Terry Pegula is "Not My Owner"

[DHawerchuk10]

How about this:  the Bills are certainly no worse than they were and as demonstrated upthread are actually a bit better. 

 

The Sabres are worse, but they are worse because they decided to pursue the strategy that most here wanted them to pursue:  the siren's song of the tank.  The results of that decision were entirely predictable.

 

Now, are the Pegulas ultimately responsible for the tank, and, before that, for keeping Darcy on -- both of which decisions turned out poorly?  Yes, they are.  But while I disagreed with both decisions, both were defensible.  Neither was the product of foolish/self-indulgent meddling, as the fear-and-loathing-of-the-wealthy corner here would have it.

 

And next year, if they get better coaching and good health, they'll likely make the playoffs.  Frankly, they probably would've made it this year with Babcock and with no early Eichel, Kane, Okposo and ROR injuries.

I concur with your assessment.  With respect to the Sabres, I am not sure if I would have made different decisions quite frankly.  I was not fully onboard with the tank either, but as you said, it was easily defensible.  For folks so willing to draw and quarter Pegula, what decisions would you have made differently since the tank, and what decisions would you want him to make going forward to improve the team?  I keep hearing that he is too meddlesome, care to offer some recent examples?  It appears he learned from his earlier mistakes, and set out to hire qualified hockey folks.  Perhaps those hockey folks aren't as qualified as many of us thought, but were you honestly against these hirings upon announcement?  

[qwksndmonster]

Unrelated but every time I glance at this thread title my brain tries to replace "billie jean is not my lover" with it.

This is the best thing to come out of this thread.

 

(Not specifically trashing the OP, the entire board has been pretty bad for the last couple weeks)

 

(Oh god, am I the new shrader?)

[nfreeman]

This thread is so far off-base.   

 

Pegula rescued both franchises, put a lot of money into them, look at Harbor Center, etc... did so much for the community, and people here lambaste him because the teams haven't won a Championship in the couple of years he's been owner.   Gimme a break.   It takes time, both franchises are moving in the right direction IMO, and they're still in Buffalo, you have nothing to complain about.  

 

 

Correct.

 

 

My memory is not as sharp as it once was, but I don't think that Pegula 'rescued' either team.

 

He bought the Sabres from another billionaire who saw a great chance to make a nice profit (OSP, it can be argued, 'rescued' the Sabres out of the clutches of the NHL ... I do not believe that the NHL would have allowed for a Sabre move, or fold).

 

Now there was some sense that had Pegula not bought the Bills some yeah-hoo very possibly could have and moved them.  I do not believe for a second that the NFL would have approved a Bills move.

 

I think the Pegula's would be well served to hire the best football and hockey people they can find and let them run each team ... real football and real hockey people, not the make believers.

 

I agree with most of this, but I think the NFL would've approved a Bills move in a heartbeat.

 

 

I think the NFL would have approved a Bills move.

 

Beat me to it.

[Jsixspd]

How about this:  the Bills are certainly no worse than they were and as demonstrated upthread are actually a bit better. 

 

 

And next year, if they get better coaching and good health, they'll likely make the playoffs.  Frankly, they probably would've made it this year with Babcock and with no early Eichel, Kane, Okposo and ROR injuries.

The Pegulas took over mid October, 2014.   So we can't reasonably credit them with the 9-7 winning record the Bills posted that year. 

 

The first FULL season of ownership, they slid to 8-8, and then of course 7-9 last year.   The defense, which was ranked in the top 5 in fall 2014,  was one of the worst in the NFL last season.    Special teams also took a tank. 

 

It doesn't make much sense to argue that 7-9 is better than 9-7.   Looks like they're going backwards in a hurry. 

 

Now for the Sabres and injuries... O'Reilly, Eichel, and Kane have been in the lineup pretty regularly since the All Star Break.  And the team has only made 14 pts in 19 games.   They're 6-11-2 since the All Star Break.  That's a 60 pt per year tank pace.

What injuries are to blame for this latest slump?  Okposo has been gone for a number of those games... but he was in the lineup for the first 3 back to back post All Star game losses;  2 of them against the 2 worst team in the NHL - Colorado and Arizona. 

 

We shouldn't let Bylsma, et al weasel out of this with the old 'injury excuse'.  Every team is gonna have some injuries, and to some key personnel, during the October to April season.  Part of the game.  

 

Sabres have been playing like a 60 pt team since the All Star break - that's all that really matters -  and I want to see Bylsma and Murray with some ownership and accountability for this team's dismal performance this season. 

 

 

 

[Doohicksie]

(Oh god, am I the new shrader?)

 

There are worse fates.

[nfreeman]

The Pegulas took over mid October, 2014.   So we can't reasonably credit them with the 9-7 winning record the Bills posted that year. 

 

The first FULL season of ownership, they slid to 8-8, and then of course 7-9 last year.   The defense, which was ranked in the top 5 in fall 2014,  was one of the worst in the NFL last season.    Special teams also took a tank. 

 

It doesn't make much sense to argue that 7-9 is better than 9-7.   Looks like they're going backwards in a hurry. 

 

Now for the Sabres and injuries... O'Reilly, Eichel, and Kane have been in the lineup pretty regularly since the All Star Break.  And the team has only made 14 pts in 19 games.   They're 6-11-2 since the All Star Break.  That's a 60 pt per year tank pace.

What injuries are to blame for this latest slump?  Okposo has been gone for a number of those games... but he was in the lineup for the first 3 back to back post All Star game losses;  2 of them against the 2 worst team in the NHL - Colorado and Arizona. 

 

We shouldn't let Bylsma, et al weasel out of this with the old 'injury excuse'.  Every team is gonna have some injuries, and to some key personnel, during the October to April season.  Part of the game.  

 

Sabres have been playing like a 60 pt team since the All Star break - that's all that really matters -  and I want to see Bylsma and Murray with some ownership and accountability for this team's dismal performance this season. 

 

 

 

That 9-7 record was a mirage.  The Bills were 8-7 and played the Patriots in the last game of the season, when the Pats had clinched, had zero to play for and rested Brady for half the game.  There is essentially zero possibility that the Bills would've won that game had the Patriots given a poop about it.  So that was just another 8-8 season.

 

Similarly, had the Bills played TT in the (meaningless) finale vs the Jets this season, there's a pretty good likelihood that they would've won, which would've brought them to...8-8.

 

I certainly don't argue that hiring Rex was a mistake -- but it was a defensible move.  He was the biggest name on the coaching market, and getting him (after years of the Bills not even being able to get interviews with hot candidates) was a coup.

 

As for the Sabres, I said it came down to coaching and injuries -- not just injuries.  The Sabres have clearly bailed on DDB.  Was hiring him a mistake?  Yes indeed -- but again, it was defensible.  He was the 2nd-biggest name on the coaching market, and they hired him only after being spurned by the top guy. 

 

Do you not think they'd be in the thick of the playoff race under the circumstances I mentioned -- i.e. Babcock plus no injuries?

[Doohicksie]

You could say that about the Sabres, but every Sabres fan that has been following the team for more than ten years can tell you that Golisano was a "bargain basement" owner, meaning he only saw the Sabres as a business and had financial mandates on the team. Golisano hired Darcy Regier and it was his idea to start "the tank." After the 2007 offseason debacle, how do you think fans would react/respond to Golisano if Regier was still the Sabres GM and they continued to suck today?

 

In regards to the Bills and the NFL not letting them move, think again. The NFL has been wanting a team in LA for many years and they have two: Chargers and Rams. Also, the Raiders were approved for relocation and they have a very passionate fan base just like the Bills. So if the NFL owners approved for three teams to move, why wouldn't they have approved the move of the Bills to Toronto if JBJ purchased the team?

 

Darcy became the GM (1997) almost 6 years prior to Golisano buying the team (2003).  In fact, both Darcy and Lindy were hired under Knox family ownership.

 

EDIT:  Yeah, I wasn't the first one to catch that.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Doohickie

[That Aud Smell]

I agree with most of this, but I think the NFL would've approved a Bills move in a heartbeat.

 

Lord, yes.

 

There's no mystery whatsoever about what the NFL is at this point -- and maybe there never should have been one (a mystery). The NFL is a perfect, ruthless, soulless revenue-generating monster. The NFL gives not a single sh1t about anything other than growing its bottom line.

 

I'm about 40% on my way to having a full-blown hatred of the NFL, and the resulting disinterest in the game it produces for entertainment.

[TrueBlueGED]

Lord, yes.

 

There's no mystery whatsoever about what the NFL is at this point -- and maybe there never should have been one (a mystery). The NFL is a perfect, ruthless, soulless revenue-generating monster. The NFL gives not a single sh1t about anything other than growing its bottom line.

 

I'm about 40% on my way to having a full-blown hatred of the NFL, and the resulting disinterest in the game it produces for entertainment.

Pretty much. Not only do I think the NFL would have approved a move, I think they desperately wanted the highest bid to be one that gave them the chance to approve it.

[That Aud Smell]

Pretty much. Not only do I think the NFL would have approved a move, I think they desperately wanted the highest bid to be one that gave them the chance to approve it.

 

By hook or by crook, the NFL will extract from the Bills franchise what it desires.

 

In initial response, there may be talk from the franchise about how this market, with its league-lowest population and lightest corporate HQ count, can't generate what the league requires.

 

But, the NFL will effectively say, perhaps the franchise is only thinking of traditional money-drilling techniques. The kind where you find a big deep pocket, and drill straight down into it. Perhaps, the league will suggest, the franchise must think of more modern -- arguably more risky and invasive -- means of drilling for money. Some sort of money-drilling that involves going into larger, but more shallow, horizontal layers, whereby the franchise will push into these horizontal layers and loosen up thousands of smaller monetary deposits, which can then be harvested as a larger collective.

 

Something like that will happen.

 

Either that, or the NFL will find a way to persuade the franchise's owners that they need to go drill for money somewhere else -- somewhere where the drilling is easier. 

[dudacek]

Lord, yes.

 

There's no mystery whatsoever about what the NFL is at this point -- and maybe there never should have been one (a mystery). The NFL is a perfect, ruthless, soulless revenue-generating monster. The NFL gives not a single sh1t about anything other than growing its bottom line.

 

I'm about 40% on my way to having a full-blown hatred of the NFL, and the resulting disinterest in the game it produces for entertainment.

Increasingly feeling this way myself.

[Jacque Richard]

I don't know about 'ever' coming back - but clearly both teams the Pegulas have  purchased (not where Terry ends and Kim begins, so I call it joint ownership)   have declined since purchase.    Unless the Pegulas themselves take a more hands off approach, and hire better management and give that management more autonomy,  I don't see the teams ever rising above mediocrity.  The Pegulas are clearly horribly naive and inept at making operational decisions for their teams.  And it really shows.  

Folks forget the Pegulas have owned the Sabres for over 6 years now.   The last season prior to the Pegula's purchase - the Sabres were a 100+ point team.  Now they're struggling to hit 80 in a season, despite vast, unwise, and ineffective expenditures of funds.   

We saw, in early videos, shortly after purchasing the Sabres,  the Pegulas'  management 'style' - the Sabres would have these big meetings with Terry sitting there, with Regier,  Ruff Ted Black, et al, in a room, and make 'committee' decisions;  I remember Pegula stating that every decision is discussed by everyone prior to it happening.   That is unless of course Terry or Kim just go 'rogue' and make a decision unilaterally, like the bungled and botched firing of Rex Ryan by El Solo Lobo T-Peg, which helped make the Bills the laughing stock of the NFL .... again.  

 

The Pegulas are like the middle aged couple who take up a hobby together and 'tinker' - like weekend gardeners.   Only in this case, it's billion dollar sports franchises that are the hobby - and they putter and putz with them. 

A terrible management style - and the results speak for themselves.  You need one person with a vision and a goal driving, leading towards excellence.

I think the main reason quality NHL leadership has passed on Buffalo, is likely a top shelf GM or top shelf Coach wouldn't want to work under such a dysfunctional system.  With the Bills for example, could you see a quality GM applying for the job after the humiliation and embarrassment Whaley was put through during the Ryan debacle?  

A quality GM would have immediately quit and not put up with that nonsense - and that's why I don't think Whaley is a quality GM - I doubt he thinks he'd enjoy such a lofty position on another NFL team.  But that's another topic.

 

. Good post!!!

[BMWR100RT]

The Pegulas took over mid October, 2014.   So we can't reasonably credit them with the 9-7 winning record the Bills posted that year. 

 

The first FULL season of ownership, they slid to 8-8, and then of course 7-9 last year.   The defense, which was ranked in the top 5 in fall 2014,  was one of the worst in the NFL last season.    Special teams also took a tank. 

 

It doesn't make much sense to argue that 7-9 is better than 9-7.   Looks like they're going backwards in a hurry. 

 

Now for the Sabres and injuries... O'Reilly, Eichel, and Kane have been in the lineup pretty regularly since the All Star Break.  And the team has only made 14 pts in 19 games.   They're 6-11-2 since the All Star Break.  That's a 60 pt per year tank pace.

What injuries are to blame for this latest slump?  Okposo has been gone for a number of those games... but he was in the lineup for the first 3 back to back post All Star game losses;  2 of them against the 2 worst team in the NHL - Colorado and Arizona. 

 

We shouldn't let Bylsma, et al weasel out of this with the old 'injury excuse'.  Every team is gonna have some injuries, and to some key personnel, during the October to April season.  Part of the game.  

 

Sabres have been playing like a 60 pt team since the All Star break - that's all that really matters -  and I want to see Bylsma and Murray with some ownership and accountability for this team's dismal performance this season.

 

This.

[Stoner]

By hook or by crook, the NFL will extract from the Bills franchise what it desires.

 

In initial response, there may be talk from the franchise about how this market, with its league-lowest population and lightest corporate HQ count, can't generate what the league requires.

 

But, the NFL will effectively say, perhaps the franchise is only thinking of traditional money-drilling techniques. The kind where you find a big deep pocket, and drill straight down into it. Perhaps, the league will suggest, the franchise must think of more modern -- arguably more risky and invasive -- means of drilling for money. Some sort of money-drilling that involves going into larger, but more shallow, horizontal layers, whereby the franchise will push into these horizontal layers and loosen up thousands of smaller monetary deposits, which can then be harvested as a larger collective.

 

Something like that will happen.

 

Either that, or the NFL will find a way to persuade the franchise's owners that they need to go drill for money somewhere else -- somewhere where the drilling is easier. 

This is quite clever. Well done.

[That Aud Smell]

This is quite clever. Well done.

 

Thanks. It came to me in a moment of clarity.

[inkman]

Blech. Worst take ever. He's supposed to be one of us. A community treasure is in his care. The fans ultimately create the revenue in this sport. Owners owe us a lot, most of all competence. Upon further review, it's a weird retort. Who said anything about "owing"?

This entire thread's premise is based on Pegula owing us better. It csn be desired but hardly mandated unless fans show their displeasure monetarily.

[Georgia Blizzard]

Lord, yes.

 

There's no mystery whatsoever about what the NFL is at this point -- and maybe there never should have been one (a mystery). The NFL is a perfect, ruthless, soulless revenue-generating monster. The NFL gives not a single sh1t about anything other than growing its bottom line.

 

I'm about 40% on my way to having a full-blown hatred of the NFL, and the resulting disinterest in the game it produces for entertainment.

 

Agree, my interest in the NFL has declined steadily over the past several years.  Combination of several factors that goes beyond the ineptness of the Bills.

The NFL greed which manifests itself with too many commercials, watchin communities being held hostage to billion dollar stadiums (Minn) or losing teams (Oak, SD, StL)

The change in the rules that have made this league so pass happy

Concussion issues, so hard to watch guys get clocked knowing the long term health affects

Over exposure.  Thursday night broke me, that was over kill.  I can honestly say I only watched 3 non-Thanksgiving games the last 2 seasons.

[That Aud Smell]

Agree, my interest in the NFL has declined steadily over the past several years.  Combination of several factors that goes beyond the ineptness of the Bills.

The NFL greed which manifests itself with too many commercials, watchin communities being held hostage to billion dollar stadiums (Minn) or losing teams (Oak, SD, StL)

The change in the rules that have made this league so pass happy

Concussion issues, so hard to watch guys get clocked knowing the long term health affects

Over exposure.  Thursday night broke me, that was over kill.  I can honestly say I only watched 3 non-Thanksgiving games the last 2 seasons.

 

Word.

 

And I don't think you even mentioned how tedious and unwatchable the replay review process makes the games.

 

More and more (and I know it's not for everyone), I have come to enjoy watching top flight soccer (EPL, mostly) for my sports entertainment. It's funny (as in ironic) -- soccer has always had the rap in the U.S. of being "boring." You know - sometimes an "exciting" game ends in a 0-0 draw. 

 

Even setting aside that there are plenty of relatively high-scoring thrillers in soccer, something I really like about the game is that it runs on a 90-minute clock and, with a few added minutes at the end of each half, that game is progressing and then ENDING in a timely, predictable manner. And I don't have to endure relentless commercial breaks or interminable replay reviews.

[Georgia Blizzard]

Word.

 

And I don't think you even mentioned how tedious and unwatchable the replay review process makes the games.

 

More and more (and I know it's not for everyone), I have come to enjoy watching top flight soccer (EPL, mostly) for my sports entertainment. It's funny (as in ironic) -- soccer has always had the rap in the U.S. of being "boring." You know - sometimes an "exciting" game ends in a 0-0 draw. 

 

Even setting aside that there are plenty of relatively high-scoring thrillers in soccer, something I really like about the game is that it runs on a 90-minute clock and, with a few added minutes at the end of each half, that game is progressing and then ENDING in a timely, predictable manner. And I don't have to endure relentless commercial breaks or interminable replay reviews.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

My son is into soccer and I'm slowly coming to appreciate the sport.  I've been watching MLS and Premier League more and more.  Starting to understand more of the game strategy, but, I do wish the tv analysts would spend more time on that aspect, as they do with football.

 

The other part I've come to LOVE, is the fact that virtually EVERY game ends in 2 hours.  You only get commercials at halftime.  At first, I didn't like all the branding on the jerseys, but, I'll take that over being force fed non-stop commercials any day.

 

I'm not crazy about the flopping and whining, but, it's not much different than the NBA.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

yeah, he owns the team. I love how people come on a message board and rip the self made billionaire owner who saved not one but two franchises from moving or folding. The Sabres were owned by the ###### league when Pegula bought them. Bankrupt and unwanted. I love both teams and the city of Buffalo and surrounding area and I can wait, for now, for the Pegulas to build winners. Whether we choose to believe it or not, winning is important to them. It'll come, until then I'll be right here, cheering them on.

 

Well said.............. :beer:

[pi2000]

I honestly expected more from you. Not agreement or anything, but more than the standard defense that somehow gives Terry credit for "Saving our Sabres."

 

Well, yeah.    Why is it unreasonable to say that?

 

If he didn't save them, who did? 

[Stoner]

Well, yeah.    Why is it unreasonable to say that?

 

If he didn't save them, who did? 

In what sense did he save them? Were they even for sale?

[pi2000]

In what sense did he save them? Were they even for sale?

 

Yes, Golisano was only holding onto the team as a tax write-off, he had no interest whatsoever in fielding a competitive team and no interest in being a long term owner.

 

He sold the team to Pegula in 2011 for $189mil..... but there was also an unnamed bidder who submitted a much higher bid which was contingent on moving the team.   Golisano decided to sell to Pegula to keep the team in Buffalo.    Without Pegula, the Buffalo Sabres are no more.  

[Jerry Jabber]

Darcy became the GM (1997) almost 6 years prior to Golisano buying the team (2003). In fact, both Darcy and Lindy were hired under Knox family ownership.

 

EDIT: Yeah, I wasn't the first one to catch that.

Good catch! I forgot about Regis owning the team, oh well, that's what happens when you get old!

[Scottysabres]

I'm calling out anyone who questions the Pegula's. Period!!!!!

 

Yes they are going through a learning curve. Yes that pain is shared by ALL Buffalo sports fans.

But......GFY!!!!!

 

Without the Pegula's vision the Buffalo region most likely would be without an NHL or NFL team! And what I am saying is power to truth.

 

There will be ups and downs, but to question ownerships commitment to win is hogwash. Like any other human beings, they make mistakes. I won't judge their ownership based on those mistakes. Instead.......I'm greatful for there dedication and commitment to the region.

 

So I say, Thank you Terry and Kim. I know it's a tough learning curve, but please, continue on and know you have the support of the majority not only in the region, but thousands upon thousands of WNY ex-patriots as well to stay focused on the DREAM of championships!!!