Bucky tears into Pegulas — "At what point does the honeymoon end?"

[Stoner]

It is important to acknowledge how lucky the city of Buffalo was getting the pegula's to buy both teams and keep them there. They have hired what they feel to be the best people available and have spared NO EXPENSE to do so. babcock reneging on a gentleman's agreement and going to Toronto as NOT the pegula's fault...they offered the vault basically. Things would be different if Babs had come here for sure. otherwise, Pegula's have stressed they want a winner and are paying big bucks to try and fulfill that goal. Not sure exactly what else they are suppose to do...they are passionate people and have a great passion for you, the people of Buffalo  and you all should be proud of thankful of and for them.

I agree with almost everything. I've never said they were cheap or lacking passion or didn't want to win or didn't deserve credit for the investments in the teams and the arena area. Where I part ways is the idea that there's nothing else they should be doing. Look at Georgia's to-do list. That about sums it up. I don't see meddling on the list, rightly so.

F&Ck Buck(y)

 

I'm eternally grateful to Pegulas

 

They have only a few things to do:

 

1- Find the RIGHT person to run the on-the-field operations for each franchise; whether that's a fully empowered GM or a VP of Football/Hockey Operations, I don't care.  I think GMTM still might be the right guy, I know Whaley is NOT.

2- Empower them

3-write the checks

4-Enjoy watching the games

Perfect. Hope they can get it right one of these days. Reading between the lines is the idea that Terry especially should stay out of decision-making. I honestly doubt he has that in him.

[Huckleberry]

I agree with almost everything. I've never said they were cheap or lacking passion or didn't want to win or didn't deserve credit for the investments in the teams and the arena area. Where I part ways is the idea that there's nothing else they should be doing. Look at Georgia's to-do list. That about sums it up. I don't see meddling on the list, rightly so.

Perfect. Hope they can get it right one of these days. Reading between the lines is the idea that Terry especially should stay out of decision-making. I honestly doubt he has that in him.

 

I think that for the bills , that change is already happening, the new coach seems to be getting all the power, whaley might be gone soon to.

[SwampD]

I'm trying to find a single thing wrong with what he wrote.

 

Like I've said before, this article isn't for us. Bucky's writhing isn't for us. It's for people like my dad that will have the game on while doing other things and couldn't name three Sabres (he couldn't, I asked him and he named Eichel three times), but still call themselves fans and are happy when they win. They see that article while they are in the sports section and just want to check the temperature of "the Sabres".

 

I don't think Bucky got it wrong.

[That Aud Smell]

As many as 6 upgrades away from being a legit playoff team? 

 

Bucky can't help but trip over his own ... feet.

 

Three significant upgrades (maybe as few as two) will make this team a playoff contender. Then, as always (someone here said it - dudacek?), they will need some surprises to hit. Remember Pominville in 2006? He'd essentially been waived earlier in the season.

 

I don't think he's calling for a boycott. He's probably like me, scratching my head over the lack of heat the owners take (although the heat is being turned up a bit). I think Bucky would he happy to see the fans having a more levelheaded conversation about ownership, while leaving 716 and alumni night out of it.

 

Is that what he's advocating? I'm really not so sure.

 

I think he's essentially selling misery. And I can't really blame him for it -- that stuff sells in the world of sports.  

[Stoner]

I'm trying to find a single thing wrong with what he wrote.

 

Like I've said before, this article isn't for us. Bucky's writhing isn't for us. It's for people like my dad that will have the game on while doing other things and couldn't name three Sabres (he couldn't, I asked him and he named Eichel three times), but still call themselves fans and are happy when they win. They see that article while they are in the sports section and just want to check the temperature of "the Sabres".

 

I don't think Bucky got it wrong.

I think you nailed it.

[SwampD]

As many as 6 upgrades away from being a legit playoff team? 

 

Bucky can't help but trip over his own ... feet.

 

Three significant upgrades (maybe as few as two) will make this team a playoff contender. Then, as always (someone here said it - dudacek?), they will need some surprises to hit. Remember Pominville in 2006? He'd essentially been waived earlier in the season.

 

 

 

Is that what he's advocating? I'm really not so sure.

 

I think he's essentially selling misery. And I can't really blame him for it -- that stuff sells in the world of sports.

 

To be fair, he did say, "four or five, maybe six..."

[Jerry Jabber]

Problem with the Bills is that they barely draft QB's and spend way too many draft picks on RB's and DB's. In the 20 years since Kelly retired, the Bills drafted five QB's: Cardale Jones, EJ Manuel, Levi Brown, Trent Edwards and JP Losman. With playing against an elite QB in the division [brady], you need to have a very good/elite QB to compete against him. Back in the 80's and 90's, the AFC East had Marino and Kelly as the top two QB's. Since Brady has been the starter, he's had no real competition in the division against him.

 

IMO, Sabres are close. They just need to bolster their defense and they'll be fine.

 

In regards to Bucky, both him and Sullivan are two terrible hacks and should have been fired a long time ago.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm trying to find a single thing wrong with what he wrote.

 

Like I've said before, this article isn't for us. Bucky's writhing isn't for us. It's for people like my dad that will have the game on while doing other things and couldn't name three Sabres (he couldn't, I asked him and he named Eichel three times), but still call themselves fans and are happy when they win. They see that article while they are in the sports section and just want to check the temperature of "the Sabres".

 

I don't think Bucky got it wrong.

 

I think the entire promise of the article is inaccurate. I don't think many fans are walking around still saying "I'm just glad the teams are here"...that sentiment is long gone, IMO.

[SwampD]

I think the entire promise of the article is inaccurate. I don't think many fans are walking around still saying "I'm just glad the teams are here"...that sentiment is long gone, IMO.

Bull.

 

Look upthread about ten posts. If that very sentiment isn't still around, then why is it still being used as a reason for us to be grateful to them?

Edited March 27, 2017 by SwampD

[TrueBlueGED]

Bull.

 

Look upthread about ten posts. If that very sentiment isn't still around, then why is it still being used as a reason for us to be grateful to them?

 

Of course it still exists. Every sentiment is going to exist. Why is that one being picked to represent the fan base rather than, say, PA's? There's no evidence one is more widespread than the other. Bucky is making a gargantuan logical leap for the purpose of writing an article. Whoop de freakin do.

[SabresBaltimore]

What exactly does being accountable mean here? Publicly accepting blame for failing to reach the playoffs? That will placate people for a day. Fire everyone and start over? Put Bucky and Sully in charge of the Bills and Sabres?

 

I guess it's maybe it's the wrong choice of words, because you can't really hold an owner accountable apart from possibly just stop buying tickets/merchandise and stop watching the games/following the team. If enough people did that, it would effect the owners, but it might also cost Buffalo the team if the owner gets fed up and hemorrhaging money.

 

Of course if both teams were perennial playoff teams that would fix itself, so maybe that's the right approach.

 

I go to about 2 or 3 games every year, which I think is pretty good/high considering I live out of state. I've kept going despite how bad they've been. My buddy I go with is considering getting rid of his season tickets next year though.

 

Really what I meant by that though was I'd like to see the Pegulas being more pro-active than they have been about changing up the management of the teams. They shouldn't be doing it to placate anyone. They should be doing it because as fans themselves they should be more frustrated with the poor results than the fans (though probably not more frustrated than Bucky or Sully)

 

I'm honestly more frustrated with the Bills than the Sabres at this point, but much of that frustration isnt the Pegula's fault. To me I drew the line this year when they didn't fire Whaley. I think they should have fired him when they bought the team.

 

I'll give GMTM 1 or 2 more years. The team isn't as good as I'd have liked it to be at this point, but I do still think it's moving in the right direction despite the standings this year.

[SwampD]

Of course it still exists. Every sentiment is going to exist. Why is that one being picked to represent the fan base rather than, say, PA's? There's no evidence one is more widespread than the other. Bucky is making a gargantuan logical leap for the purpose of writing an article. Whoop de freakin do.

I just flat out disagree,... and I didn't meet you person this weekend so I can still be a dick about it. :lol:

 

I think that sentiment is way more prevalent than you might think.

[sodbuster]

BECOMING perennial losers? With the exception of two short streches, our football franchise has always been a doormat. The Sabres have had their moments, but I see one Presidents Trophy banner hangning in the barn, and not much else. If anything, they've maintained the status quo.

[Stoner]

Of course it still exists. Every sentiment is going to exist. Why is that one being picked to represent the fan base rather than, say, PA's? There's no evidence one is more widespread than the other. Bucky is making a gargantuan logical leap for the purpose of writing an article. Whoop de freakin do.

Ha! I've been tarred and feathered on this board for my takes on Pegula. A little more support of late, but for a long time, I was a lone wolf baying at the moon. Granted, I did start a little early. Was it maybe the afternoon of the presser? (Loved the first part of his speech, though.)

[TrueBlueGED]

Ha! I've been tarred and feathered on this board for my takes on Pegula. A little more support of late, but for a long time, I was a lone wolf baying at the moon. Granted, I did start a little early. Was it maybe the afternoon of the presser? (Loved the first part of his speech, though.)

 

Disagreeing with your takes on the Pegulas does not inherently support the notion that the fan base is, writ large, still all twinkly-eyed on cloud nine. 

I just flat out disagree,... and I didn't meet you person this weekend so I can still be a dick about it. :lol:

 

I think that sentiment is way more prevalent than you might think.

 

Pffffft. I plan on being a bigger dick to those I met! :p

[Doohicksie]

their roles in both teams becoming perennial losers?

 

The Bills and Sabres *are* perennial losers.  Except for a few brief periods in their history of being highly competitive, they're just not considered legit championship contenders.  The only times either team won their final playoff game of the season were the AFL championship of '64 and '65, and the AFL was then considered the second-best football league.

 

The rest of the time, Buffalo sports teams have been also-rans and runners up.  I want a winning team, but win or lose, the Bills and Sabres will always be my #1 team in their respective sports.  I'm a little disappointed that we're not rolling around in Stanley Cup fever, but is there another prospective owner out there that (a) will keep the teams in Buffalo, and (b) can do any better than the Pegulas have?  I would say the answer is no.

 

And given the choice of having a lousy team in Buffalo, or a new owner that takes the team to a championship but oh by the way moves the team to another city, I'll take my Buffalo losers any day of the week.

 

The teams have both been on a learning curve, and that goes all the way up to the top.  I look at various pivotal moves the teams have made, and while I can point out their flaws now, it would be hard for me to point to them when they were made and say the Pegulas had a better option.  Some of it is the luck of the draw, some of it is people not performing at a level they might have been capable of, some of it is stuff beyond an owner's control.

 

But I can't look at what the Pegulas have done with the Bills and Sabres and declare that anyone else could have done any better.

[Radar]

I just flat out disagree,... and I didn't meet you person this weekend so I can still be a dick about it. :lol:

I think that sentiment is way more prevalent than you might think.

I hope you aren't judging sentiments based on sports forums. They tend to attract negative opinions. Frankly I don't think anyone has anything but speculation in this area.

[jsb]

Pffffft. I plan on being a bigger dick to those I met! :P

Are you alluding to D4RKSABRE??? He's been getting an awful bad rap this weekend.

[SabresBaltimore]

And given the choice of having a lousy team in Buffalo, or a new owner that takes the team to a championship but oh by the way moves the team to another city, I'll take my Buffalo losers any day of the week.

 

I agree.

[Radar]

The Bills and Sabres *are* perennial losers.  Except for a few brief periods in their history of being highly competitive, they're just not considered legit championship contenders.  The only times either team won their final playoff game of the season were the AFL championship of '64 and '65, and the AFL was then considered the second-best football league.

 

The rest of the time, Buffalo sports teams have been also-rans and runners up.  I want a winning team, but win or lose, the Bills and Sabres will always be my #1 team in their respective sports.  I'm a little disappointed that we're not rolling around in Stanley Cup fever, but is there another prospective owner out there that (a) will keep the teams in Buffalo, and (b) can do any better than the Pegulas have?  I would say the answer is no.

 

And given the choice of having a lousy team in Buffalo, or a new owner that takes the team to a championship but oh by the way moves the team to another city, I'll take my Buffalo losers any day of the week.

 

The teams have both been on a learning curve, and that goes all the way up to the top.  I look at various pivotal moves the teams have made, and while I can point out their flaws now, it would be hard for me to point to them when they were made and say the Pegulas had a better option.  Some of it is the luck of the draw, some of it is people not performing at a level they might have been capable of, some of it is stuff beyond an owner's control.

 

But I can't look at what the Pegulas have done with the Bills and Sabres and declare that anyone else could have done any better.

This.

[SwampD]

I hope you aren't judging sentiments based on sports forums. They tend to attract negative opinions. Frankly I don't think anyone has anything but speculation in this area.

I wasn't. That's why I said Bucky's writing isn't for us. I don't think they are as much negative as they are more informed.

 

Ha! I've been tarred and feathered on this board for my takes on Pegula. A little more support of late, but for a long time, I was a lone wolf baying at the moon. Granted, I did start a little early. Was it maybe the afternoon of the presser? (Loved the first part of his speech, though.)

I find it kinda funny that "There's no evidence one is more widespread than the other", and yet Bucky is wrong because, well,... Bucky.

[TrueBlueGED]

I wasn't. That's why I said Bucky's writing isn't for us. I don't think they are as much negative as they are more informed.

 

I find it kinda funny that "There's no evidence one is more widespread than the other", and yet Bucky is wrong because, well,... Bucky.

 

The burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. Bucky has no proof. We don't know he's wrong, but that doesn't make the default be that he's right. I've seen and heard a ton of "wake me when they're good" apathy, the secondary ticket market is still a mess, the arena is still a tomb, people still want coaches/GM/s/presidents fired as if ownership never changed.

 

I dunno what your honeymoon looked like...but hopefully not like that :p

[SwampD]

The burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. Bucky has no proof. We don't know he's wrong, but that doesn't make the default be that he's right. I've seen and heard a ton of "wake me when they're good" apathy, the secondary ticket market is still a mess, the arena is still a tomb, people still want coaches/GM/s/presidents fired as if ownership never changed.

 

I dunno what your honeymoon looked like...but hopefully not like that :P

You really don't ever hear that someone is grateful to the Pegulas for the teams still being here? You really don't ever here that we should just shut up and be grateful that we still have a team here regardless of how bad they are? (psst, we heard it in this very thread)

 

I hear it all the time. I don't need Bucky to show me proof that it exists. I know it exists.

 

His article is asking us how much longer are those that aren't on message boards still going to have that sentiment,… how much longer are those people going to value throwing their kids on an icebike downtown over rooting for a winning team.

 

It's a valid question.

[qwksndmonster]

It really doesn't matter, because Bylsma will be gone and the team will easily make the playoffs next season.

[That Aud Smell]

I think the entire premise of the article is inaccurate. I don't think many fans are walking around still saying "I'm just glad the teams are here"...that sentiment is long gone, IMO.

Bucky is making a gargantuan logical leap for the purpose of writing an article. Whoop de freakin do.

 

This gets closer to what I'm trying to puzzle - I think.

 

What does Bucky want?

 

Or, at least, what is the logical (and salutary) conclusion of that article's thesis?

 

That people should more frequently mutter critical things about Pegula over the water cooler? Or while sitting at the bar next to Rex (or whatever Sullivan's alter ego is)? Would Bucky be satisfied if more people were throwing shade on Pegula when posting on message boards?

 

I really mean it: What's the end game to the honeymoon being over? That people stop being thankful to the Pegulas? That people stop being ... satisfied (?) with mediocre teams and results? (As if that's even a thing?)

 

I'm not trying to be cute (impossible) or obtuse (very possible). I just don't understand what the point of all that is.

 

Maybe it's as simple as the idea that, if public opinion were to turn on the Pegulas, they would change their approach to ownership. 

 

Maybe that's all it is. And maybe that would happen. I think it would NOT happen. I think how or what we think of the Pegulas, as individuals or a group, has jack squat to do with what they do, or don't do, as billionaire owners of our beloved pro sports franchises.

 

So, in the meantime, I'm not going to serve myself up a heaping helping of misery from the sports fan buffet.