Sorry to Say: The Tank Was A Swing And A Miss

[Swedesessed]

Two years before Connor McDavid was slated to be the Next One and the next great player in NHL history, the Buffalo Sabres set sight on providing us the best chance to land McDavid. And of course, it didn't happen (not that Bettman would allow it anyhow, Toronto almost won that lottery and had the better chance at the end then Buffalo, what a 'shock' that was)

 

Now the Sabres get Jack Eichel, as the next 'Big 4' come into the NHL. And what do you know, it appears that of those 4 (McDavid Matthews, Laine and Eichel), Jack will end up being #4. And it figures this would happen.

 

There is just something about Jack to me that is missing. He will put up a lot of points no doubt, but I just wonder if he will be a more 'talk and less action' type of guy and will leave when he can.

 

Here are the issues I see or foresee for the Sabres:

 

1. Buffalo will bend over backwards to keep Eichel and make him happy at all costs: The fear of losing Eichel will give him too much power and say. Not a recipe for success if you ask me. (Lebron's first tenure in Cleveland as a reference point)

 

2. Russ Brandon: I don't care what the talk is or the spin is: As long as this snake has a way in this or the Buffalo Bills organization: NOTHING will change. Tell me he is just in marketing: Ill tell you that I have ocean properties in South Dakota. His paws are in this organization. Look at the team's track record with this clown heavily involved: Why in the WORLD is he still around?

 

3. Babcock and the Leafs: Sorry fellas and ladies, the Leafs won the tank wars. Aided some by the league to make sure they got that top pick and landing the coach that we didn't has cemented this. Toronto will be a top destination again. The Sabres will need to be virtually flawless in the off-seasons to keep up.

 

Have at it.

 

 

 

 

[WildCard]

Jack Eichel, still not as good as Matthews. 

Two years before Connor McDavid was slated to be the Next One and the next great player in NHL history, the Buffalo Sabres set sight on providing us the best chance to land McDavid. And of course, it didn't happen (not that Bettman would allow it anyhow, Toronto almost won that lottery and had the better chance at the end then Buffalo, what a 'shock' that was)

 

Now the Sabres get Jack Eichel, as the next 'Big 4' come into the NHL. And what do you know, it appears that of those 4 (McDavid Matthews, Laine and Eichel), Jack will end up being #4. And it figures this would happen.

 

There is just something about Jack to me that is missing. He will put up a lot of points no doubt, but I just wonder if he will be a more 'talk and less action' type of guy and will leave when he can.

 

Here are the issues I see or foresee for the Sabres:

 

1. Buffalo will bend over backwards to keep Eichel and make him happy at all costs: The fear of losing Eichel will give him too much power and say. Not a recipe for success if you ask me. (Lebron's first tenure in Cleveland as a reference point)

 

2. Russ Brandon: I don't care what the talk is or the spin is: As long as this snake has a way in this or the Buffalo Bills organization: NOTHING will change. Tell me he is just in marketing: Ill tell you that I have ocean properties in South Dakota. His paws are in this organization. Look at the team's track record with this clown heavily involved: Why in the WORLD is he still around?

 

3. Babcock and the Leafs: Sorry fellas and ladies, the Leafs won the tank wars. Aided some by the league to make sure they got that top pick and landing the coach that we didn't has cemented this. Toronto will be a top destination again. The Sabres will need to be virtually flawless in the off-seasons to keep up.

 

Have at it.

You do realize that

 

1) So will Edmonton, Toronto, and Winnipeg? Not the Tanks fault, this is just a product of having good players

 

2) How in the hell is this part of the Tank?

 

3) Again, how is this part of our Tank?

 

 

This thread is a swing and a miss

[Eleven]

How did Toronto have a better chance at the end than Buffalo?

 

And if the NHL wanted to screw Buffalo and reward Toronto, how come Toronto didn't finish second?

[Randall Flagg]

Tanks are easy to up and we up.

[LGR4GM]

Jack Eichel is better than Auston Matthews. 

Tanks are easy to ###### up and we ###### up.

No we didn't. Imagine being Arizona in 2015. This the tank failed crap is hilarious when the 2 players we got from it won't hit their prime for another 2-4 years. Talk about overreacting damn. 

[WildCard]

Jack Eichel is better than Auston Matthews. 

No we didn't. Imagine being Arizona in 2015. This the tank failed crap is hilarious when the 2 players we got from it won't hit their prime for another 2-4 years. Talk about overreacting damn. 

Flagg and I are being sarcastic ;)

[Stoner]

Oh, dear, let's all clutch our pearls. It's a truth-snake in the grass!!!! Aiiiieeeee.

[Randall Flagg]

Jack Eichel is better than Auston Matthews.

 

No we didn't. Imagine being Arizona in 2015. This the tank failed crap is hilarious when the 2 players we got from it won't hit their prime for another 2-4 years. Talk about overreacting damn.

I'm not being sarcastic. Toronto's tank last year was good. We acquired a ridiculous amount of assets and have so little to show in comparison it's ridiculous. We accomplished the goal of getting Jack but not of building a winning hockey team because we are so far from being a winning organization that any moves from here to that point cannot in good faith be called part of the tank to me.

[qwksndmonster]

I'm not being sarcastic. Toronto's tank last year was good. We acquired a ridiculous amount of assets and have so little to show in comparison it's ridiculous. We accomplished the goal of getting Jack but not of building a winning hockey team because we are so far from being a winning organization that any moves from here to that point cannot in good faith be called part of the tank to me.

We don't have little to show. We have good talent on the roster. With an effective coach we're in the playoffs this year.

[WildCard]

We don't have little to show. We have good talent on the roster. With an effective coach we're in the playoffs this year.

Bingo bango bongo

[LGR4GM]

Someone start work the Miller trade as list the assets we got from the tank. I'm far to lazy but I'd be curious.

[I-90 W]

Eh, Sam and Jack were worth it. Just need a new coach, drop some dead weight, and a better defense.

[pi2000]

The Leafs didn't tank.   They got lucky and won the lottery, and won the Babcock sweepstakes.... because that's where Babcock wanted to go all along, it wasn't about money or roster.    

 

The Leafs lowest point total the past 5 years was 68 points.   Meanwhile BUF put up back to back seasons of 52 and 54 points, which, naturally, will take longer to recover from.

 

Just because the Leafs got lucky and won the lottery without tanking, doesn't mean BUF's tank strategy was a failure.   

[I-90 W]

Someone start work the Miller trade as list the assets we got from the tank. I'm far to lazy but I'd be curious.

 

Three years later what we have left from the long trade chain of Miller/ Ott, Myers/ Stafford/ Armia/ Lemieux and 2015 #21 pick is Kane/ Bogosian, Lehner and Jason Kasdorf.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan

[Randall Flagg]

Samson was not worth a 54 point season. And I love Samson. 

[Drunkard]

To ignore the O'Reilly trade, the tank was still worth it in my eyes. I'd rather have Eichel and (maybe one day when DB is gone) Reinhart as our top centers than Tyler Ennis, Cy Hgsn, and Zemgus Girgensons.

[qwksndmonster]

Samson was not worth a 54 point season. And I love Samson.

Samson wasn't the target, though. McEichel (blech) was.

[Randall Flagg]

Samson wasn't the target, though. McEichel (blech) was.

Right but we lost on purpose for 2 years. Losing 2 seasons for Eichel is not worth it, I'm not even sure losing 1 is at this point, and then having that extra one where we picked this guy we plan on jerking around to develop into a soft 50 point winger just doesn't cut it, not when we puked away a bunch of assets for one good hockey player, two we might not sign, and a piece of trash defenseman. 

[pi2000]

Three years later what we have left from the long trade chain of Miller/ Ott, Myers/ Stafford/ Armia/ Lemieux and 2015 #21 pick is Kane/ Bogosian and Lehner.

 

 

....and BUF got Ryan Miller (and Rhett Warrener) from FLA for Mike Wilson, who was acquired from VAN as part of the Peca/Mogilny trade.   Mogilny was acquired from the Rangers for Paul Cyr and a round 10 pick.   Cyr's rights were acquired from CGY for Don Edwards, and Richie Dunn.

 

You're also missing some pieces to the Miller puzzle.

 

In return for Miller and Ott, BUF acquired Halak, Stewart, Carrier, 2015 1st and 2016 3rd.

 

Halak went to WSH for Neuvirth and Klesla.  Neuvirth went to NYI for Chad Johnson and 2016 3rd.   Johnson signed with CGY as a FA and the 2016 3rd went to PIT for Bylsma.

 

Stewart went to MIN for a 2017 2nd round pick.  

 

Carrier is still on the roster, duh.

 

The 2015 1st went to WPG in the Myers/Kane deal.   WPG selected D Jack Roslovic with the 25th overall pick.   He's played 1 NHL game in his career.

 

The 2016 3rd went to FLA as part of the Kulikov/Pysyk deal.    FLA select D Linus Nassen with the 89th overall pick.   

 

So Don Edwards and Richie Dunn ultimately gave BUF Bylsma, a 2017 2nd, Carrier, parts of Kane, Bogosian, Kasdorff, and Kulikov

Edited April 18, 2017 by pi2000

[WildCard]

Right but we lost on purpose for 2 years. Losing 2 seasons for Eichel is not worth it, I'm not even sure losing 1 is at this point, and then having that extra one where we picked this guy we plan on jerking around to develop into a soft 50 point winger just doesn't cut it, not when we puked away a bunch of assets for one good hockey player, two we might not sign, and a piece of trash defenseman.

The alternative was already tried for 16 years, and is currently still being tried by the Bills. It's the definition of Insanity

[I-90 W]

....and BUF got Ryan Miller (and Rhett Warrener) from FLA for Mike Wilson, who was acquired from VAN as part of the Peca/Mogilny trade. Mogilny was acquired from the Rangers for Paul Cyr and a round 10 pick. Cyr's rights were acquired from CGY for Don Edwards, and Richie Dunn.

 

You're also missing some pieces to the Miller puzzle.

 

In return for Miller and Ott, BUF acquired Halak, Stewart, Carrier, 2015 1st and 2016 3rd.

 

Halak went to WSH for Neuvirth and Klesla. Neuvirth went to NYI for Chad Johnson and 2016 3rd. Johnson signed with CGY as a FA and the 2016 3rd went to PIT for Bylsma.

 

Stewart went to MIN for a 2017 2nd round pick.

 

Carrier is still on the roster, duh.

 

The 2015 1st went to WPG in the Myers/Kane deal. WPG selected D Jack Roslovic with the 25th overall pick. He's played 1 NHL game in his career.

 

The 2016 3rd went to FLA as part of the Kulikov/Pysyk deal. FLA select D Linus Nassen with the 89th overall pick.

 

So Don Edwards and Richie Dunn ultimately gave BUF Bylsma, a 2017 2nd, Carrier, parts of Kane, Bogosian, Kasdorff, and Kulikov

So I missed Carrier and part of Kulikov. Close enough lol.

[respk]

Samson was not worth a 54 point season. And I love Samson. 

And Eichel wasn't worth a tank season either. There was a reason GMTM was pissed when the Sabres lost the lottery for McDavid and said so.

[Randall Flagg]

The alternative was already tried for 16 years, and is currently still being tried by the Bills. It's the definition of Insanity

I don't think that moving forward from 2013 was a binary decision. There were many more options than blowing up the way we did and squandering those assets in an attempted fast retool versus bringing back Hodgson, continuing to work with Grigorenko, keeping Ruff, giving Vanek that fat extension, and being an 11th place team. We were already trending towards being pretty bad and entering a more natural rebuild - I don't think we finish this year that much worse if we draft Ehlers instead of Reinhart, Marner instead of Eichel, two of Boeser/White/Konecny/Carlo in 2015, maybe finishing a bit worse and grabbing Tkachuk last year, along with continuing with that O'Reilly trade. I dunno, it's pointless trying to come up with a bunch of alternate scenarios. We did a decent job at getting assets while finishing our tank in 2015, and will not see the playoffs until 2019 at least if one bad decision is made this week. We it up because it is inherently very very easy to up.

[nfreeman]

Jack Eichel is better than Auston Matthews. 

 

This may yet prove out, but there is zero basis for asserting it now.  Matthews had a far better season as a rookie than Jackie boy did as a sophomore.

 

 

The Leafs didn't tank.   They got lucky and won the lottery, and won the Babcock sweepstakes.... because that's where Babcock wanted to go all along, it wasn't about money or roster.    

 

The Leafs lowest point total the past 5 years was 68 points.   Meanwhile BUF put up back to back seasons of 52 and 54 points, which, naturally, will take longer to recover from.

 

Just because the Leafs got lucky and won the lottery without tanking, doesn't mean BUF's tank strategy was a failure.   

 

Completely agree that the Leafs didn't tank in anywhere near the same way the Sabres did. 

 

Completely agree that the Leafs winning the lottery doesn't mean that the Sabres' tank was a failure.  One thing has nuttin' to do with the udder.

 

But the Sabres' tank was unequivocally a failure.

 

To ignore the O'Reilly trade, the tank was still worth it in my eyes. I'd rather have Eichel and (maybe one day when DB is gone) Reinhart as our top centers than Tyler Ennis, Cy Hgsn, and Zemgus Girgensons.

Straw man.  Those weren't the only 2 alternatives.

I don't think that moving forward from 2013 was a binary decision. There were many more options than blowing up the way we did and squandering those assets in an attempted fast retool versus bringing back Hodgson, continuing to work with Grigorenko, keeping Ruff, giving Vanek that fat extension, and being an 11th place team. We were already trending towards being pretty bad and entering a more natural rebuild - I don't think we finish this year that much worse if we draft Ehlers instead of Reinhart, Marner instead of Eichel, two of Boeser/White/Konecny/Carlo in 2015, maybe finishing a bit worse and grabbing Tkachuk last year, along with continuing with that O'Reilly trade. I dunno, it's pointless trying to come up with a bunch of alternate scenarios. We did a decent job at getting assets while finishing our tank in 2015, and will not see the playoffs until 2019 at least if one bad decision is made this week. We ###### it up because it is inherently very very easy to ###### up.

 

We f'd it up because we adopted a plan that required a 1-in-5 chance to pay off -- and any plan that relies on a 1-in-5 chance to pay off is an idiotic plan.

[Randall Flagg]

This may yet prove out, but there is zero basis for asserting it now.  Matthews had a far better season as a rookie than Jackie boy did as a sophomore.

 

 

 

Completely agree that the Leafs didn't tank in anywhere near the same way the Sabres did. 

 

Completely agree that the Leafs winning the lottery doesn't mean that the Sabres' tank was a failure.  One thing has nuttin' to do with the udder.

 

But the Sabres' tank was unequivocally a failure.

 

Straw man.  Those weren't the only 2 alternatives.

 

We f'd it up because we adopted a plan that required a 1-in-5 chance to pay off -- and any plan that relies on a 1-in-5 chance to pay off is an idiotic plan.

Matthews' rookie season was better than Jack's, but Jack's sophomore season had a notably better point per game pace, and he wasn't nearly as sheltered as Matthews was, and Jack's team scored far, far fewer goals than Matthews' did. I think Jack was a better player this year even though Matthews is pretty good at picking up garbage from within 10 feet of the net and not too much else (loose puck retrievals and stick handling he's good at...passing? 29 assists, on THAT team, in 82 games?)