Eleven Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I might as well chime in on this character thing. I think it's 100% on the front office and not about the players one bit. A pretty clear picture has been painted of a lack of communication from the coach and GM. That's very easy to picture with the persona Murray presents. The whole thing clearly went off the rails in the last couple months and they need to go in a much different direction. Interesting & please stick around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I might as well chime in on this character thing. I think it's 100% on the front office and not about the players one bit. A pretty clear picture has been painted of a lack of communication from the coach and GM. That's very easy to picture with the persona Murray presents. The whole thing clearly went off the rails in the last couple months and they need to go in a much different direction. That's my reading of it as well. While you're here, have any insight for us on David Quinn as a coach vs. David Quinn as a recruiter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 #1 thing I want from the new GM: Do they have a good track record in the NHL Draft. The NHL Draft and development of young players is everything in today's NHL: rarely will you strike gold in FA and it cannot be relied upon. As far as the coach: Someone who has a track record of success at every stop and can tailor a system to best fit the players in place versus force feeding their style to players that may not fit. And yeah the other thing: Keep Brandon away from any decision making and let Pegula spend his $ and have awkward pressers otherwise stay out of the way and be a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 #1 thing I want from the new GM: Do they have a good track record in the NHL Draft. The NHL Draft and development of young players is everything in today's NHL: rarely will you strike gold in FA and it cannot be relied upon. As far as the coach: Someone who has a track record of success at every stop and can tailor a system to best fit the players in place versus force feeding their style to players that may not fit. And yeah the other thing: Keep Brandon away from any decision making and let Pegula spend his $ and have awkward pressers otherwise stay out of the way and be a fan. Good post, agreed 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Good post, agreed 100% I dont know if anyone knows this: But an organization that I would love to see the Sabres model themselves after is Anaheim: They consistently do well in the draft, make good trades and have built a great organization. Wish there was someone from that organization we can pry away as a GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I think the first answers the second. Tim Murray is a rumpled, foul-mouth, blunt-spoken, beer-swilling, just win baby kinda guy. When Terry says discipline and character, I think his definition is "the type of behaviour suited for church." Or as LGR succinctly put it: Sean McDermott. Tim Murray is the antithesis Character means having integrity Please stop the ###### about TPegs wanting people who attend church, that's a leftist slam against Christians as though going to church is somehow a bad thing The fact is character, integrity, honesty are essential qualities to leaders in every industry and business Read some leadership books people Jeez While TP might want better decorum, I have a hard time believing that this was all about decorum. The character thing (I gather it was reiterated lot) may be a cumulation of ROR and Kane arrests, but not neseccarily. If tpegs wants us to be more like Notre Dame fbs and less like a SEC team then fine. But I doubt he was talking about the players. Maybe he thought there was some shady stuff going on behind his back. That strengthens the theory of the Eichel story being leaked for leverage. Agreed, there is a lot of that on here. I agree that TP seems fed up with the snakepit quality that the organization seems to have. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it extends to the players, and if Kaner is indeed shown the door. Do you think Murray had no integrity? Because I think Pegula's issue was more style than substance. And how that laissez-faire style was permeating the organization. As for the anti-Christian thing, I think you are reading some political baggage from elsewhere into my comment. I didn't say bad, or good. Just that Pegula has a "type" in mind and that was a good way of illustrating the type. C'mon. I know you're down on TP, but do you really think he fired FGMTM purely for image reasons? i.e. that he's that shallow and foolish? The second bolded line kinda contradicts the first -- if the organization had gotten sloppy due to sloppiness at the top, isn't that inherently a real problem -- i.e. not just an image problem? I suppose that question presupposes that the sloppiness had manifested in the results -- but the results are freaking terrible, right? So is TP not justified in seeing a train wreck and being dissatisfied? I might as well chime in on this character thing. I think it's 100% on the front office and not about the players one bit. A pretty clear picture has been painted of a lack of communication from the coach and GM. That's very easy to picture with the persona Murray presents. The whole thing clearly went off the rails in the last couple months and they need to go in a much different direction. Woo-hoo! :o I agree with you and am happy to see you. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I might as well chime in on this character thing. I think it's 100% on the front office and not about the players one bit. A pretty clear picture has been painted of a lack of communication from the coach and GM. That's very easy to picture with the persona Murray presents. The whole thing clearly went off the rails in the last couple months and they need to go in a much different direction. I am of this mind too, happens with young talented folks trying to move up the ladder too fast. TM had his people but may have played too many games with those not quite there, hence the breakdown. Up front style is fine as long as it is tactful. Again TM came across as too much of a Bully. There are times to play the game and times to be tough and knowing when and how to do both is a talent I think TM can learn, but his inexperience at times showed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 That's my reading of it as well. While you're here, have any insight for us on David Quinn as a coach vs. David Quinn as a recruiter? Just posted it in the other thread. I will definitely ask around with my friends far more in tune with that program when I get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I dont know if anyone knows this: But an organization that I would love to see the Sabres model themselves after is Anaheim: They consistently do well in the draft, make good trades and have built a great organization. Wish there was someone from that organization we can pry away as a GM Honestly hadn't thought of them as someone to model ourselves after or to pick from. That's a great choice though, I wouldn't mind that one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 They've gone as far as Brian Kelly can take them, that's for sure. Brian Kelly is a joke. He was horrible last season. His playcalling lost us several games. My favorite was the NC State game ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I am of this mind too, happens with young talented folks trying to move up the ladder too fast. TM had his people but may have played too many games with those not quite there, hence the breakdown. Up front style is fine as long as it is tactful. Again TM came across as too much of a Bully. There are times to play the game and times to be tough and knowing when and how to do both is a talent I think TM can learn, but his inexperience at times showed. When questions start to pop up about a lack of structure and communication, it's completely natural for the very gruff guy like Murray to find himself on the chopping block. I can't picture someone like him ever correcting that type of issue. Maybe he's just a better fit as a completely behind the scenes guy in the scouting department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just posted it in the other thread. I will definitely ask around with my friends far more in tune with that program when I get the chance. Awesome, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Character means having integrity Please stop the ###### about TPegs wanting people who attend church, that's a leftist slam against Christians as though going to church is somehow a bad thing The fact is character, integrity, honesty are essential qualities to leaders in every industry and business Read some leadership books people Jeez No, it's just an observation that McD and Bylsma were very devout religious people, as the Pegulas are. And it's fair to ask if being religious tips the scale in Terry's mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I liked the general message Pegula presented today, but that might be fully the result of having low expectations. It was not the trainwreck I worried I'd see. He felt more like an owner than he has at any point before. I still worry that he's not the best equipped for finding the right people for these jobs, but I feel better about it than I did at 9am today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Blizzard Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Do you think Murray had no integrity? Because I think Pegula's issue was more style than substance. And how that laissez-faire style was permeating the organization. As for the anti-Christian thing, I think you are reading some political baggage from elsewhere into my comment. I didn't say bad, or good. Just that Pegula has a "type" in mind and that was a good way of illustrating the type. Fair enough From TPegs comments, I don't think he felt Murray was a leader. I liked him as a fan, but, I think he lacked the qualities of someone who sets strategy, builds consensus and drives execution. Clearly the owner(s) felt he didn't communicate (which is essential to leading) As for church, character -- I've made this point before, finding leaders that have character and integrity are paramount to building a winning culture. Nobody will change my mind there. Some folks believe strong faith is a proxy and an indication of character and integrity. I just don't like when generalizations are made, especially when the essential tenants of belief systems are in play. In the end, character matters, integrity matters and how someone demonstrates those qualities is more about behaviors and actions in real life then where or if they worship. I think T Pegs has the right vision, i.e. wants character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I liked the general message Pegula presented today, but that might be fully the result of having low expectations. It was not the trainwreck I worried I'd see. He felt more like an owner than he has at any point before. I still worry that he's not the best equipped for finding the right people for these jobs, but I feel better about it than I did at 9am today. Agree with this. He seemed genuinely pissed off IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 No, it's just an observation that McD and Bylsma were very devout religious people, as the Pegulas are. And it's fair to ask if being religious tips the scale in Terry's mind. I'm really trying to understand this, has Pegula done anything to lead you to believe that he bases employment on religious affiliation? Or are you just assuming that based on his own personal status? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Well, sounds like I didn't miss much. But we do know he didn't hire coach and feels he should have been more involved. So all the presupposition that his micro management got us to this point will now be played out with what sounds like him taking on a heavier handed approach for the next moves. We now know we can hold him accountable for the next moves made. May the force be with him and can that damn blind squirrel find that nut please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 When questions start to pop up about a lack of structure and communication, it's completely natural for the very gruff guy like Murray to find himself on the chopping block. I can't picture someone like him ever correcting that type of issue. Maybe he's just a better fit as a completely behind the scenes guy in the scouting department.True but also learning to hold fire at organizational level can be learned. Again it shows some immaturity on TM's part and DD's part is one of stubbornness or lack of talent as a coach. Though his personnel attitude was fine imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Blizzard Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 No, it's just an observation that McD and Bylsma were very devout religious people, as the Pegulas are. And it's fair to ask if being religious tips the scale in Terry's mind. What should tip the scale is whether someone operates in his/her life with a high degree of integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I'm really trying to understand this, has Pegula done anything to lead you to believe that he bases employment on religious affiliation? Or are you just assuming that based on his own personal status? He's said it before about his hires. Calling them 'men of faith' and, IIRC, 'good Christian men / families' It matters to him, when it shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I liked the general message Pegula presented today, but that might be fully the result of having low expectations. It was not the trainwreck I worried I'd see. He felt more like an owner than he has at any point before. I still worry that he's not the best equipped for finding the right people for these jobs, but I feel better about it than I did at 9am today. Same. I thought his approach was more businesslike. It sounds like the loose management happy fun time structure is over with. He tried to be "cool hip boss" and it bit him in the ass. Maybe that style worked in the fracking world. It clearly didn't work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Which is stupid - because that plan was never fully enacted - the LaFontaine model was never finished. Do you hate the owners or just the team in general. Never seem to say anything constructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) He's said it before about his hires. Calling them 'men of faith' and, IIRC, 'good Christian men / families' It matters to him, when it shouldn't. If that is the case then fair play, just wondering where the train of thought is coming from as this is news to me. Edited April 21, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 He's said it before about his hires. Calling them 'men of faith' and, IIRC, 'good Christian men / families' It matters to him, when it shouldn't. I guess we know where you stand. So I'll go with the other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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