Players not listening to Dan?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm going to re-read this thread and take a shot everytime I read 'system' or 'systems.'  Wish me luck :beer:

 

You will be loaded by half way down page #1 ... best wishes to your success ...  :beer:

[Jacque Richard]

I'm sure jack likes losing after coming from a successful program in college.

[woods-racer]

If coaching has nothing to do with it, why these riddles?

 

#1 power play in the league, because we have the best players in the league?

 

#29 penalty kill in the league, because we have the worse players in the league?

 

#19 in 5 on 5 scoring.  (  http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?db=201617&sit=5v5&disp=1&sortdir=DESC&sort=GFPCT ) 

 

Multiple teams worse than us in 5 on 5 scoring (GF%) have swept us this season, how? Could it be we got out coached?

 

Eichel played his mind out to beat Boston and came unglued when he lost. Yet Boston is worse than us at 5 on 5 hockey. How did we get swept?

[Randall Flagg]

If coaching has nothing to do with it, why these riddles?

 

#1 power play in the league, because we have the best players in the league?

 

#29 penalty kill in the league, because we have the worse players in the league?

 

#19 in 5 on 5 scoring.  (  http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?db=201617&sit=5v5&disp=1&sortdir=DESC&sort=GFPCT )

 

Multiple teams worse than us in 5 on 5 scoring (GF%) have swept us this season, how? Could it be we got out coached?

 

Eichel played his mind out to beat Boston and came unglued when he lost. Yet Boston is worse than us at 5 on 5 hockey. How did we get swept?

Boston's not worse than us at 5v5 hockey - they actually possess the puck more than any team in the league. They can't score because of no depth/talent outside of 4 guys.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Roster wise? The Leafs, Kings, Bruins...there are plenty of teams with worse rosters than ours who's coaches have put them in a position to win

The Bruins don't have a coach. All three have better rosters.

The Kings have 3 D that are better anyone we have other then Risto and Muzzin and Doughty are arguably better the he is. They also have a mature and talented forward group that knows how to win. Carter and Kopitar are also better then what we have.

The Bruins feature a vezina type goalie (Rask) and plus Marchand and Bergeron who again better then what we have. They are also deeper on the blueline and like LA have a mature experienced roster that knows how to win.

Last the Leafs, this is closer, but they young guys are also better then ours. They feature Matthews, Marner and Nylander to just our Jack and Sam. JVR is just as good a Okposo and with Bozak and Kadri they are deeper down the middle. They are also deeper at forward overall. With 4 40 pts scorers and 9 guys over 20 pts to our 7 guys over 20 pts and Zero 40 pt players. They have also managed to stay healthy on D and Andersen is just as good if not better then Lehner.

 

All three are also barely in a playoff position and could easily miss the playoffs. Good try!

 

As to our roster we have 6 players maybe 7 of a competitive team.

We have - 2 potential stars, Jack and Sam in only their 2nd NHL seasons at 20 & 21 years old.

We have - 2 maybe 3 other 2nd line forwards in ROR, Okposo and Kane when he is on his game.

We have 2 young D (McCabe and Risto) only 1 is a top pairing guy.

 

That's it.

Edited February 13, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[MODO Hockey]

Well,

 

 

We will see against Ottawa what this rage gave the team.

I dont appreciate players talking ###### about the team officially, but when it comes to a point when its actually no other way i agree cause 

it might aswell bring the team together, if Lehner is right its unacceptable that some players aint giving ###### about the Dans plan.

 

You make millions, and you dont do as your told, thats fuwkin sad.

Edited February 13, 2017 by MODO Hockey

[Scottysabres]

Ok, so barring any more interviews, statements or leaks from players today, we appear ready to make summaries and closing arguments for docket number 02132017AD (The System).

 

Who here represents the plaintiffs, (players)

Who here represents the defendant, (Coach Dan Bylsma)

 

We await your responses.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'll give a simple analogy. Marv Levy and his system sucked in KC where he had mediocre talent but he then came to Buffalo, was given a great roster to coach and now he is in the HOF.

 

I don't think DD is any different. DD is a good coach. However, until we get a real solid D group, stay healthy and improve our bottom 6 forwards this team is going to be mediocre at best regardless if Bowman, Lindy Ruff, DD, Julien, Babcock or Big Bird is the coach. The only person responsible for this mess is GMTM.

Edited February 13, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

I have question for you hockey system experts . . .

 

It seems, when Sabres trail (3rd period comebacks) or they are "on" (Toronto 1st period), they are playing a pressing, uptempo, high speed style -- is that DB's system played well or are they abandoning the system and playing outside it ?

I don't pretend to be a systems expert, but that was my take on the Toronto game for sure.

 

What needs to be said though was how Toronto was not countering the system. To quote their own coach, they didn't respond.

What Flagg in particular has been consistently pointing out is that our system seems pretty easy to counter, particular by teams with mobile defenders and strong puck support.

 

Bylsma and his supporters would say the system will work if the players stick with it.

His critics are saying the evidence does not support that.

Edited February 13, 2017 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

Bylsma and his supporters would say the system will work if the players stick with it.

His critics are saying the evidence does not support that.

And I'm saying there isn't enough talent on this roster, especially on D to make his or any other system work consistently.

[darksabre]

I'll give a simple analogy. Marv Levy and his system sucked in KC where he had mediocre talent but he then came to Buffalo, was given a great roster to coach and now he is in the HOF.

 

I don't think DD is any different. Until we get a real solid D group and improve our bottom 6 forwards this team is going to be mediocre at best regardless if Lindy Ruff, DD, Julien, Babcock or Big Bird is the coach. The only person responsible for this mess is GMTM.

You need Byslma to have a more talented roster? The dude got CHASED out of Pittsburgh for having no idea what to do with Crosby and Malkin after he won a Cup with Michel Therrien's team in '09. 

 

 

[WildCard]

I'll give a simple analogy. Marv Levy and his system sucked in KC where he had mediocre talent but he then came to Buffalo, was given a great roster to coach and now he is in the HOF.

 

I don't think DD is any different. DD is a good coach. However, until we get a real solid D group, stay healthy and improve our bottom 6 forwards this team is going to be mediocre at best regardless if Bowman, Lindy Ruff, DD, Julien, Babcock or Big Bird is the coach. The only person responsible for this mess is GMTM.

I'll respond to your other post later. But as for this one, almost positive Levy didn't have the K-Gun / hurry up in KC, and that he wasn't even the one that came up with it. Also, dude got outcoached in his Super Bowls 

 

I agree, Murray is responsible for this mess. Should've never hired Byslma to win a press conference 

You need Byslma to have a more talented roster? The dude got CHASED out of Pittsburgh for having no idea what to do with Crosby and Malkin after he won a Cup with Michel Therrien's team in '09. 

 

 

Very good point

[drnkirishone]

DD is a one trick coach. Good coaches change the systems used to suit the roster they have. Dan is either unable or unwilling to do so.

[Randall Flagg]

And I'm saying there isn't enough talent on this roster, especially on D to make his or any other system work consistently.

But teams with worse rosters and less talent are higher in the standings and have better even strength possession numbers. This is not the third-least-talented team in the league. It has seven players that scored 20 last year or are near a 20 goal pace this year. Possession correlates with winning stronger than any other measure. Low percentage stretch plays, lack of puck support, and no inclination towards adjusting these when teams figure them out do not correlate with possession, or with winning. 

 

None of us think this team is talented enough to compete for the division. We just expect better than 28th place in the standings and possession rankings when the only teams below them are trending towards tank-Sabres numbers.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[Mustache of God]

I simply don't like DDB as a person. He's so boring to listen to in any interviews and it seems like it's always an excuse with him. "This team is so good at this so we have to limit there chances" , "this team does this so we can't do this". He comes off as a loser and I hate it. Recently when we lost to Tampa he was saying something about how you can't get pucks deep on them, Bishop controls the puck or something....A. Tampa is one of the worst teams in the league, I don't buy that at all, and B. if you know that, stop dumping it in and change your system! (sorry derrico).

 

DDB is lifeless, I want a coach who shows a modicum of emotion. Bylsma is an excuse machine and I think that seeps into the players mentality.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'll give a simple analogy. Marv Levy and his system sucked in KC where he had mediocre talent but he then came to Buffalo, was given a great roster to coach and now he is in the HOF.

 

I don't think DD is any different. DD is a good coach. However, until we get a real solid D group, stay healthy and improve our bottom 6 forwards this team is going to be mediocre at best regardless if Bowman, Lindy Ruff, DD, Julien, Babcock or Big Bird is the coach. The only person responsible for this mess is GMTM.

 

I am incredibly sick of people trying to turn this into an either-or issue. Murray could have assembled a flawed/incomplete roster AND Bylsma can be under, or inappropriately, utilizing what he has been given. Both of these things can be true. Not a single person on this board has asserted they'd be a Cup contender and 110 point team with a different coach. 

[Scottysabres]

I simply don't like DDB as a person. He's so boring to listen to in any interviews and it seems like it's always an excuse with him. "This team is so good at this so we have to limit there chances" , "this team does this so we can't do this". He comes off as a loser and I hate it. Recently when we lost to Tampa he was saying something about how you can't get pucks deep on them, Bishop controls the puck or something....A. Tampa is one of the worst teams in the league, I don't buy that at all, and B. if you know that, stop dumping it in and change your system! (sorry derrico).

 

 

DDB is lifeless, I want a coach who shows a modicum of emotion. Bylsma is an excuse machine and I think that seeps into the players mentality.

Lindy Ruff, Lindy Ruff to the white courtesy phone.....

[Jacque Richard]

No ruff please

[darksabre]

I simply don't like DDB as a person. He's so boring to listen to in any interviews and it seems like it's always an excuse with him. "This team is so good at this so we have to limit there chances" , "this team does this so we can't do this". He comes off as a loser and I hate it. Recently when we lost to Tampa he was saying something about how you can't get pucks deep on them, Bishop controls the puck or something....A. Tampa is one of the worst teams in the league, I don't buy that at all, and B. if you know that, stop dumping it in and change your system! (sorry derrico).

 

DDB is lifeless, I want a coach who shows a modicum of emotion. Bylsma is an excuse machine and I think that seeps into the players mentality.

I've mentioned this complaint in other threads and I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed with it. His incessant excuse-making for why the other team is better drives me bananas. Stop building the opponents up. It's one thing to take them seriously, it's another thing to gobble their knobs. 

[Radar]

I simply don't like DDB as a person. He's so boring to listen to in any interviews and it seems like it's always an excuse with him. "This team is so good at this so we have to limit there chances" , "this team does this so we can't do this". He comes off as a loser and I hate it. Recently when we lost to Tampa he was saying something about how you can't get pucks deep on them, Bishop controls the puck or something....A. Tampa is one of the worst teams in the league, I don't buy that at all, and B. if you know that, stop dumping it in and change your system! (sorry derrico).

 

 

DDB is lifeless, I want a coach who shows a modicum of emotion. Bylsma is an excuse machine and I think that seeps into the players mentality.

You mean you don't like him as a coach, I assume. Not liking someone as a person is a different thing.

[dudacek]

And I'm saying there isn't enough talent on this roster, especially on D to make his or any other system work consistently.[/ quote]

 

The track record of the players say otherwise.

 

Ryan O'Reilly plays for the Canadian national team.

Ristolainen is among the best under-25 defencemen in the world.

Okposo is one of the highest-scoring wingers in the NHL over the past four years.

Eichel and Reinhart are second overall picks and among the league's more talented young players.

Kane is one of the league's better power wingers.

Kulikov and Bogosian are in their prime and were solid top-four defencemen before they came to Buffalo.

 

There is more talent in that core than you think.

There is certainly more talent than on teams like the Canucks.

Edited February 13, 2017 by dudacek

[sodbuster]

I am incredibly sick of people trying to turn this into an either-or issue. Murray could have assembled a flawed/incomplete roster AND Bylsma can be under, or inappropriately, utilizing what he has been given. Both of these things can be true. Not a single person on this board has asserted they'd be a Cup contender and 110 point team with a different coach.

Exactly. Its becoming apparent that something isn't right. If it continues to look like this, something is going to have to change, and it's far easier to hire a new head coach than it is to retool an entire roster. Edited February 13, 2017 by sodbuster

[pi2000]

DD is a one trick coach. Good coaches change the systems used to suit the roster they have. Dan is either unable or unwilling to do so.

 

DD isn't asking Jack to dump the puck in every single time he gains the red line and be the first on the forecheck....  but he's asking him to not turn it over at the blue line, either get it deep or move it, don't try to stickhandle through 3 guys every time you gain the zone.   If you have one guy to beat, sure, take a chance sometimes, but not every time, and you better hustle back and defend if you turn it over.    Is he asking the same from Foligno?   No.  He wants him to  dump it in every single time and use his big body to punish the defense.    That's what Gio is talking about when he says all systems are the same... everybody has a role to file, and if one guy tries to do too much or isn't willing to fulfill his role, then the whole thing breaks down.    

 

That said, I don't think it's DDs system, I think it's more so his inability to get these guys to buy in to the roles he's asking them to play.

[Huckleberry]

to be honest if the coach can't make them play his system, as a gm you either trade the players or dump the coach.

and most of the time you dump the coach

[inkman]

This makes me so sad.

Speaking of Vesey, 12 goals and 8 assists in 54 games.

Didn't he have 11 goals in November?