Doohicksie Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) When I saw this thread, my immediate thought was that if I were to use Vanek to replace anyone, it would be Moulson. Looking up their stats, I'm shocked to see that they're both the same age, It feels like Moulson is about ten years older at this point. That's because the last time you were rooting for Vanek, he *was* ten years younger (more or less). Edited May 30, 2017 by Doohickie Quote
Radar Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) How would Vanek rank among the most talented Sabres of all time? Maybe not top 10, but I'm guessing pretty easily top 20. Gilbert, Rico, Housley, Turgeon, Mogilny, Hawerchuk, Lafontaine, Dom, Connolly, Eichel... In terms of straight skill, who else had more? Are you saying he is even in the same world with Gare? Ramsey? , Luce?, Man I could go on. Top 20? Maybe but it's close. Now.....don't want any part of him. Edited May 30, 2017 by Radar Quote
LGR4GM Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 When I saw this thread, my immediate thought was that if I were to use Vanek to replace anyone, it would be Moulson. Looking up their stats, I'm shocked to see that they're both the same age, It feels like Moulson is about ten years older at this point.Agreed Quote
Weave Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 How would Vanek rank among the most talented Sabres of all time? Maybe not top 10, but I'm guessing pretty easily top 20. Gilbert, Rico, Housley, Turgeon, Mogilny, Hawerchuk, Lafontaine, Dom, Connolly, Eichel... In terms of straight skill, who else had more? Swap Connolly for Andrechuck. In terms of straight skill, there were more, but time in service counts. Vanek had talent and time served. Vanek was never the player we needed, so he wasn't the player we wanted. I'm not sure he was capable of changing that. Quote
dudacek Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 Are you saying he is even in the same world with Gare? Ramsey? , Luce?, Man I could go on. Top 20? Maybe but it's close. Now.....don't want any part of him. I was trying to stress most skilled, or talented, as opposed to best — your three were better players, IMO, but I don't think Luce or Ramsay could touch Thomas in terms of offensive ability. Danny could make a case — he had a great shot — but Thomas had far slicker hands. Quote
bob_sauve28 Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 It might be the worst idea that anyone has ever had about anything. Not taking four first round picks to sign Vanek was a worse idea, IMO Quote
inkman Posted May 30, 2017 Report Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Not taking four first round picks to sign Vanek was a worse idea, IMO I really, and I mean really hate rehashing this but if Darcy let Drury, Briere and Vanek all walk in one season, fans may have never come back. The tank was bad enough but just letting your 3 best players leave for no immediate return would have been career suicide for Darcy. Now, we can argue the merits of that but it just wasn't going to happen. Edited May 30, 2017 by inkman Quote
darksabre Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 I really, and I mean really hate rehashing this but if Darcy let Drury, Briere and Vanek all walk in one season, fans may have never come back. The tank was bad enough but just letting your 3 best players leave for no immediate return would have been career suicide for Darcy. Now, we can argue the merits of that but it just wasn't going to happen. Yup. In hindsight, letting Vanek walk might have worked. But it would have signaled the start of a rebuild immediately following two great playoff runs. No one would do that. Quote
nfreeman Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 Briere had more skill -- by a mile. Gare had a better shot, better speed (although every now and then Vanek showed a shocking burst -- but that was kinda the problem with him -- he only skated like that once in a while), better decision-making and equivalent hands. Soupy was a better skater and had a better slapper. If Rick Vaive counts as a Sabre, he was more skilled too. I missed most of the Hawerchuk era in Buffalo, but he was more skilled too. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 As a fan since 2005, Vanek was certainly the best winger I've ever seen on this team. I think we'd have a much different view of him if we had kept the co-captains and had a few more playoff runs in that time frame. He still managed to score 40 at one point after they left, as our best forward. Quote
bob_sauve28 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 I really, and I mean really hate rehashing this but if Darcy let Drury, Briere and Vanek all walk in one season, fans may have never come back. The tank was bad enough but just letting your 3 best players leave for no immediate return would have been career suicide for Darcy. Now, we can argue the merits of that but it just wasn't going to happen. I agree is was a good short term decision for Darcy. Buffalo fans not come back? Right! Sign a few free agents with the money they saved and the buzz and excitement would have returned. Obviously I was never a big Vanek fan. Didn't most of his success come against other teams second tier players? Quote
inkman Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 I agree is was a good short term decision for Darcy. Buffalo fans not come back? Right! Sign a few free agents with the money they saved and the buzz and excitement would have returned. Obviously I was never a big Vanek fan. Didn't most of his success come against other teams second tier players? I don't think I need to pontificate too long on my hatred for Vanek. He was who he was, a good scoring winger who never wasn't going to live up to fan expectations. Quote
bob_sauve28 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 I don't think I need to pontificate too long on my hatred for Vanek. He was who he was, a good scoring winger who never wasn't going to live up to fan expectations. Hey, if they get a decent contract I wouldn't hate him on a third line here, but the idea that he is a superstar or something is putting it too far Quote
dudacek Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 Briere had more skill -- by a mile. Gare had a better shot, better speed (although every now and then Vanek showed a shocking burst -- but that was kinda the problem with him -- he only skated like that once in a while), better decision-making and equivalent hands. Soupy was a better skater and had a better slapper. If Rick Vaive counts as a Sabre, he was more skilled too. I missed most of the Hawerchuk era in Buffalo, but he was more skilled too. Completely overlooked Briere - definitely agree there. Vaive's an interesting one, they were very similar players at their peaks. But Sabre Vaive couldn't touch Sabre Vanek. Hawerchuk might be top five. His playoff performance during the Mayday year was among the best displays I've ever seen by a Sabre. Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Briere had more skill -- by a mile. Gare had a better shot, better speed (although every now and then Vanek showed a shocking burst -- but that was kinda the problem with him -- he only skated like that once in a while), better decision-making and equivalent hands. Soupy was a better skater and had a better slapper. If Rick Vaive counts as a Sabre, he was more skilled too. I missed most of the Hawerchuk era in Buffalo, but he was more skilled too. No. Just no. Not even close. Briere is a career .72 PPG player, Vanek .79. If Briere had more skill by a mile, was he supremely lazy? I mean, c'mon, it's not like you can point to his 200-foot game as being better. Again. Vanek is criminally underappreciated because he wasn't the franchise player we needed him to be after the co-caps left. But he was a great offensive player. Vanek is easily a top-20 Sabre, and can make a case for top-10 in terms of skill. His worst season as a Sabre was better than Kane's best, whom people are perfectly willing to invest 7 years in. Edited May 31, 2017 by TrueBlueGED Quote
nfreeman Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 No. Just no. Not even close. Briere is a career .72 PPG player, Vanek .79. If Briere had more skill by a mile, was he supremely lazy? I mean, c'mon, it's not like you can point to his 200-foot game as being better. Again. Vanek is criminally underappreciated because he wasn't the franchise player we needed him to be after the co-caps left. But he was a great offensive player. Vanek is easily a top-20 Sabre, and can make a case for top-10 in terms of skill. His worst season as a Sabre was better than Kane's best, whom people are perfectly willing to invest 7 years in. Briere was an underachiever before Lindy got him. I haven't run the numbers but I'm confident they're substantially better than Vanek's if you start in 2005. And let's not forget playoff scoring. Quote
LGR4GM Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 No. Just no. Not even close. Briere is a career .72 PPG player, Vanek .79. If Briere had more skill by a mile, was he supremely lazy? I mean, c'mon, it's not like you can point to his 200-foot game as being better. Again. Vanek is criminally underappreciated because he wasn't the franchise player we needed him to be after the co-caps left. But he was a great offensive player. Vanek is easily a top-20 Sabre, and can make a case for top-10 in terms of skill. His worst season as a Sabre was better than Kane's best, whom people are perfectly willing to invest 7 years in. Vanek is top 15. He is better than Briere. I have a signed Vanek jersey and I love it. That said I don't think I trade Kane and replace him with Vanek. The skillsets are different. Quote
shrader Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 That's because the last time you were rooting for Vanek, he *was* ten years younger (more or less). That's some crazy rounding on display right there. Quote
LGR4GM Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 That's some crazy rounding on display right there. PH math. Quote
Doohicksie Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 That's some crazy rounding on display right there. Yeah I know. Hard to believe it's not even 4 years since he left. Seems like an eternity ago. Quote
thewookie1 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 If we trade Kane I would be very interested in being Vanek in for a year. Only because he's still pretty good and he could help our 2nd PP and shootouts. Use him more in the offensive zone and just let him snipe. He'd also get us out of our funk with the Bruins Quote
darksabre Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 Vanek taking feeds from O'Reilly would be so good. You know you guys want it. Quote
ubkev Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 Vanek taking feeds from O'Reilly would be so good. You know you guys want it. $50 says Vanek would pot 25 goals here next season. Quote
Sabel79 Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 $50 says Vanek would pot 25 goals here next season. With the centers available to him here, I'd put the floor at 25. Quote
ubkev Posted May 31, 2017 Report Posted May 31, 2017 With the centers available to him here, I'd put the floor at 25. Yet Ennis and Zemgus scored 12 goals combined. Quote
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