueBlueGED]

I just keep coming back to the notion that I can't see a trade that happens where moving O'Reilly makes us better. Would I trade him for Colton Parayko? Yes. Do I think St. Louis would? No. And on and on we go. With respect, Dudacek, some of those moves you suggested make us considerably worse, IMO. Jenner and Murray, or Nuge and Larsson? Freaking vomit.

[Taro T]

I just keep coming back to the notion that I can't see a trade that happens where moving O'Reilly makes us better. Would I trade him for Colton Parayko? Yes. Do I think St. Louis would? No. And on and on we go. With respect, Dudacek, some of those moves you suggested make us considerably worse, IMO. Jenner and Murray, or Nuge and Larsson? Freaking vomit.

Today. Absolutely correct.

 

One could be available in 2 years, though.

[dudacek]

I just keep coming back to the notion that I can't see a trade that happens where moving O'Reilly makes us better. Would I trade him for Colton Parayko? Yes. Do I think St. Louis would? No. And on and on we go. With respect, Dudacek, some of those moves you suggested make us considerably worse, IMO. Jenner and Murray, or Nuge and Larsson? Freaking vomit.

They aren’t actual trades I am suggesting.

Like I said, for illustrative purposes only.

 

Maybe I should have just said I’d take a 20 % drop in O’Reilly to upgrade a 5D to a 2/3D, particularly if we can get a young bonus piece in the puzzle and let you pick names that you think might fit.

 

Taro might be right; the trade may not be out there this summer.

But I’m pretty sure Bots has already tried to lay the groundwork, and that a straight trade of ROR for an equal value defenceman would be a lot harder to make than a deal with multiple parts.

Edited April 21, 2018 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Trading ROR makes us worse. It would have to be a crazy deal for me to get there. Like Tkachuk, juolevi plus.

[Eleven]

Trading ROR makes us worse. It would have to be a crazy deal for me to get there. Like Tkachuk, juolevi plus.

 

1.  There are two threads on this (not singling you out, Liger) already.  Here is a link to the more specific of the two:  https://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/25757-to-trade-or-not-to-trade/page-3?do=findComment&comment=1046815

 

2.  Whether it makes the team worse depends on the return.  Please memorize the last four words of that sentence.

[Stoner]

Trading ROR makes us worse. It would have to be a crazy deal for me to get there. Like Tkachuk, juolevi plus.

What about the notion of addition by subtraction? (This angle would rely on the idea that O'Reilly is such a toxic figure in the lockerroom that although the Sabres get worse on paper, they're better off without him poisoning everyone around him.)

[Randall Flagg]

Trading ROR makes us worse. It would have to be a crazy deal for me to get there. Like Tkachuk, juolevi plus.

Would we be slicing ROR in half, sending the left side to Vancouver and the right to Calgary? :P

[LGR4GM]

Would we be slicing ROR in half, sending the left side to Vancouver and the right to Calgary? :P

Lol no juolevi or Tkachuk, just tossing out names.

[dudacek]

Things you learn from message boards:

Tkachuk would be worth sacrificing our 60-point world-class centre for.

Tkachuk at pick four would be a huge mistake.

Edited April 22, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

Things you learn from message boards:

Tkachuk would be worth sacrificing our 60-point world-class centre for.

Tkachuk at pick four would be a huge mistake.

Those are two different Tkachuks my friend

 

They're talking about Matthew as a piece in a ROR trade, and not drafting Brady this year

Edited April 22, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

Those are two different Tkachuks my friend

 

They're talking about Matthew as a piece in a ROR trade, and not drafting Brady this year

I know.

[inkman]

Those are two different Tkachuks my friend

 

They're talking about Matthew as a piece in a ROR trade, and not drafting Brady this year

Get both?

[Stoner]

You're sooooo good lookin.