As if Tiger's golf game wasn't bad enough now this

[shrader]

Like him or not, I’m not quite sure we’ve ever seen anyone else who has had a bigger influence on his/her sport than Tiger has. Just watching that reception from the other players today tells you how much he means to their game. 

[WildCard]

What'd Tiger do besides cheat on his wife? Feel like every athlete/millionaire does that 

[shrader]

7 minutes ago, WildCard said:

What'd Tiger do besides cheat on his wife? Feel like every athlete/millionaire does that 

Over the top character judgement. It’s what we do. Some people just don’t like him. That’s just the way it is. 

[inkman]

7 minutes ago, WildCard said:

What'd Tiger do besides cheat on his wife? Feel like every athlete/millionaire does that 

Have you listened to him?  Or heard any stories about him?  All I hear is ahole of the highest degree.

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Over the top character judgement. It’s what we do. Some people just don’t like him. That’s just the way it is. 

But like nowhere near enough. It's like 99%.  It's not natural. 

[shrader]

I see that moment with his son and that’s enough for me. 

[WildCard]

22 minutes ago, shrader said:

Like him or not, I’m not quite sure we’ve ever seen anyone else who has had a bigger influence on his/her sport than Tiger has. Just watching that reception from the other players today tells you how much he means to their game. 

Unquestionably. All the great young competition he plays against today only plays because of Tiger. He was/is the greatest golfer of all time, and possibly the most dominate athlete in a single sport ever

[shrader]

Just now, WildCard said:

Unquestionably. All the great young competition he plays against today only plays because of Tiger. He was/is the greatest golfer of all time, and possibly the most dominate athlete in a single sport ever

And take a look at the rest of that leaderboard today. It’s littered with top ten guys from the world rankings. He didn’t just win, he outplayed the best players in the world on Sunday in Augusta. 

The two worst rounds of the day from day from top ten finishers? The two guys who played with Tiger. That’s another “just like the old days” moment from this round. 

[nfreeman]

It’s pretty clear Tiger was a huge jerk in his youth, but hopefully he’s improved his character.  It’s quite possible as it’s been a long time since he was brought low.  

[inkman]

I just listened to his post "game" presser. He's so likeable. WTF are you guys listening to. I want to stab him in the head. 

[French Collection]

I’ve been into golf for a long time and I’ve never liked him. I am in awe of what he has accomplished, but he has never found a way to make me a fan. There just seems to be nothing warm about him towards fans and other humans in general.

I am a Jack Nicklaus guy and Tiger is still chasing his record. Tiger had a 8-10 year run that was awesome but Jack contended in many majors for more than 20 years.

[TrueBlueGED]

9 hours ago, WildCard said:

What'd Tiger do besides cheat on his wife? Feel like every athlete/millionaire does that 

He was pretty much an absentee father during those years, too. 

Anyway, my biggest problem with him is he makes people care about golf. I hate golf, and I honestly don't understand enjoying watching it on TV. And when Tiger is playing well, I hear about it way more over the course of a week than I ever want to the rest of my life combined. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[tom webster]

7 hours ago, French Collection said:

I’ve been into golf for a long time and I’ve never liked him. I am in awe of what he has accomplished, but he has never found a way to make me a fan. There just seems to be nothing warm about him towards fans and other humans in general.

I am a Jack Nicklaus guy and Tiger is still chasing his record. Tiger had a 8-10 year run that was awesome but Jack contended in many majors for more than 20 years.

And Nicklaus had about a tenth of the competition. Nicklaus winning majors was like winning the Cup when the league had six teams.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

And Nicklaus had about a tenth of the competition. Nicklaus winning majors was like winning the Cup when the league had six teams.

Obviously you don’t follow golf.  Go look up the records of Arnold Palmer (7), Gary Player (9), Tom Watson (8),  Lee Trevino (6), Ray Floyd (5), Hale Irwin and Larry Nelson among others.  These were his competition and nearly all are HOFers.  

Who did Tiger beat in his prime? Ernie Els, Davis Love, Fred Couples?  The biggest winner in Tiger’s Era is Mickelson and he only has 5 majors.  

This is Tiger’s first win in the era in which there is true field depth.  Koepka, Spieth, and Rory are all major winners with 3 or more titles and are 30 or under.  

Edited April 15, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[shrader]

1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

He was pretty much an absentee father during those years, too.

What do you think happens when your job is one where you bounce from course to course on a weekly basis?  I know a guy playing on the European tour and guess what, his wife is alone with the kids most of the time.  And that tour is even tougher on the travel as they're bouncing around between Europe, Asia, and Africa.

 

As for the rest of your post, thank you for admitting that you're just trying to rain on anyone else's parade, talking about a topic you don't care about one bit.

[French Collection]

Jack and Tiger will never go head to head in their primes, just like all of the all time greats in all the other sports.

Jack's competition, with majors won were:

Gary Player 9, Tom Watson 8, Arnold Palmer 7, Lee Trevino 6, Seve Ballasteros 5, Ray Floyd 4.

The only ones with 4 or more in Tiger's era are Phil Mickelson 5, Ernie Els 4, Rory McIlroy 4.

Tiger's peak was 1999-2008. He won 13/38 Majors, finished 2nd in 5 more. Top ten in 25/38 and only 1 cut.

Jack's peak was 1971-1980 where he won 9/40 Majors, finished 2nd in 9 more. Top ten in 35/40 and only 1 cut.

Jack had a 21 year period from 1962-1982 where he won 17/84 and finished 2nd in 17 more. He was top 10 in 63/84 Majors with 4 cuts.

Tiger was hotter for a shorter period while Jack had longevity.

Tiger had Jack's record of 18 Majors on his bedroom wall as a benchmark growing up and he is still 3 short of that. He is obviously not done, but it is a fair debate about the GOAT.

[shrader]

And another thread goes off the rails. This time because someone admitted to character assassination due simply to not liking the sport. Pretty clearly a case of trolling. 

 

But anyway, Sabel I won’t speak for ..., but it seemed pretty clear to me that he was saying just because people who work a shift or schedule that makes it harder to be around their kids as often as most would like, that doesn’t make them lousy or absentee parents. We all know people who live this way and it’s ridiculous to throw them under that bus. You’re taking issue with the wrong post here. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Jack and Tiger will never go head to head in their primes, just like all of the all time greats in all the other sports.

Jack's competition, with majors won were:

Gary Player 9, Tom Watson 8, Arnold Palmer 7, Lee Trevino 6, Seve Ballasteros 5, Ray Floyd 4.

The only ones with 4 or more in Tiger's era are Phil Mickelson 5, Ernie Els 4, Rory McIlroy 4.

Tiger's peak was 1999-2008. He won 13/38 Majors, finished 2nd in 5 more. Top ten in 25/38 and only 1 cut.

Jack's peak was 1971-1980 where he won 9/40 Majors, finished 2nd in 9 more. Top ten in 35/40 and only 1 cut.

Jack had a 21 year period from 1962-1982 where he won 17/84 and finished 2nd in 17 more. He was top 10 in 63/84 Majors with 4 cuts.

Tiger was hotter for a shorter period while Jack had longevity.

Tiger had Jack's record of 18 Majors on his bedroom wall as a benchmark growing up and he is still 3 short of that. He is obviously not done, but it is a fair debate about the GOAT.

Rory’s First win is 2011.  Tiger last before yesterday was 2008.  I wouldn’t put Rory in Tiger’s ERA. Harrington’s 3 wins came in 2007-2008 and Vijay has 3.

Tiger’s best competition were Michelson (5), Els (4) Harrington (3) and Vijay (3). That’s 15 total.

Jack’s best competitors have 30, plus another group of Seve, Irwin, Nelson, Floyd, Casper have another 18. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[shrader]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Rory’s First win is 2011.  Tiger last before yesterday was 2008.  I wouldn’t put Rory in Tiger’s ERA. Harrington’s 3 wins came in 2007-2008 and Vijay has 3.

Tiger’s best competition were Michelson (5), Els (4) Harrington (3) and Vijay (3). That’s 15 total.

Jack’s best competitors have 30, plus another group of Seve, Irwin, Nelson, Floyd, Casper have another 18. 

It's tough to gauge, but Tiger's true measure might just be how many times he kept those others out of the top spot, particularly Michelson.  Two of his wins came while Tiger was basically gone due to the personal and health stuff.  He's a guy that probably would be in the top players of all time, but isn't simply because of Tiger.  Those other guys wind up with a few more too if he's not around.  I'm not so sure how the numbers stack up for Jack's list, how well their careers overlap.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

It's tough to gauge, but Tiger's true measure might just be how many times he kept those others out of the top spot, particularly Michelson.  Two of his wins came while Tiger was basically gone due to the personal and health stuff.  He's a guy that probably would be in the top players of all time, but isn't simply because of Tiger.  Those other guys wind up with a few more too if he's not around.  I'm not so sure how the numbers stack up for Jack's list, how well their careers overlap.

No question Tiger was head and shoulders above his competition and that is exactly my point. Jack had to beat a list of Hall of Famers to win his 18, Michelson and Els maybe the only top level guys Tiger beat each week.

[WildCard]

Tiger won the Masters, his first, by TWELVE strokes. He also won an open by FIFTEEN.

The dude was so damned good they legitimately Tiger-Proofed courses. And no, I'm not making that term up

His average score adjusted is just as incredible too.

Saying Tiger isn't as good ad Jack is pretty silly IMO. Tiger didn't  have as good as competition cause what? The guys around him didn't win as much? They didn't win as much because he was unstoppable and won everything

[...]

19 minutes ago, WildCard said:

The dude was so damned good they legitimately Tiger-Proofed courses. And no, I'm not making that term up

And to think he didn't upgrade his clubs until after they did this - if I have the progression correct. 

I like the point, too, that if he didn't have his health and personal problems he likely would be far more dominant.  It's naive yearning to expect people great at something to have walked out of a storybook but it simply isn't possible, people being what they are.  For what it's worth, Tiger's story isn't over.  

[shrader]

50 minutes ago, ... said:

And to think he didn't upgrade his clubs until after they did this - if I have the progression correct. 

I like the point, too, that if he didn't have his health and personal problems he likely would be far more dominant.  It's naive yearning to expect people great at something to have walked out of a storybook but it simply isn't possible, people being what they are.  For what it's worth, Tiger's story isn't over.  

And no matter where this story ends, it will still be loaded with "what could have happened if...".  But where ever he finishes, it's been a hell of a lot of fun to watch.  I don't like playing the who is the best all time game, but any chance you get to watch someone who enters into that discussion, it's something you need to enjoy while you have it.

[French Collection]

Hockey parallels are Jack Nicklaus and Gordie Howe., excellence over a long period of time. Tiger Woods and Bobby Orr, unmatched dominance cut short by injuries.

Both are in the conversation for GOAT. Gretzky dominated his peers like Tiger and stayed at a high level for a long time so they share those traits.

I'm in Jack's camp strictly because he has 3 more Majors than Tiger. As I said earlier, Tiger grew up with that number (18) on his wall and his mind.

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

Tiger won the Masters, his first, by TWELVE strokes. He also won an open by FIFTEEN.

The dude was so damned good they legitimately Tiger-Proofed courses. And no, I'm not making that term up

His average score adjusted is just as incredible too.

Saying Tiger isn't as good ad Jack is pretty silly IMO. Tiger didn't  have as good as competition cause what? The guys around him didn't win as much? They didn't win as much because he was unstoppable and won everything

Jack won a lot, 3 more Majors than Tiger, but his top end peers won more than Tiger's high end competition. Tiger's competition was deeper and more widespread with fewer HOF guys.

I view them as 1A and 1B, giving the slight edge to Jack and his 18 Majors.

[matter2003]

5 hours ago, French Collection said:

Jack and Tiger will never go head to head in their primes, just like all of the all time greats in all the other sports.

Jack's competition, with majors won were:

Gary Player 9, Tom Watson 8, Arnold Palmer 7, Lee Trevino 6, Seve Ballasteros 5, Ray Floyd 4.

The only ones with 4 or more in Tiger's era are Phil Mickelson 5, Ernie Els 4, Rory McIlroy 4.

Tiger's peak was 1999-2008. He won 13/38 Majors, finished 2nd in 5 more. Top ten in 25/38 and only 1 cut.

Jack's peak was 1971-1980 where he won 9/40 Majors, finished 2nd in 9 more. Top ten in 35/40 and only 1 cut.

Jack had a 21 year period from 1962-1982 where he won 17/84 and finished 2nd in 17 more. He was top 10 in 63/84 Majors with 4 cuts.

Tiger was hotter for a shorter period while Jack had longevity.

Tiger had Jack's record of 18 Majors on his bedroom wall as a benchmark growing up and he is still 3 short of that. He is obviously not done, but it is a fair debate about the GOAT.

I'd argue there are far more good golfers now than when Jack played, which is why so few of them have multiple majors...a corollary to that is you have to be a much better golfer now to win that many majors than you did back in Jack's time.

Edited April 15, 2019 by matter2003