Sorry to Say: The Tank Was A Swing And A Miss

[Andrew Amerk]

Just look at the Marlies vs Amerks standings this season.

[7+6=13]

I don't see much in Samson when I think about difference maker. I think we have decent players in Sam, O'Reilly, Kane and Okposo with difference makers in Risto and Eichel. Unfortunately, the rest of the team is very interchangeable. This team is still 2 - 3 years away as we wait (and hope) for Nylander and some others to develop. 

 

When I look at the speed and skill going on with some of these better teams in the playoffs, it really shows me that Buffalo is not even close to competing. Just look at the last 10 games of the season...it's quite pathetic as to how this group is put together.

 

You feel this way because you don't understand the rebuild isn't over.  Did you think we were going to be comparable to the legit playoff teams - this year?  If you did then just blame yourself for having unrealistic expectations. 

[Crusader1969]

Eichel is 20 years old and already near a point per game player and the Tank was a Fail? Omg, talk about being impatient!

 

Columbus goes from 76 points to over 100 the following season. How did they manage such a turn around? How can you assume the Sabres can't do the same?

 

I still can't believe anyone would prefer not to have Tanked. How many years have mediocre hockey do you need to watch before you realize being stuck in the middle isn't working?

You feel this way because you don't understand the rebuild isn't over.  Did you think we were going to be comparable to the legit playoff teams - this year?  If you did then just blame yourself for having unrealistic expectations.

 

 

100% agree!

 

When the forward lines next season have Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander and Carrier full time and Guhle is on blue line - there won't be many teams faster than the Sabres. Most of which will be coming next season.

[matter2003]

This is why I am hoping the next head coach of the Buffalo Sabres is a good one. And yes, we needed a new GM, I don't think that is a stretch. Lets see where Tim lands next. We need serious help on D before we play Risto to the point he gets injured. That will involve enticing a free agent who isn't past his prime and that will be an enormous task to lure that individual to Buffalo. Winning is not the culture here right now and that is why it will be difficult . Don't kid yourself. When others are competing for free agent services you had better make it an enticing offer. If we cannot get a free agent, I am hoping we have a great head coach who will school our young defenders to at least get us by in that area and allow the kids to gain valuable experience at the NHL level. These next 2 decisions are crucial for Pegula. We need a team President as well so TPegs can allow hockey people to just look after the on ice product and he can remain just a fan! I am basing a lot of what I,m saying on the NHL teams performance and how Rochester looks with our young guys (and truth be told, they look like crap) So coaching at both levels doesn't seem to be cutting it right now or our scouting is poor or a combo of both. i believe we have some good young guys on the Sabres who would benefit from a different style of play under a different system. We are about to see if this is true for 2017. As for your comment above, you noticed this also yet TM stuck with Dan anyhow. This is why TM had to go as I do not believe Bylsma would have been canned if TM was still the GM.

We are supposedly signing Antipin from the KHL who should be able to step right into the top 4 on D

[eman]

Omg

 

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Nope, my rant is my rant. Hate it or love it, Tired of excuse after excuse from this organization. Time to put up or shut up. Columbus did not tank and Torts is a better coach then he is given credit for, hence the improvement in points in Columbus. I still dispute the fact on how fast the Sabres are compared to the competition aside from Jack. As for watching mediocre hockey, what do you think you just watched this season? In fact it was worse then mediocre with Dan's boring system.

 

As for unrealistic expectations? Who on this board did not think the Sabres would actually challenge for a playoff spot this season? Most of us did, myself included. Go back and read old posts to start this season. Don't give me that "now we were being unrealistic" Monday morning QB stuff.

Crusader, I wish I still had your optimism, but at my age now I will take the definite wait and see attitude with this club. I have heard "How sweet it will be" far too many times now when it comes to this hockey club. I bitch because I care, probably way too much in actuality but the results are the results.

Bottom line is this: I hope you guys are all absolutely correct in your assessment of this club and I am wrong. I love the Sabres but I am not blinded as a fan. Way too many disappointments in my tenure as a fan and way too many inept managerial decisions in my opinion.

 

I love Jack Eichel, he is the best thing that came out of this tank and for him I am grateful. He is not happy right now and I hope you can all see that. He said what he said because he gives a and even at only 20 years old, he will bolt the moment he is able to if things don't start to really turn around. We have had 6 years of no playoffs going on 7. Remember they finished 17 points out. 17!!! That is not easy to make up and maybe even surpass to make it next season. Believe me, if they don't make it next season Jack's frustration will increase as will mine and I will read on here that the following season will be the one once again.

 

God bless you guys for keeping the faith but this past season and the way it ended  was seriously troubling with the current roster and should give all of us reasons to be wary.

 

The coach decision is so important coming up as is the new GM. Maybe one of the most important in the history of this club as we do not need to approach a decade of playoff absences like the Bills. That is a disgrace. Remember, we used to laugh at the Leaf fans and their organization.

 

End of rant.

[eman]

Just look at the Marlies vs Amerks standings this season.

Exactly! Thank you for that. The Amerks sucked plain and simple and that is our feeder system. The Marlies did not. So excuse me fro not being all that optimistic about our "future stars".

 

Again, is it our scouting or minor league coaching or both?

 

As for Baptiste, Fasching, Carrier and all these future stars and how fast they are. You know what I didn' t see in their short stints in the lineup? Finish around the net. The Sabres achilles heel in far too many seasons. They look like the same old same old.

 

You don't have to like what I am saying and I get that. But I have seen this show far too many times. You have to score in this league to win. Those shootout points  are far too valuable to piss away as well. Net finish is important as is speed.

[Sabre fan]

thinking the tank appears to be a miss because the leafs have surpassed us by a mile (even their farm team is better now), but the truth is we did not have much of anything before th e"tank" and now we have a lot of good young players that are being wasted in our crappy system that was used at both levels (NHL and AHL).

 

It is vital we get a new coach that has babs outlook, which is play young guys and let them learn as they go. The way we used Bailey, Baptaiste Nelson (who I feel bad for cause I thought we promised him lots of ice time and instead he gets buried in Rochester) among others was terrible.  we have good young players that need to play and not be punished every time they make a minor mistake. I would rather see a young guy playing and learning instead of our aging vets who are never going to be part of any sucessful Sabre team in the future

[GoPre]

Eichel is 20 years old and already near a point per game player and the Tank was a Fail? Omg, talk about being impatient!

 

Columbus goes from 76 points to over 100 the following season. How did they manage such a turn around? How can you assume the Sabres can't do the same?

 

I still can't believe anyone would prefer not to have Tanked. How many years have mediocre hockey do you need to watch before you realize being stuck in the middle isn't working?

 

 

100% agree!

 

When the forward lines next season have Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander and Carrier full time and Guhle is on blue line - there won't be many teams faster than the Sabres. Most of which will be coming next season.

 

 

Not getting injured.  Columbus had a number of critical injuries in the 2015/16 season.  Going into that season Columbus was projected to go far.  

Edited April 22, 2017 by GoPre

[eman]

thinking the tank appears to be a miss because the leafs have surpassed us by a mile (even their farm team is better now), but the truth is we did not have much of anything before th e"tank" and now we have a lot of good young players that are being wasted in our crappy system that was used at both levels (NHL and AHL).

 

It is vital we get a new coach that has babs outlook, which is play young guys and let them learn as they go. The way we used Bailey, Baptaiste Nelson (who I feel bad for cause I thought we promised him lots of ice time and instead he gets buried in Rochester) among others was terrible.  we have good young players that need to play and not be punished every time they make a minor mistake. I would rather see a young guy playing and learning instead of our aging vets who are never going to be part of any sucessful Sabre team in the future

My question again comes to "Why did we not have much?" Ask yourself that? That goes to my point that if that was indeed the case, then Sabres management was inept, as was scouting to not draft and stockpile good young talent. That si their job and they have failed. Yes, I see some good players in our core lineup but we will need a coach that can develop a system (or already has one that allows them to excel.

 

Not to mention teach the youngsters like Babcock does. Listen, the Leaf defence isn't all that strong but they know their assignments and they have Andersen to bail them out when they screw up. Until we make the playoffs and can remain competitive in that round (and the Leafs are playing Washington man for man, they are staying right with them-and the Caps were the Presidents Trophy winners) The Leafs may lose that series but the experience those youngsters gained is invaluable, as is their confidence. Plus the speed of those teams is immeasurably faster then what I am seeing in this current Sabre club.

 

It all point to management. Again.

Not getting injured.  Columbus had a number of critical injuries in the 2015/16 season.  Going into that season Columbus was projected to go far.  

And this is with Torts as coach. Whom no one wanted to see behind the Sabres bench on these blogs.

[Sabre fan]

I agree the Leafs are far faster because they play a bunch of young speedsters...we have good young fast players too, but it appears they are being held back for whatever reason. if the leafs had Bailey, Baptsite, Fasching, nelson etc they'd be playing them for sure. They are good young fast players that babs would love. we are slow becuase our vets are slow, not our young players. they are not being used and when they do come up to the big club, they would get a game or two then be sent back down. Rochester apparently also preached the same outdated system that was used so successfully (haha) with the big club

 

and yes, the Leafs defense isn;t very good and it's funny becuase I live north of Toronto and all I heard for years was how the fans hated Kadri, JVR, especially gardiner among others who are now thriving under Babs and are loved again by the fans. coaching and system sure have made a ton of difference for that team

[eman]

I agree the Leafs are far faster because they play a bunch of young speedsters...we have good young fast players too, but it appears they are being held back for whatever reason. if the leafs had Bailey, Baptsite, Fasching, nelson etc they'd be playing them for sure. They are good young fast players that babs would love. we are slow becuase our vets are slow, not our young players. they are not being used and when they do come up to the big club, they would get a game or two then be sent back down. Rochester apparently also preached the same outdated system that was used so successfully (haha) with the big club

 

and yes, the Leafs defense isn;t very good and it's funny becuase I live north of Toronto and all I heard for years was how the fans hated Kadri, JVR, especially gardiner among others who are now thriving under Babs and are loved again by the fans. coaching and system sure have made a ton of difference for that team

I went to Sabre pre season games when Kadri was a rookie and he had some great hands. Don Cherry liked the kid and so did I. I kept telling my friends who were Leaf fans: "Hey, if you don't want him, I'll gladly take him". Look at him now. A pest who has a decent set of hands and skills. I just hope our young guys learn to finish around the net. They may be fast and maybe they got too excited in their short stints with the big club. But the Sabre achilles heel is scoring and has been for quite some time and we will need secondary scoring as the opposition will focus on Jack's line first and foremost.

 

Here's to being optimistic over our next head coach!

[bunomatic]

The marlies have been better than the Americans for a very long time. Pre tank era for both teams the Marlies were better. The leafs/Marlies are a better run org. That much is obvious. But the tank can not be judged yet. This past season the Sabres were expected to challenge for a playoff spot. They took a step back. Now with Terrence P trying his best to burn it down again we may step waaaaaay back. Thats not on the tank. Thats on a clueless owner.

[WildCard]

I honestly won't​ read massive posts most of the time, especially if they're one giant block of texts. Take that fwiw

[GoPre]

I honestly won't​ read massive posts most of the time, especially if they're one giant block of texts. Take that fwiw

 

Same here.  Usually take a look at people's responses to get an idea of what the post was about. 

Edited April 22, 2017 by GoPre

[Jsixspd]

I honestly won't​ read massive posts most of the time, especially if they're one giant block of texts. Take that fwiw

Yup - one giant paragraph -  the poster is free to do whatever he wants - but I'm just as free not to read it.  I'm much more likely to read a post that's shorter, OR  a longer post that's broken up into paragraphs so its a structured read.  

[MattPie]

Re: tanks  I don't remember all the teams listed, but I know it included:

Hawks: Kane and Toews (#1 and #3 picks)

 

Boston: Seguin in their cup run was a #2 pick (gotten from the Leafs for Kessel, Kessel was the Bruins #5 overall pick in 2006)

 

Kings: coming out of the 2004-05 lockout, they had a run of bad seasons where they were tied for last one year (with Tampa) and top 10 picks for a few more. They picked 11, 4, 2, and 5 coming out of the lockout before returning to the playoffs. (that #4 was Thomas Hickey, whom they lost to NYI on waivers, so these quality hockey mega-brains in LA messed up a #4 pick)

 

Habs: I don't really consider them a force. They've ridden one the best goalies in the league but I can't recall thinking, "MTL really has a shot this year". So perennial playoffs yes, contender, not really.

Edited April 24, 2017 by MattPie

[apuszczalowski]

Re: tanks I don't remember all the teams listed, but I know it included:

Hawks: Kane and Toews (#1 and #3 picks)

 

Boston: Seguin in their cup run was a #2 pick (gotten from the Leafs for Kessel, Kessel was the Bruins #5 overall pick in 2006)

 

Kings: coming out of the 2004-05 lockout, they had a run of bad seasons where they were tied for last one year (with Tampa) and top 10 picks for a few more. They picked 11, 4, 2, and 5 coming out of the lockout before returning to the playoffs. (that #4 was Thomas Hickey, whom they lost to NYI on waivers, so these quality hockey mega-brains in LA messed up a #4 pick)

 

Habs: I don't really consider them a force. They've ridden one the best goalies in the league but I can't recall thinking, "MTL really has a shot this year". So perennial playoffs yes, contender, not really.

but none of those were actual tanks. A tank is when you intentionally throw a season or 2 going into it with the goal of losing and getting the #1 overall pick. What those teams did was a basic rebuild. Chicago was a bad team with poor management that didn't want to spend the money and it wasn't until the son took over and put proper hockey guys in place did they successfully rebuild. Kings and Bruins were just straight rebuilds.

 

Getting the #1 pick (or high picks) in the draft doesn't mean a team is or has tanked.

[thewookie1]

but none of those were actual tanks. A tank is when you intentionally throw a season or 2 going into it with the goal of losing and getting the #1 overall pick. What those teams did was a basic rebuild. Chicago was a bad team with poor management that didn't want to spend the money and it wasn't until the son took over and put proper hockey guys in place did they successfully rebuild. Kings and Bruins were just straight rebuilds.

 

Getting the #1 pick (or high picks) in the draft doesn't mean a team is or has tanked.

But in our case we had no way of naturally creating the situation those teams were in. Our franchise is certainly stable and we were trapped in 7-10th place. The loss of Drury and Briere destroyed us because we lacked the engine to drive our otherwise nice boat into port. The only way to truly get a new engine is drafting high or getting incredibly lucky. We tried using oars(Adam, Roy,Hodgson,Ennis) but that isn't enough to win a Cup. We were in a sense a lesser version of what Montreal is now. Great team that you really don't see as a Cup contender.

 

Was it beautiful, far from it but there was no other realistic route to fixing the old core.

[MattPie]

I'm not sure I see that much difference between the Hawks willfully bad management (coming from the top, the owner not wanting to spend money) for a decade and a team ruthlessly setting up their future by sacrificing results in the short term.

[apuszczalowski]

I'm not sure I see that much difference between the Hawks willfully bad management (coming from the top, the owner not wanting to spend money) for a decade and a team ruthlessly setting up their future by sacrificing results in the short term.

the difference would be that Chicago wasn't trying to lose to get better, they were just trying to turn a profit no matter the results. It didn't matter to them if they finished in the middle or bottom of the league, as long as they made a profit, almost similar to what many thought of the TG ownership era Sabres. Wins and losses weren't the goals, staying out of the red was.

[apuszczalowski]

But in our case we had no way of naturally creating the situation those teams were in. Our franchise is certainly stable and we were trapped in 7-10th place. The loss of Drury and Briere destroyed us because we lacked the engine to drive our otherwise nice boat into port. The only way to truly get a new engine is drafting high or getting incredibly lucky. We tried using oars(Adam, Roy,Hodgson,Ennis) but that isn't enough to win a Cup. We were in a sense a lesser version of what Montreal is now. Great team that you really don't see as a Cup contender.

 

Was it beautiful, far from it but there was no other realistic route to fixing the old core.

there's plenty of other options to rebuild then just tank to get the #1 overall. And if the carrot wasn't McDavid I almost guarantee few would have been on board with it. The key to rebuilding isn't getting and collecting a bunch of low picks, it's having a damn good hockey department making the decisions and finding the talent everywhere, whether it be free agency, all rounds of the draft, Europe,college free agents, etc. That's what the Sabres have been missing, someone who can find the hidden gems and assemble a good team. It's why it took so long for Edmonton to get back to where they are now, it's why the Leafs are the new young darlings of the league. They now have management teams who are able to make the moves to build a good team. Trading Hall for Larson looms much better now for the Pokers then it did when it happened. Think the leafs sniff the playoffs without Babcock and Lamorello on board? Anyone can bottom a team out and draft in the top spots, but not everyone can turn that team around and make it a success.

[IKnowPhysics]

Omg

 

Use

 

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Nope

 

There are many problems with Eman's snow jobs. The one that's the most blatant, and the one that I will limit my discussion to, is related to his overt support of Leninism. Here's the story: Eman's taunts are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, “bunk”—an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well—because this is a free country, and I claim we ought to keep it that way.  If you're like most people you just shrug your shoulders whenever you hear about Eman's latest lazy strictures. When your shoulders get tired of shrugging I hope you'll realize that we must always be mindful of the special needs of the least privileged members of our anti-Eman movement. We need even their help to make pretentiousness unfashionable.  I am not interested in furthering arguments that are baseless and completely unsupported by the facts. No, scratch that. Let me instead make the much stronger claim that it strikes me as amusing that Eman complains about people who do nothing but complain. Well, news flash! He does nothing but complain. He is guilty of at least one criminal offense. In addition, Eman frequently exhibits less formal criminal behavior such as deliberate and even gleeful cruelty, explosive behavior, and a burning desire to glorify the things that everyone else execrates. What's the best way to love the Earth and everything that flowers and crawls upon it? That's actually a tough nut to crack. The answer is related the way that Eman recently claimed that views not informed by radical critique implicitly promote hegemonic values. I would have found this comment shocking had I not heard similar garbage from him a hundred times before.  Unlike Eman, when I make a mistake I'm willing to admit it. Consequently, if—and I'm bending over backwards to maintain the illusion of “innocent until proven guilty”—he were not actually responsible for trying to clear-cut ancient forest lands, then I'd stop saying that Eman claims that he is a spokesman for God. That claim illustrates a serious reasoning fallacy, one that is pandemic in his -and-bull stories. Then again, some deluded, philopolemical know-it-alls actually avow that one can understand the elements of a scientific theory only by reference to the social condition and personal histories of the scientists involved. This is the kind of muddled thinking that Eman is encouraging with his ventures. Even worse, all those who raise their voice against this brainwashing campaign are denounced as callous Bolsheviks. Eman will make things worse long before he can convert me into one of his operatives. His companions tend to fall into the mistaken belief that ultracrepidarianism provides an easy escape from a life of frustration, unhappiness, desperation, depression, and loneliness, mainly because they live inside an Eman-generated illusion world and talk only with each other.  Eman has blood on his hands. Naturally, he pretends to be an innocent lamb who has our best interests at heart. We all know the reality: If Eman really had our best interests at heart, he wouldn't squander irreplaceable treasures.  Some day, in the far, far future, Eman will realize that he has neither honor nor integrity, nor even knows what those words mean. This realization will sink in slowly but surely and will be accompanied by a comprehension of how you should check out some of the things Eman is saying about presenteeism. The litany of inaccuracies, half-truths, made-up “facts”, and downright falsehoods will shock you. And I won't even bother mentioning that Eman is secretly planning to introduce changes without testing them first. I realize that that may sound rather conspiratorial and far-fetched to most people, which is why you need to understand that Eman says that his deeds are Holy Writ. What balderdash! What impudence! What treachery!  Eman seems absolutely incapable of understanding that he has indicated that if we don't let him fund, assemble, and train ignorant scapegraces to ignore compromise and focus solely on his personal agenda then he'll be forced to prevent me from sleeping soundly at night. That's like putting rabid attack dogs in silk suits. In other words, Eman has issued us a thinly veiled threat that's intended primarily to scare us away from the realization that what really irks me is that he has presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let him manufacture outrage at his adversaries by attributing to them all classes of uppish artifices or he'll inculcate morally corrupt antics.  I want to unify our community. Eman, in contrast, wants to drive divisive ideological wedges through it. He has only one goal: to install a puppet government that pledges allegiance to his militant faction. If our goal is to give him a rhadamanthine warning not to prime the pump of onanism, then we must consider various means to that end. We must all face the storm and stress of speaking up and speaking out against Eman. This exercise will, at the very least, demonstrate to the world that I want to make this clear so that those who do not understand deeper messages embedded within sarcastic irony—and you know who I'm referring to—can process my point.  Eman promotes a victimization hierarchy. He and his protégés appear at the top of the hierarchy, naturally, and therefore believe that they deserve to be given more money, support, power, etc. than anyone else. Other groups, depending on Eman's view of them, are further down the list. At the bottom are those of us who realize that if you've ever read a Web site's terms of use then many characteristics of Eman's flights of fancy will sound like the “what you're not allowed to post” section. They're unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, and otherwise objectionable. Or, to restate that concept without all the legal jargon, Eman does not merely fleece us. He does so consciously, deliberately, willfully, and methodically.  We must show some backbone. As mentioned above, however, that is not enough. It is necessary to do more. It is necessary to break away from the peloton and explain the Eman factor in the equation of fascism. Admittedly, his sense of intellectual superiority did drop off a bit once people started realizing that he should put his own house in order before he tells others what to do. Unfortunately, Eman's overconfidence and companion disdain for rational thinking have come back with a vengeance, finding energetic expression in sappy press releases, obtrusive fibs, and neo-addlepated threats. I acknowledge freely and make no apology for the fact that I once considered it reasonable for breathtakingly unprofessional flimflammers to trick us into trading freedom for serfdom. But now I know that he always puts a fugleman in charge of damming the flow of effective communication. That way, Eman can feign innocence, as he wasn't the one who did anything wrong. In fact, he can easily deny that if we take his slurs to their logical conclusion, we see that one day, he will declare that serfdom and slavery do not represent oppression unless the serfs or the slaves themselves “articulate” that oppression. In short, Eman's spleeny goals have done much to do away with intellectual honesty. I propose, therefore, that we respond by doing what we can to build a true community of spirit and purpose based on mutual respect and caring.

[I-90 W]

That was pure, unadulterated savagery.

[WildCard]

I tried IKP, but I only got 1/2 way through. FWIW I never read Eman's posts, cause they're all long af and no breaks, but yours was pretty funny

[spndnchz]

Ultracrepidarianism? Word of the day toilet paper?