Rumor: LA Kings interested in Evander Kane

[GASabresIUFAN]

Then don't do it.

But that is the problem.  If Kane doesn't want to re-sign here what do you do? or won't re-sign for a number we can afford long-term?  Do you play him until the deadline and hope he stays healthy so that you can make a good trade then?  You can't let him walk for nothing.  Most deadline deals are for futures (Picks and Prospects).  

 

Also what if Jbot is working on something bigger, such as moving Kane for the 11th and then packaging the pick and some other asset(s) for a huge upgrade on D?

[Randall Flagg]

Then don't do it.

Unless he wants to leave

[WildCard]

Unless he wants to leave

I would rather keep Kane for the season, and approach the deadline and see what I could get, then trade him for the #11 pick.

 

Unless, of course, Botterill then finds a way to turn #8 + #11 into something better

[JJFIVEOH]

He is under the impression that I am a fan of Lucic and a Kane hater.  I'm not, but the evidence shows that Lucic has been and is a better NHL player then Kane.  More consistent and more prolific.  Dudacek was trying to gauge what Kane's value would be in trade by correctly looking at what "similar" power forward brought in trade.  I was trying to point out that Lucic is a better player and therefore has a higher value.  Apparently this offended JJ is some way.

 

By the way, I think Dudacek and I are in agreement that the best we might do is pick 11 or so.  It may be hard to find a true hockey trade involving Kane.   We might have to take a future asset like a 1st rd pick to clear him off the books if that is Jbot's intention.  Eleven asked why trade your top scorer for futures.  It's a fair question, but the answer is sometimes such a move is in the best interest of the team and the reasons could be locker room, cap related, player wanting out of Buffalo etc..  In Kane's case, I can see all these factors being in play.  

 

As to the 11th overall pick. I really like Vesalainen and think if we take him, he'd probably make the team in 2018-19.  I trust Jbot to fill the gap at LW for a year.

 

It's the way you present the players unfairly. Like when somebody mentioned the quality of LINEMATES that Lucic has played with, you came back with the quality of TEAMMATES implying that it wasn't a fair comparison.................. Even though you listed his TEAMMATES and not the players he spent most of his time on the ice with. 

 

Or the way you portray Kane as the lesser of the two between him and Lucic by stating he has't even approached 55 points in season when you know damn well that's not a fair comparison because Kane missed games and Lucic didn't. 

 

Lucic played on a line with the best player in the NHL. Kane was bumped all over the place because Goober couldn't find a line for anybody to save his life. Yet Kane STILL managed to average more points per game than Lucic, while being the team's leading scorer and scoring more goals than Lucic. But, you choose to focus on his total points because you're trying to glorify Lucic. 

 

Hence the cherry picking, you do it regularly. And no, you didn't offend me. In fact I can't believe I'm even wasting this much time trying to explain it you. 

[Eleven]

But that is the problem.  If Kane doesn't want to re-sign here what do you do? or won't re-sign for a number we can afford long-term?  Do you play him until the deadline and hope he stays healthy so that you can make a good trade then?  You can't let him walk for nothing.  Most deadline deals are for futures (Picks and Prospects).  

 

Also what if Jbot is working on something bigger, such as moving Kane for the 11th and then packaging the pick and some other asset(s) for a huge upgrade on D?

 

If he won't re-sign reasonably, I try for a deal during the season.  I do not trade him for a draft pick over the summer.  I'm not sure I even trade him for a draft pick in February--and certainly not if they're in the playoff race, which they should be.  Again, there is value to saying to the other GMs, "###### you, I won't be had."

 

Let's not forget that this team isn't just about 2019 and 2020.  It's also about next year.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Eleven

[dudacek]

If he won't re-sign reasonably, I try for a deal during the season.  I do not trade him for a draft pick over the summer.  I'm not sure I even trade him for a draft pick in February--and certainly not if they're in the playoff race, which they should be.  Again, there is value to saying to the other GMs, "###### you, I won't be had."

 

Let's not forget that this team isn't just about 2019 and 2020.  It's also about next year.

You don't get the impression that the organization and Kane have already decided to part ways?

And don't you think the chances of getting anything other than picks and prospects for him outside June and July is next to nil?

[JJFIVEOH]

If he won't re-sign reasonably, I try for a deal during the season.  I do not trade him for a draft pick over the summer.  I'm not sure I even trade him for a draft pick in February--and certainly not if they're in the playoff race, which they should be.  Again, there is value to saying to the other GMs, "###### you, I won't be had."

 

Let's not forget that this team isn't just about 2019 and 2020.  It's also about next year.

 

It's not like he won't have any value at the trade deadline. Teams are more desperate then and he is the kind of player to excel in the playoffs. Wouldn't surprise me if they could get just as much for him at the deadline as they could during the summer. Granted, it would probably be a prospect and/or draft pick. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Whose cherry picking now?  You are talking about only one season.  Who evaluates a player based on one season?  Even still, with Kane having his second best season since his 2nd year in the league, his output was essentially the same as Lucic.

 

Kane 70gms 43 pts = .614

Lucic 82gms 50 pts = .610

 

As to missing games, that is a very important piece to evaluating a player.  Do you want a player who plays 95% of the time or one the plays only 80%?

You don't get the impression that the organization and Kane have already decided to part ways?
And don't you think the chances of getting anything other than picks and prospects for him outside June and July is next to nil?

 

Agreed! Also given his long injury history, there is a significant likelihood that he could be out injured at the deadline and we'd get nothing for him.

[Eleven]

You don't get the impression that the organization and Kane have already decided to part ways?

And don't you think the chances of getting anything other than picks and prospects for him outside June and July is next to nil?

 

I'm responding*only* based upon the premise that the Sabres cannot get anything better for him than a draft pick right now.  If that's the best they can do, then why not ice the team they have and see how well they do? Why settle now?

[JJFIVEOH]

Whose cherry picking now?  You are talking about only one season.  Who evaluates a player based on one season?  Even still, with Kane having his second best season since his 2nd year in the league, his output was essentially the same as Lucic.

 

Kane 70gms 43 pts = .614

Lucic 82gms 50 pts = .610

 

As to missing games, that is a very important piece to evaluating a player.  Do you want a player who plays 95% of the time or one the plays only 80%?

 

Agreed! Also given his long injury history, there is a significant likelihood that he could be out injured at the deadline and we'd get nothing for him.

 

Do you honestly think that because somebody has been injured in the past that they're going to continue getting injured? Do you honestly believe that it's mostly based on bad timing and bad luck? You can't be this naive..................

 

Why would you evaluate a player based on what he did as a rookie? Why would you evaluate a player based on what he did 7 years ago? Why would you evaluate a player based on how he played with a past team when trying to determine how well he fits your current team? 

 

Don't tell me about cherry picking. I don't care what Kane did four years ago. The general consensus around the league was that Kane is much more talented than his numbers showed and he just needed an opportunity to prove it. He got that opportunity and prospered even with a inept head coach and a stifling offensive system. 

 

In the meantime Lucic played with the best player in the NHL on an offensive oriented team and he still didn't manage to outperform Kane. 

[nfreeman]

You don't get the impression that the organization and Kane have already decided to part ways?

And don't you think the chances of getting anything other than picks and prospects for him outside June and July is next to nil?

 

This is where I take issue, sir.

 

I have seen zero indications that this decision has been made by either side.

 

I also think the only fact you've cited is TP's references to character in the GMTM/DDB termination presser (although I certainly could've missed something).

 

#dudafacts

[LGR4GM]

#AlternateFacts

[GASabresIUFAN]

Do you honestly think that because somebody has been injured in the past that they're going to continue getting injured? Do you honestly believe that it's mostly based on bad timing and bad luck? You can't be this naive..................

 

Why would you evaluate a player based on what he did as a rookie? Why would you evaluate a player based on what he did 7 years ago? Why would you evaluate a player based on how he played with a past team when trying to determine how well he fits your current team? 

 

Don't tell me about cherry picking. I don't care what Kane did four years ago. The general consensus around the league was that Kane is much more talented than his numbers showed and he just needed an opportunity to prove it. He got that opportunity and prospered even with a inept head coach and a stifling offensive system. 

 

In the meantime Lucic played with the best player in the NHL on an offensive oriented team and he still didn't manage to outperform Kane. 

Call it naive if you want, but certain players are injury prone.  It often comes from style of play, size, concussions or who knows, but Kane and Bogo are two of the most injury prone players.  

 

Kane has averaged playing only 80% of his team's games in his career.  In fact, Kane has never, other then the lockout year, played a full season in the NHL.  Never.  This isn't a fluke.  It's a pattern and and a problem.  (Bogo is worse).  If you don't think GM's, scouts and agents look at players injury history when discussing a contract, then you are the one being naive.  

 

I get it, you love Kane and think he's great.  Sadly the numbers don't support you.

Edited June 6, 2017 by GASabresFan

[JJFIVEOH]

Call it naive if you want, but certain players are injury prone.  It often comes from style of play, size, concussions or who knows, but Kane and Bogo are two of the most injury prone players.  

 

Kane has never, other then the lockout year, played a full season in the NHL.  Never.  This isn't a fluke.  It's a problem.  (Bogo is worse).

 

It's the risk you take when you have players like Kane. Physical players get hurt. Get rid of them and then the fans complain because we don't have enough physical players. 

 

Not sure how you can't label the play in which Kane broke his ribs, bad timing or bad luck. 

 

We get it, you don't like Kane. Move on. 

[LGR4GM]

[TrueBlueGED]

As someone who wants to trade Kane, I think he is currently a better player than Lucic. However, I think at his peak, Lucic was considerably better.

[Sabre1974]

I would love to keep Kane. The issue is that contract and how well he mixes on the ice with our core. It is so hard to tell because we had Dan freaking Bylsma as coach the last 2 years. 

What a waste of 2 years that has proved to be.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Listen, this is Buffalo. Where there is no room for 50 goal scorers, where everyone hates the last guy to score 80 points, and where you always wish to trade your leading goal scorer.

Plus one.

[I-90 W]

I wonder what people would say if he walks for nothing next year? Maybe then it would sink in. We like Kane but he might not like us. Let it go.

[WildCard]

It's not like he won't have any value at the trade deadline. Teams are more desperate then and he is the kind of player to excel in the playoffs. Wouldn't surprise me if they could get just as much for him at the deadline as they could during the summer. Granted, it would probably be a prospect and/or draft pick.

I have a hard time believing he can stay healthy and sustain that shooting percentage all the way to the deadline again

[dudacek]

This is where I take issue, sir.

 

I have seen zero indications that this decision has been made by either side.

 

I also think the only fact you've cited is TP's references to character in the GMTM/DDB termination presser (although I certainly could've missed something).

 

#dudafacts

 

Hey! I don't deserve that :huh:

I said "impression." I phrased it in the form of a question.

How many weasel words do you want? :P

 

Seriously though, the seed for my opinion was planted in the Pegula and Murray pressers and fertilized by the locker room cleanout interviews, where Jack talked about not everyone living and breathing hockey enough and Kane spent time defending the way he trains and prepares.

 

Jack

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/eichel-locker-clean-out/t-277822758/c-51309703

 

Evander

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/kane-locker-clean-out/t-277822758/c-51307803

 

Around 1:40 in this one after the last game, he makes reference to warm-ups and watching film. They aren't significant in and of themselves, but in the context of talk of structure, and listening to the coaches, and living and breathing hockey, they tell me he's been told to do more of this stuff and he's saying that it doesn't matter because of what he does on the ice.

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/evander-kane-postgame-040917/t-277822758/c-51302003

 

But what cemented it for me are these quotes from two of the three most credible hockey insiders:

https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/friedman-mckenzie-evaluate-evander-kane-trade-potential/

 

And just for kicks, McKenzie talked about it again today, from the perspective of the Canucks:

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mckenzie-unsure-canucks-interest-level-evander-kane/

Edited June 6, 2017 by dudacek

[WildCard]

It's the risk you take when you have players like Kane. Physical players get hurt. Get rid of them and then the fans complain because we don't have enough physical players.

 

Not sure how you can't label the play in which Kane broke his ribs, bad timing or bad luck.

 

We get it, you don't like Kane. Move on.

I don't buy into physical​ players get hurt. Stamkos gets hurt, ROR gets hurt, Foligno doesn't get hurt, etc.

[I-90 W]

Certain types of players get hurt because they are reckless with their bodies, Kaleta comes to mind. Kane is physical, not reckless.

[Weave]

I don't understand this idea that some folks are convinced he doesn't want to re-sign.  Is it because he never said he wants to extend his contract?  Hell, he doesn't say much of anything to the media.  Why would anyone think he'd discuss his hopes and dreams with them?

[I-90 W]

I don't understand this idea that some folks are convinced he doesn't want to re-sign. Is it because he never said he wants to extend his contract? Hell, he doesn't say much of anything to the media. Why would anyone think he'd discuss his hopes and dreams with them?

Yes because he hasn't expressed an interest to extend, reports that he wants to test free agency, him having a run in with the law here and likely wanting another fresh start, the lockout photo of him arguably idolozing money etc..