Hey JBot, Do Something Already!

[Derrico]

I like every option except #3.

 

I don't love having him on the team but it's one more season and then the cap hit is gone.  I don't care about the actual salary, I care about the cap hit and don't want it carrying over to next season (when Eichel's big deal and likely Reino's medium size deal kicks in).  In the interim, if he's playing where he should be, on the third pair, I am fine for one more season.  At worst, it gives Guhle time to develop in Rochester if needed.

[MattPie]

I like every option except #3.

 

I don't love having him on the team but it's one more season and then the cap hit is gone.  I don't care about the actual salary, I care about the cap hit and don't want it carrying over to next season (when Eichel's big deal and likely Reino's medium size deal kicks in).  In the interim, if he's playing where he should be, on the third pair, I am fine for one more season.  At worst, it gives Guhle time to develop in Rochester if needed.

 

I concurr. In a couple years, that 1.3M dead cap space is the difference between paying a UFA league minimum vs. $2M+. Looking at the UFA list, $2M buys you a player I've actually heard of (or Brian Elliot/Chad Johnson level backup GT), where the league minimum guys are nobodies.

[LGR4GM]

Our total number of contracts is not an issue. Gorges on the team this season is not an issue. We need him gone starting next year with all his cap. Maybe a new coach will get a bit more from him too. Don't compound a mistake by dragging it out another year. If he's that awful bury him in Rochester.

Edited June 13, 2017 by LGR4GM

[TrueBlueGED]

Here is the deal with Gorges. We all agree that he is at best an overpaid marginal NHL player at this point in his career. So what are our options

1) Keep him on the roster for one more year, pay him his 3.9 and then let him walk next summer. Not a completely terrible option as long as he is not in the top 6, we don't need some extra cap space or the contract space or the roster spot.

2) Send him down to the minors. This would save us 950K in cap, but we'd still be on the hook for the contract and $3.9 mill in actual salary. Could this actually help the Amerks? Did Rivet? This has the added feature of someone claiming him if we try to recall him and opening a roster spot in Buffalo.

3) Buy him out. Cost. 1.3 for the next two seasons. Cap saving this next season 2.6 mill. Cap cost the year after 1.3 Obviously the cap cost the second year could be an issue, but I doubt it. Also it removes the contract from our total, opens a roster spot for hopefully a cheap and better player and saves the organization $1.3 mill in actual $. The real advantage here is the opening of the roster spot and the actual money saved. In theory, this would give Jbot 2.6 mill to spend on a free agent upgrade. Considering that guys like Quincy and Seidenberg can be had for 1.5 this makes a great deal of sense.

4) Pray LV takes Gorges in the expansion draft. What kind of incentive would we have to do to get this done? A 2nd rd pick? A prospect? I'm not willing to waste an asset to get that done and I hope Jbot isn't either.

5) Trade him and retain some salary.

 

Obviously, the best thing that can happen is LV takes Gorges without an incentive from us. However, I doubt that is going to happen. No. 5 would be a miracle. It would save the roster spot, cap and real $, therefore it's highly unlikely. My least favorite option is No.1. Keeping him in Buffalo is a huge mistake IMHO. I don't mind No. 2 other then I think it's a waste to pay someone $3.9 mill to play in the minors. That leaves buying him out. Y'all may not like this option because you mistakenly feel the $1.3 mill in cap for year 2 will be a problem. Remember that's less then 2% of the cap.

Why are you unconcerned about $1.3M next season, but very concerned about $1.7M (the difference in cap between buying him out and burying him in Rochester)? Do you really think our cap situation is so bad that we can't afford a bottom of the barrel defenseman? Keep in mind, all of Eichel, Reinhart, and Kane, will be seeing raises if they're still here. Seems to me I'd much rather have extra cap space when that happens.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If I'm running a business I look to save real $ in addition to cap $.  While sending Gorges down saves $950k in cap, it still costs $3.9 mill in actual $ plus the cost (cap and real $) of his replacement.

 

So lets use an example for next season (2017-18)

 

Scenario 1; Sending Gorges down and replace with Kyle Quincey for $1.5.  

 

Cap cost: Gorges 2.85 + Quincey 1.5 = 4.35.  Real $; Gorges 3.9 + Quincey 1.5 = 5.4

 

Scenario 2: Buyout Gorges and replace with Quincey for $1.5

 

Cap cost: Gorges 1.3 + Quincey 1.5 = 2.8   Real $; Gorges 1.3 + Quincey 1.5 = 2.8

 

It's not even a contest both $ and cap wise.  The buyout is simply better.  

[qwksndmonster]

Who cares about real dollars?

[TrueBlueGED]

If I'm running a business I look to save real $ in addition to cap $. While sending Gorges down saves $950k in cap, it still costs $3.9 mill in actual $ plus the cost (cap and real $) of his replacement.

 

So lets use an example for next season (2017-18)

 

Scenario 1; Sending Gorges down and replace with Kyle Quincey for $1.5.

 

Cap cost: Gorges 2.85 + Quincey 1.5 = 4.35. Real $; Gorges 3.9 + Quincey 1.5 = 5.4

 

Scenario 2: Buyout Gorges and replace with Quincey for $1.5

 

Cap cost: Gorges 1.3 + Quincey 1.5 = 2.8 Real $; Gorges 1.3 + Quincey 1.5 = 2.8

 

It's not even a contest both $ and cap wise. The buyout is simply better.

If Pegula doesn't care about the real dollars, I don't see why you would. Secondly, your scenario is dependent upon the assumption we cannot sign Kyle Quincey for $1.5M unless we buy out Gorges. That need not be the case.

[Thorner]

The only thing I need to see before the end of Friday is an expansion-related deal for a Defenceman. All we've heard about constantly is how the market is going to be wide open for deals, this may be Botterill's best chance to add a guy to our D corps this offseason.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If Pegula doesn't care about the real dollars, I don't see why you would. Secondly, your scenario is dependent upon the assumption we cannot sign Kyle Quincey for $1.5M unless we buy out Gorges. That need not be the case.

 

Pegula cares about getting a good return on his investment.  Just because TM spent money like a drunken sailor doesn't mean Jbot will or should.  Kyle Quincey is an example, but signing a few vets on D is less likely with Gorges and his cap hit still in Buffalo.

[MattPie]

Pegula cares about getting a good return on his investment.  Just because TM spent money like a drunken sailor doesn't mean Jbot will or should.  Kyle Quincey is an example, but signing a few vets on D is less likely with Gorges and his cap hit still in Buffalo.

 

Pegula has shown little evidence of that. Maybe someday he'll tighten the purse strings, but so far he hasn't.

 

And, signing vets in 2018 and 2019 will be a little harder with 1.3M in dead space.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Pegula has shown little evidence of that. Maybe someday he'll tighten the purse strings, but so far he hasn't.

 

 

How do you know that wasn't a factor in the firing of TM?

 

1.3 in dead cap space is 1.7% of the cap.  We also have a rebate of 458k from Hodgson in 2018-19, which mean dead space of only 850K or 1.1% assuming we buy out Gorges.  This amount of money is meaningless and won't be an in issue in re-signing Sam or Jack or anyone else. 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by GASabresFan

[TrueBlueGED]

Pegula cares about getting a good return on his investment. Just because TM spent money like a drunken sailor doesn't mean Jbot will or should. Kyle Quincey is an example, but signing a few vets on D is less likely with Gorges and his cap hit still in Buffalo.

I'm not sure he does. Besides, long term, the ROI is franchise value.

How do you know that wasn't a factor in the firing of TM?

 

1.3 in dead cap space is 1.7% of the cap. We also have a rebate of 458k from Hodgson in 2018-19, which mean dead space of only 850K or 1.1% assuming we buy out Gorges. This amount of money is meaningless and won't be an in issue in re-signing Sam or Jack or anyone else.

If you insist on Hammymathing (yes, I made it a verb) this, the alternative could be a net of $1.8M in cap space next year with Hodgson's rebate plus the lack of buyout cost. We could sign two Quinceys!

[MattPie]

How do you know that wasn't a factor in the firing of TM?

 

1.3 in dead cap space is 1.7% of the cap.  We also have a rebate of 458k from Hodgson in 2018-19, which mean dead space of only 850K or 1.1% assuming we buy out Gorges.  This amount of money is meaningless and won't be an in issue in re-signing Sam or Jack or anyone else. 

 

I don't, but he hasn't shown a worry of spending money in the past. Firing GMTM is actually a prime example, he's now paying two NHL GM salaries where he could have just told GMTM: this is your budget, exceed it at your own peril.

 

$1.3M is the difference between signing Matt Ellis and Marcus Foligno to be your fourth liner. Which would you prefer?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't, but he hasn't shown a worry of spending money in the past. Firing GMTM is actually a prime example, he's now paying two NHL GM salaries where he could have just told GMTM: this is your budget, exceed it at your own peril.

 

 

 GMTM spent 81 mill on a team that was 5th worst in the NHL.  TP may not have given him a firm budget, but my guess is he expected better performance from a top 7 actual payroll.

[ubkev]

Something along the lines of "if I want to make money I'll drill another well.

GMTM spent 81 mill on a team that was 5th worst in the NHL. TP may not have given him a firm budget, but my guess is he expected better performance from a top 7 actual payroll.

Word!