Trade Sam or the 1st pick for Elusive Stud Defenceman?

[GASabresIUFAN]

There is no question Sam can be better, but mostly it has to do with consistency and that will come with work and playing one position. The next GM and coach will have to make a decision if Sam is our 3rd center or top line RW and leave him there. I think we'll be a better team with him as the 3rd center, especially considering our depth at RW in prospects. We need 3 scoring lines and with Sam playmaking ability he'll be at his best in that job.

[dudacek]

That wgr article is garage. It ###### about his goals dropping then casually mentions he had way more assists and more points this year. Absolute garbage article.

Give me Reinhart at center with a real coach for 2 years. I'm not trading him fit anything short of Hanifin +

It is the most agenda-driven piece of "reporting" I've seen in a long time.

The cherry-picking of facts is so obvious that you can't perceive the piece as anything other than a deliberate hit piece. There is no way Paul was unaware of the flaws in his argument. I am shocked a news director let that go out.

Or have news directors gone the way of copy editors?

[nfreeman]

Has anyone figured out what Hammy meant by "over an 82-game span?"

 

If it means anything other than "points per 82 games over the player's first 2 seasons," then 75% of the article is essentially dishonest.

 

Having said that: Reino didn't have a particularly good year. He went 25-odd games without a 5-on-5 goal. That is a low-impact player. We're entitled to expect more from him.

[TrueBlueGED]

It is the most agenda-driven piece of "reporting" I've seen in a long time.

The cherry-picking of facts is so obvious that you can't perceive the piece as anything other than a deliberate hit piece. There is no way Paul was unaware of the flaws in his argument. I am shocked a news director let that go out.

Or have news directors gone the way of copy editors?

News director...for the online component of a sports talk radio station? I'm not sure they've ever existed :lol:

[dudacek]

Has anyone figured out what Hammy meant by "over an 82-game span?"

If it means anything other than "points per 82 games over the player's first 2 seasons," then 75% of the article is essentially dishonest.

Having said that: Reino didn't have a particularly good year. He went 25-odd games without a 5-on-5 goal. That is a low-impact player. We're entitled to expect more from him.

If you want to criticize Reinhart with stats, use stats like the one you used.

Pretty much every player is going to average a higher points per game in seasons 3-8 than they did in seasons one and two.

He essentially compared Reinhart in high school to a bunch of other guys who are post-graduates and beyond.

Hamilton knows that.

The article is essentially dishonest.

[LGR4GM]

If you want to criticize Reinhart with stats, use stats like the one you used.

Pretty much every player is going to average a higher points per game in seasons 3-8 than they did in seasons one and two.

He essentially compared Reinhart in high school to a bunch of other guys who are post-graduates and beyond.

Hamilton knows that.

The article is essentially dishonest.

It's garbage. The sentence structure is erratic, he jumps points mid paragraph, his stats are beyond cherry picked, and honestly I was willing to let the Jack thing go but this is just trash reporting.

 

The weird thing, I think Reinhart should be looked at critically and you can use stats to evaluate him. Could have written a good article exploring Reinharts season and debating his progress. I want better from our team and from the news.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Also comparing Sam to Laine, Jack and Malkin is patently unfair. No one ever said or thought he'd be that kind of player. Dudacek, I think your comparisons are more to the point as you looked at similarly talented players regardless of where they were drafted.

[Norcal]

Didn't read the article, didn't need to

[I-90 W]

That article is just.. wow where do I begin? Calling Sam a dissapointmemt is ignorant, particularly for a professional in the media. I haven't heard anyone on this board go that far and were fans.

 

Calling Sam arrogant? I wouldn't blame Sam or Jack at this point if they never spoke to him again, not out of spite but simply self preservation.

[TrueBlueGED]

Presented without comment:

*all numbers at 5v5

 

          CF/60   CA/60   CF%     GF/60   GA/60   GF%    xGF/60  xGA/60  xGF%   SCF/60  SCA/60  SCF%

Reinhart  55.26   58.09   48.75   2.20    2.41    47.71  2.64    2.33    53.19  8.79    7.22    54.91

O'Reilly  54.81   57.18   48.94   2.10    2.13    49.67  2.48    2.52    49.58  7.96    8.04    49.76

Eichel    55.48   63.15   46.77   2.33    2.81    45.34  2.46    2.72    47.50  8.04    8.79    47.77

Kane      55.28   62.87   46.79   2.19    3.09    41.43  2.51    2.69    48.26  8.49    8.49    49.98

Okposo    52.22   59.24   46.85   2.05    2.10    49.45  2.42    2.55    48.77  7.39    7.35    50.14

 

Reinhart's ranks in each category:

CF/60: 3rd

CA/60: 2nd

CF%: 2nd

GF/60: 2nd

GA/60: 3rd

GF%: 3rd

xGF/60: 1st

xGA/60: 1st

xGF%: 1st

SCF/60: 1st

SCA/60: 1st

SC%: 1st

Edited April 25, 2017 by TrueBlueGED

[WildCard]

Yup, can't wait to trade him with Kane and his expiring contract right there and looming.

[nfreeman]

If you want to criticize Reinhart with stats, use stats like the one you used.

Pretty much every player is going to average a higher points per game in seasons 3-8 than they did in seasons one and two.

He essentially compared Reinhart in high school to a bunch of other guys who are post-graduates and beyond.

Hamilton knows that.

The article is essentially dishonest.

So he definitely used the other players' stats from their entire careers? I.e. not just their first 2 seasons?

 

Unbelievable.

 

If that's the case, how can we take anything he says seriously ever again?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So he definitely used the other players' stats from their entire careers? I.e. not just their first 2 seasons?

 

Unbelievable.

 

If that's the case, how can we take anything he says seriously ever again?

 

When could we ever have taken him seriously?

[WildCard]

If you want to criticize Reinhart with stats, use stats like the one you used.

Pretty much every player is going to average a higher points per game in seasons 3-8 than they did in seasons one and two.

He essentially compared Reinhart in high school to a bunch of other guys who are post-graduates and beyond.

Hamilton knows that.

The article is essentially dishonest.

I didn't read the article, but here is a good tweet from Kris Baker. Is this what you're referring to?

https://twitter.com/SabresProspects/status/856717053113323520

[dudacek]

I didn't read the article, but here is a good tweet from Kris Baker. Is this what you're referring to?

https://twitter.com/SabresProspects/status/856717053113323520

Original article is here: http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/sam-reinhart-living-his-draft-status

Looks like Baker read it and was offended as some of us were.

Edited April 25, 2017 by dudacek

[WildCard]

Original article is here: http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/sam-reinhart-living-his-draft-status

Looks like Baker read it and was offended as some of us were.

I'm so confused by this article. What the hell is going on in it? I can't tell where his numbers are coming from

 

As best I can tell, he's comparing each #2 overall pick's first two years in the league over an 82 game span? Not all of these guys entered the league at the same age, or on the same team, or the same minutes, opportunities, coaches...

 

Hamilton actively hates our two biggest sports stars since Kelly and Smith. What a moron

Edited April 25, 2017 by WildCard

[spndnchz]

How many more players will Hamsammich throw under the bus before the bus hits him smack in the face.?

[dudacek]

I'm so confused by this article. What the hell is going on in it? I can't tell where his numbers are coming from

 

As best I can tell, he's comparing each #2 overall pick's first two years in the league over an 82 game span? Not all of these guys entered the league at the same age, or on the same team, or the same minutes, opportunities, coaches...

 

 

No. He is comparing their career PPG averages and extrapolating over 82 games.

That's why it is so disingenuous.

 

How many more players will Hamsammich throw under the bus before the bus hits him smack in the face.?

He's a fool if he doesn't see the headlights. He's a dressing room reporter, not a columnist in an ivory tower.

He will wear this column and the Jack story in the room for a long time.

Professional suicide IMO.

Edited April 25, 2017 by dudacek

[WildCard]

No. He is comparing their career PPG averages and extrapolating over 82 games.

That's why it is so disingenuous

Wait really?? Hahahahahahah that's actually just hilarious  :lol:  :lol:

[TheAud]

I didn't read the article, but here is a good tweet from Kris Baker. Is this what you're referring to?

https://twitter.com/SabresProspects/status/856717053113323520

I like this simple, but normalized set of data to compare players in a similar situation (1st two years of their career, picked #2 overall). 

If Samson ends up being the "average" of the three guys above him and three guys below him on this list, I am happy with that: Landeskog, Seguin, Shanahan, Marleau, Van Riemsdyk, Barkov

 

Baker forgot to include Eichel. He would rank 4th on the list with Malkin, Heatley, Yashin above and B. Ryan, Falloon, and T. Linden below. I certainly hope Jack ends up with a better career than all but probably one of those guys. 

[That Aud Smell]

I'm so confused by this article. What the hell is going on in it? I can't tell where his numbers are coming from

 

As best I can tell, he's comparing each #2 overall pick's first two years in the league over an 82 game span? Not all of these guys entered the league at the same age, or on the same team, or the same minutes, opportunities, coaches...

 

Hamilton actively hates our two biggest sports stars since Kelly and Smith. What a moron

 

It took me a while to understand what was going on as well, and then -- once I did .... 

 

 

 

 

No. He is comparing their career PPG averages and extrapolating over 82 games.

That's why it is so disingenuous.

 

He's a fool if he doesn't see the headlights. He's a dressing room reporter, not a columnist in an ivory tower.

He will wear this column and the Jack story in the room for a long time.

Professional suicide IMO.

 

You can have concerns and reservations with Reinhart, and still see that article as an unadulterated hit piece without proper factual foundation.

 

Hamilton calls him arrogant. Says he became entitled and complacent.

 

[TrueBlueGED]

Hamilton calls him arrogant. Says he became entitled and complacent.

Perhaps not unlike a certain WGR beat reporter...

[WildCard]

Perhaps not unlike a most WGR beat reporters...

[GASabresIUFAN]

One of the first things I want to hear from the new brain trust is:

"Sam Reinhart will be a Sabre, he will be a centre, and I will surprised if he is not a very good one."

Sam has not been Laine or Draisaitl. And definitely not Matthews, Eichel or McDavid.

Don't let that overshadow what he has done:

First two seasons:

Reinhart 90 points

Barkov 60

Monahan 96

Drouin 42

Galchenyuk 58

Nugent-Hopkins 74

Huberdeau 59

Hall 95

Seguin 89

Johansen 33

Don't go to sleep on Sam.

He was playing out of position in a system poorly matched to his skill set.

I put pencil to paper and used his method to determine the 82 game pts per season for the 1st 2 years of recent similar 2nd overall picks.

 

Sam 45 pts

JStaal 35

Legwand 35

Seguin 45 (although he busted out his 2nd yr with 67 pts)

Spezza 56

Barkov 39

Landeskog 48

JVR 40

Ryan 68 (and it's been down hill ever since)

 

What does this tell us about Sam and his future? Nothing, except he isn't as much of an outlier as Hamilton suggested. What a joke of an article.

[matter2003]

Not as quickly as a trade. Hopefully, Guhle is the real deal. That leaves us with Risto, Guhle and McCabe. Need another stud now to go along with Bogo and Gorges as 5 & 6.

By all accounts Antipin is going to be a Sabre and should step into a top 4 pairing immediately