qwksndmonster Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 http://www.jackalshockey.com/news-1/elmira-jackals-to-cease-operations :( :( :( Was really hoping TP would buy the team. Where's the hero of the rust belt now? Quote
darksabre Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 Dang I wonder if this is part of Terry's bargaining play with the Amerks over Blue Cross. Let Elmira cease and move the Amerks to Elmira? Then move the Jackals to...the Harbor Center? Quote
PromoTheRobot Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) The Alaska Aces bite the dust too. http://thesinbin.net/breaking-alaska-aces-to-cease-operations-at-seasons-end/ But Worcester Mass joins the E. http://www.echl.com/reality-starting-to-set-in-for-railers Edited March 10, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Quote
Taro T Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 http://www.jackalshockey.com/news-1/elmira-jackals-to-cease-operations :( :( :( Was really hoping TP would buy the team. Where's the hero of the rust belt now? The Jackals are moving to Florida! It must be true. Dickie Dunn wrote it! Sorry qwk. Hopefully this is just part of Sabres negotiations w/ Ra-cha-cha but it's not likely. :( Quote
Cereal Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 The Alaska Aces bite the dust too. http://thesinbin.net/breaking-alaska-aces-to-cease-operations-at-seasons-end/ It is interesting to see a breakdown of (at least a couple of) the team's expenses and incomes in that article (sponsorship money, ticket sales, travel costs). I always wondered how some of these minor league hockey (or baseball) teams an possibly stay in business. I wonder if there are team-by-team or league-by-league comparisons listed somewhere? Quote
mjd1001 Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 It is interesting to see a breakdown of (at least a couple of) the team's expenses and incomes in that article (sponsorship money, ticket sales, travel costs). I always wondered how some of these minor league hockey (or baseball) teams an possibly stay in business. I wonder if there are team-by-team or league-by-league comparisons listed somewhere? I too wonder how they stay in business. I looked up the Jackals attendance...from 2007 - about 2012, they were averaging close to 3500 people per game. From 2012-2016, that dropped to about 2500-2600 per game, and this year they are down to about 2200 per game. It isn't just the attendance, as the tickets sold drops and revenue from that goes down...so does concession and advertising revenue. Can that cover the cost of the Arena (workers, insurance, maintenance, ice prep and maintenance, etc.) It doesn't seem like it. Of couse, the NHL could subsidize these operations as part of the cost of needing a minor league...but it would seem they would do that for the AHL teams, a lower level minor league team might not be needed as much. Remember, it wasn't too long ago (maybe 10 years or so?) that the Sabres didn't even have a full AHL team..but shared the Amerks roster with Florida. Quote
Taro T Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 I too wonder how they stay in business. I looked up the Jackals attendance...from 2007 - about 2012, they were averaging close to 3500 people per game. From 2012-2016, that dropped to about 2500-2600 per game, and this year they are down to about 2200 per game. It isn't just the attendance, as the tickets sold drops and revenue from that goes down...so does concession and advertising revenue. Can that cover the cost of the Arena (workers, insurance, maintenance, ice prep and maintenance, etc.) It doesn't seem like it. Of couse, the NHL could subsidize these operations as part of the cost of needing a minor league...but it would seem they would do that for the AHL teams, a lower level minor league team might not be needed as much. Remember, it wasn't too long ago (maybe 10 years or so?) that the Sabres didn't even have a full AHL team..but shared the Amerks roster with Florida. The sharing of an AHL team was NOT the Sabres choice. It was 100% on Donner the Hutt. He was undercapitalized so rather than provide the AHL players he was supposed to provide, he hooked up w/ the Cats to provide them. That f### up combined w/ doubling down on it & switching to the Cats as the sole parent club killed attendance for the Amerks. It didn't recover when they rejoined Buffalo & annually lost in the 1st round to the Marlies and it won't w/ the hot garbage that has been provided since the Sabres tanked. It's going to take a long time to get attendance back to what it was pre-FLA, even if they have Calder contending teams. Quote
Weave Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 The sharing of an AHL team was NOT the Sabres choice. It was 100% on Donner the Hutt. He was undercapitalized so rather than provide the AHL players he was supposed to provide, he hooked up w/ the Cats to provide them. That f### up combined w/ doubling down on it & switching to the Cats as the sole parent club killed attendance for the Amerks. It didn't recover when they rejoined Buffalo & annually lost in the 1st round to the Marlies and it won't w/ the hot garbage that has been provided since the Sabres tanked. It's going to take a long time to get attendance back to what it was pre-FLA, even if they have Calder contending teams. Especially with nearly no local newspaper coverage. Quote
pastajoe Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 Too bad, they have a nice little arena right in the middle of town with a second ice sheet for youth hockey. I hoped the Sabres would give them more players, but only a few are Sabres. They've been so bad that people stopped going. Along with Worchester, Jacksonville Fla. is getting the idle Evansville team next season. Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 How big is the building in Elmira? Could the Amerks go there if BlueCross is renovated properly? Should PSE take the ECHL team and put it in Harborside? Quote
Eleven Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) How big is the building in Elmira? Could the Amerks go there if BlueCross is renovated properly? Should PSE take the ECHL team and put it in Harborside? It seats 3700 so maybe. (The Amerks sold 4700 tickets last night and who knows how many showed up?) As for the ECHL in Buffalo--why? We already have two pro teams and a college team, and another college team 20 miles away. Edited March 11, 2017 by Eleven Quote
Scottysabres Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 To Terry Pegula: Buy the property in Niagara Falls owned by Millstein. Knock down the Nabisco silos, erect a 20' wall around the waste treatment plant on Buffalo Avenue and build a world class 7500 seat arena with convention center and Hotel. Cost should be around 550 million. Get it done Terry! Quote
qwksndmonster Posted March 11, 2017 Author Report Posted March 11, 2017 To Terry Pegs: buy the jackals and the first arena and put me in charge. Quote
Eleven Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 To Terry Pegs: buy the jackals and the first arena and put me in charge. Why not? (The arena already is sold tho.) Quote
pastajoe Posted March 12, 2017 Report Posted March 12, 2017 The International Developmental Hockey League, a league for senior players expected to start its inaugural season in October, has an Elmira team listed on its website, and commissioner Andrew Richards said in a Friday interview the arena's ownership team has expressed interest in bringing the league to First Arena. However, an IDHL team would likely play at the arena's secondary rink, as the league isn't gate-driven, Richards said. The IDHL does have an affiliation with the Federal Hockey League, where Richards serves as vice commissioner. He said the seven-team FHL would be interested in possibly putting a team in Elmira if the opportunity presented itself, and league officials had approached the arena's past owners about opportunities four years ago. There is a FHL team in Watertown, NY. Quote
TheAud Posted March 12, 2017 Report Posted March 12, 2017 Two underlying issues with Elmira team: 1) The ice plant needs to be replaced and it's a big ticket item (maybe $800k?). Chemung County was willing to go 50/50 with the City of Elmira but the city has no money whatsoever and the council unanimously voted it down. The result is the arena itself isn't necessarily viable for an on-going professional hockey operation until this gets done, despite the overall arena itself being quite nice for ECHL. 2) The team has had trouble making ends meet for years. I am not sure if it's the current owner or the prior one, but he was a local guy who had made a fair amount of money in business and as a sort of charitable thing he basically fronted the operation, made major capital investment in the arena (beautiful indoor and outdoor scoreboard/signage) and created a community board or some such thing to try to figure out how to make it sustainable long term. I know a guy who was on the board and these were smart, dedicated local people but the reality is the Elmira area is too economically depressed to support the team. If the arena were in Horseheads or Big Flats maybe there would be a chance but it's not like Elmira is that far from there. Quote
mjd1001 Posted March 12, 2017 Report Posted March 12, 2017 If the arena were in Horseheads or Big Flats maybe there would be a chance but it's not like Elmira is that far from there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Horseheads and Big Flats like 5-10 miles from Elmira...like 10 minutes on the highway? I'm asking this seriously, why wouldn't the entire area (within 20 miles of Elmira) support that team...just because its in Elmira? Quote
qwksndmonster Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Yeah, the arena being in Big Flats or Horseheads would make no difference. Edited March 12, 2017 by qwksndmonster Quote
TheAud Posted March 12, 2017 Report Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Horseheads and Big Flats like 5-10 miles from Elmira...like 10 minutes on the highway? I'm asking this seriously, why wouldn't the entire area (within 20 miles of Elmira) support that team...just because its in Elmira? Yeah, the arena being in Big Flats or Horseheads would make no difference. I'm not disagreeing, but the people with money to buy season tickets and so forth do not live in Elmira. They live in HH or Corning. So the extra 10-15 minutes drive each way during crappy winter nights makes a difference. This isn't like the NHL where people will drive hours to go see a game. I love hockey and live in Corning but the 30 minute drive each way is enough of a deterrent to keep me from going to weekday games. I mean, it's the ECHL. And downtown Elmira isn't a 'destination' to say the least. But in the big picture, no, it probably doesn't matter. I was just thinking of reasons why the team isn't as successful as it seems like it might otherwise be. Edited March 12, 2017 by Sakman Quote
qwksndmonster Posted April 8, 2017 Author Report Posted April 8, 2017 Jackals got destroyed last night in their penultimate game. 7-1. Jackals kept starting fights and embarassing themselves when the game was still in reach (3-1). It was sad. Final game tonight. I feel a duty to attend. Quote
pastajoe Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 Elmira finished their existence by losing at home 5-0. A sad ending to a sad season. I really thought the Sabres were going to help boost their roster this season. Two.other ECHL games Sat. ended with 10-0 scores. That has to be a first. Quote
PromoTheRobot Posted April 9, 2017 Report Posted April 9, 2017 I got to see the Jackels in Manchester last weekend. At least they led 1-0 briefly before getting run over. Quote
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