Who are the passengers?

[dudacek]

Strong words from Jack: who is he talking about?

(Figured this needed its own thread)

 

Per Harrington: Eichel clearly furious. Said too many guys in the room simply happy to be in the league. Part of the culture that needs change. #Sabres

 

So, who needs to go? Who is Eichel talking about?

Brian Gionta.

 

More from Jack - “I think guys want to win,” Eichel said Monday, “but there’s a difference between saying you want to win and actually wanting to win and putting the work in and dedicating your life to it.”

Guys he was not talking about:

ROR, McCabe, Ristolainen, Gorges

 

Guys he was:

Moulson, Kulikov, Deslauriers, Bogosian, Franson,

 

Curious to see where the others fall, particularly his buddies Sam and Evander, the Rochester kids, and the captain.

I agree with your first list, but from the 2nd, what more can you ask of a guy like Deslauriers? He doesn't have the skill to score 10 goals per year in this league even with 20 minutes of ice time per night, let alone 6 minutes. What about guys like Ennis or Girgensons, guys who have the talent but for some reason have fallen off the face of the Earth. Maybe Ennis gets a pass because of injuries, but what has happened to Zemgus? He's gone from "future captain" to 4th liner.

Edited April 10, 2017 by dudacek

[Jacque Richard]

95% of the team

[Eleven]

I don't think Eichel was calling out the guy who hosted him last year.  I also don't see Bogosian or Franson as "passengers."  Franson is simply of limited utility.  

[R_Dudley]

Strong words from Jack: who is he talking about?

(Figured this needed its own thread)

 

Okay Alex I take, Leadership for $100.  

There is a saying that a fish rots from the head. So since he eliminated coach and GM by calling out players I agree with D4rk and start with the current captain.

 

The only player that we know had inquiry's at the trade deadline was the big G. He could have allowed a trade that netted some picks or players for a team that went no where but we know he refused and the team subsequently went nowhere standing pat.

 

So I start there, he was a good soldier at one time but he can't be captain of my ship anymore because he put his own interest ahead of his team for what could have been a few month rental and possibly playing for a SC. Also GMTM shouldn't be allowed to say ZFG anymore after that too but that is a different thread. 

 

Second anybody that runs/hangs with Big G's group in and out of work. Anybody with a letter in that group needs it replaced because that leadership failed.

 

Last the players that looked like they coasted too often during the season or wouldn't finish a check, Moulson, Franson, Kulikov. Try hards but whiffed on a lot of checks or chances, Deslauriers, Zemgus, Grant. Tried but very uneven results and efforts seen on the ice , Bogo, Ennis,               

Edited April 10, 2017 by R_dudly

[darksabre]

I don't think Eichel was calling out the guy who hosted him last year.  I also don't see Bogosian or Franson as "passengers."  Franson is simply of limited utility.  

I do. 

[Guest]

Who are the passengers? That's easy. Who didn't give 100% every game. The whole team, even Jack. Where was he the last 3 games? I'd didn't see leadership out of him during the Fl swing.

 

We need a passanger scale. Ranging for 0 to 100, with 100 being someone who floated through the entire season. No one gets a zero. In my book only KO Risto and Lehner are in single digits. Jack, Jake, and Kane are in the low 20s. Moulson, Kulikov, Bogo are in the 80s to low 90s. Imho anyone who is just showing up for the check 60% or more of the time needs to be voted off the island.

[Eleven]

Who are the passengers? That's easy. Who didn't give 100% every game. The whole team, even Jack. Where was he the last 3 games? I'd didn't see leadership out of him during the Fl swing.

 

We need a passanger scale. Ranging for 0 to 100, with 100 being someone who floated through the entire season. No one gets a zero. In my book only KO Risto and Lehner are in single digits. Jack, Jake, and Kane are in the low 20s. Moulson, Kulikov, Bogo are in the 80s to low 90s. Imho anyone who is just showing up for the check 60% or more of the time needs to be voted off the island.

 

This is interesting; where do you put O'Reilly and Reinhart?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Iggy says ...

 

 

Me ... 

Who are the passengers? That's easy. Who didn't give 100% every game. The whole team, even Jack. Where was he the last 3 games? I'd didn't see leadership out of him during the Fl swing.

We need a passanger scale. Ranging for 0 to 100, with 100 being someone who floated through the entire season. No one gets a zero. In my book only KO Risto and Lehner are in single digits. Jack, Jake, and Kane are in the low 20s. Moulson, Kulikov, Bogo are in the 80s to low 90s. Imho anyone who is just showing up for the check 60% or more of the time needs to be voted off the island.

 

I think this is about right, although I would have Kane in the low single digits.

[sabills]

We all are. I WANT TO GET OFF MR. BONES WILD RIDE.

[JohnRobertEichel]

I do. 

 

Same. Even our GM specifically called out Moulson last year.

[darksabre]

Same. Even our GM specifically called out Moulson last year.

Yup. Good memory. Plus the little nugget about Eichel not doing as much prep when he lived with Matt. Sounds like Moulson is a bad influence to me.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't think Eichel was calling out the guy who hosted him last year.  I also don't see Bogosian or Franson as "passengers."  Franson is simply of limited utility.  

 

I dunno, Bogo strikes me as precisely the type of guy Eichel was talking about with his "Some guys who say they want to win don't actually want to do the work to do what it takes" spiel. Of course, I believe you're one of those whose opinion on Bogo's level of play is completely detached from reality, soooooooo :p

[CallawaySabres]

How can you tell if they are not putting in full effort or if they just suck?

[shoretalk]

It's frustrating looking at this team because so many of them took a ride in almost every game.  To give Jack credit, he called himself out in this conversation especially related to the last few games so its clear he is aware that he is not always at full speed and I think that the culture around him has impacted his play because its difficult to play hard when no one else cares.

 

The team still has "key" veterans who played on a team designed to tank including its captain.  When you play to lose how do you change your mindset back to trying to win every game. 

 

The very first step in changing the culture is changing the team leadership beginning with the C's and A's (Actually, starting with the coach but we are talking passengers now.).  The on ice "leadership" group were the first passengers most nights.  If the coach is retained then his first post season announcement should be that the 2017-2018 Sabres will no longer have the old players wearing the letters.  If McDavid can captain the Oilers into the playoffs while a Gionta leads a team with alleged talent to a worse record than the previous year who is the better captain?

 

The players on a team that need to "inspire" and/or kick butt are those whose sweaters have the letters on them.  This year's lie down for at least 20 minutes almost every night problem starts with those guys.  Gionta and his Assistants should have been screaming at those who slept with each shift but most nights they were either dozing or moving rather slowly on ice.

 

It's tiring listening to the GR "Instigators" defend the old vets on the team when the vets on the team are the ones who should be changing the team's culture and giving more than 100% to teach the young guys.  And, to have a coach who admits he is harder on the young guys rather than the vets who are laying down is just not acceptable when those vets are the ones whose non-play is leading to losses.  So, he cuts Jack's shifts, sits Sam on the bench, forces Jake to watch the game, reduces Kane's time but he rewards the older guys.  Even these last few games he didn't play our future young players instead choosing to keep the non-caring old slow guys in.

 

If NHL rules allowed it I'd name Lehner captain because he holds nothing back wanting to win!  We need a captain who plays both by example but also by screaming after every loss that is caused by the boys in blue and gold!

[Guest]

This is interesting; where do you put O'Reilly and Reinhart?

I'd put ROR at 25 or so. There were a couple of patches that he even admitted that he was floating around. As to Kane he is in the 20s because of the 20 games or so he played with no goals or points. Reinhardt 40. I was disappointed at his disappearing act in games this season.

Edited April 10, 2017 by yse325

[dudacek]

For the record I think Bogosian is exactly the type of guy Eichel is talking about: a nice guy who wants to win but just isn't committed or focused enough. Moulson is the epitome of that.

 

Other guys I'm not so sure. Ennis secretly would welcome a trade because he's seen too much losing a disappointment. Deslauriers relies on his personality and his willingness to fight. He hasn't bothered to get better at hockey. Kane works hard on the ice, but how hockey-focused is he elsewhere?

 

Picture Herb Brooks saying "again." Who are the first guys to drop?

Edited April 10, 2017 by dudacek

[Weave]

Take a look at the players that got sat that we didn';t expect to get sat.  I think Sam could have been accused of that at least at one point in the season.  Given his production down the stretch, I'm betting he fell back into it after the break as well.

 

I can't see Gionta being a passenger.  He's the kind of player that had to bust it to stay where he was.  He was brought in to get that mindset established with the kids.

 

I could see Bogo being among the accused.  Moulson too.  He's been singled out before.  Foligno is notoriously inconsistent with the game he plays.  Add his name here.  Georges...... his rep was effort, but maybe he's hit the wall and is coasting out to the end.  Girgensons isn't the player he was.  I'd suspect he's a passenger now. 

 

And Jack needs to be careful with the finger he's pointing.  He knows damned well he gave up down the stretch.  I think our tank duo is as guilty as some of our vets.

[LGR4GM]

How can you tell if they are not putting in full effort or if they just suck?

Sam Reinhart is a good example of this right now. Last year he was at almost every single ROR extra practice. This year he went to a few. Now Reinhart didn't suck per say but he sure as hell wasn't fine. Putting in effort is knowing you suck and finding a way to contribute. Sucking and doing everything to suck slightly less are two different things. As a video game once told me "amateurs practice until they get it right, professionals practice until they can't get it wrong"  Jack Eichel is a pro who hates losing. We need a new meme. Jack Eichel hates to lose. 

[spndnchz]

Sam Reinhart is a good example of this right now. Last year he was at almost every single ROR extra practice. This year he went to a few. Now Reinhart didn't suck per say but he sure as hell wasn't fine. Putting in effort is knowing you suck and finding a way to contribute. Sucking and doing everything to suck slightly less are two different things. As a video game once told me "amateurs practice until they get it right, professionals practice until they can't get it wrong"  Jack Eichel is a pro who hates losing. We need a new meme. Jack Eichel hates to lose.

 

Good point. Kane said the same at exit interviews. Something like.. to each his own... find what works for you... do that more.

[LGR4GM]

Good point. Kane said the same at exit interviews. Something like.. to each his own... find what works for you... do that more.

Exactly. That's why I don't mind Jack this year making some bad turnovers, he was trying to figure out what worked. Franson I thought did a good job later in the year doing what worked for him and not over extending himself. Even in Bylsma's system, which I dislike, you can find a strength and play to it.

[Jacque Richard]

For the record I think Bogosian is exactly the type of guy Eichel is talking about: a nice guy who wants to win but just isn't committed or focused enough. Moulson is the epitome of that.

Other guys I'm not so sure. Ennis secretly would welcome a trade because he's seen too much losing a disappointment. Deslauriers relies on his personality and his willingness to fight. He hasn't bothered to get better at hockey. Kane works hard on the ice, but how hockey-focused is he elsewhere?

Picture Herb Brooks saying "again." Who are the first guys to drop?

Agree here

[spndnchz]

To answer the original question: isn't it us?

[LGR4GM]

To answer the original question: isn't it us?

figured it was a music reference

Edited April 11, 2017 by LGR4GM

[pi2000]

Passengers:

 

Bogosian

McCabe

Girgensons

Foligno

Moulson

Ennis

DLo

Kulikov

Franson

Reinhart

Larsson

Rodrigues

 

You can tell by the body language after getting scored on.    The guys I listed above, just kinda look down at the ice and skate over the bench like no big deal that's OK we messed up somewhere it happens that's fine.    I want to see stick slammed on the ice, guys yelling at each other, talking it over on the bench, figuring out.    That doesn't happen with any of the above group.    They're resigned to the fact they're going to lose some games and they seem to be OK with it.    

 

Reinhart was a terrible junior team, the only team success he's ever had is the world juniors.   

You have to hate losing more than you like winning to have team success, and there's only maybe a handful of guys on this team who seem like they really hate to lose in this league. 

[qwksndmonster]

Good god that was so stupid to read.  Different people react to disappointment differently.

 

It could just as easily be said that a player who slams their stick into the boards after a goal against can't keep his head in the game and roll with the punches.

 

I should probably take a Sabrespace break if all I'm going to read are concerns about the players' character.  What a giant load of BS.